switching to synthetic?


39 replies to this topic
  • goblin127

Posted July 29, 2005 - 02:53 PM

#1

Just wondering when switching from reg. oil to synthetic will the synthetic mix well with the oil that is still left in side? Its mobil 1 that i am switching to. thanx!

  • justicedone

Posted July 29, 2005 - 03:48 PM

#2

Lots of info on oil, if ya search. Way too much maybe to be honest.

just my 2 cents, but I would change it and filter, and do it again after another 300 or so miles. Thats what I did also swapping to M1 Synth.

Runs cooler with full synth :applause:

  • frankstr

Posted July 29, 2005 - 06:39 PM

#3

It will be fine, switch to the synthetic......... :D :D

  • Zeniac

Posted July 30, 2005 - 06:02 PM

#4

Runs cooler with full synth :D


How much cooler does it run, I use dino oil because I change it a lot and felt that the expense of synthetic was worth it. However I live in South Texas and we do see heat in the summer, a cooler running motor is a big plus.

  • goblin127

Posted August 01, 2005 - 04:30 AM

#5

I was hopeing that it would run not only run cooler but would shift smoother also.

  • Captain Midnight

Posted August 09, 2005 - 11:21 PM

#6

Using a thermometer, I found they run hotter. Do you guys know something I don't know?

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted August 10, 2005 - 12:13 AM

#7

I've run Honda HP, Golden Spectro blend, and Quaker 10w40.. Of all of them the Quaker runs the quiestest, shifts the easiest, and is CHEAP!!

Perhapse the cheapest oil I have run in my 650L is no oil at all.. Probably four times over the last 9 years, but I didn't mean to :D. Once was for over 100 miles on a commute. The bike didn't seem to care too much either..

Anyway, synthetics should work fine in your pig. Pigs don't care.

  • roadcam

Posted August 10, 2005 - 05:56 AM

#8

" Perhapse the cheapest oil I have run in my 650L is no oil at all.. Probably four times over the last 9 years, but I didn't mean to . Once was for over 100 miles on a commute. "

Remind me to never consider buying a used bike from you ... :D

  • Jayzonk

Posted August 10, 2005 - 07:47 AM

#9

Quaker 10W40 - is that a synthetic/regular blend?

  • cheff

Posted August 10, 2005 - 01:44 PM

#10

Mine droped 30* when I switched to Amsoil 20-50 racing formula. The change was not as dramatic with Mobil1 or with the Amsoil motorcycle specific oils. Go with syn of any kind, your bike will love you for it.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • LotsOfBikes

Posted August 10, 2005 - 04:46 PM

#11

roadcam,

I'd never sell you any of my bikes. I don't sell them. I'm waiting for the engine on my 650L to crap out on me so I can buy a new engine for it. I;ve been waiting for probably 5 years of that to happen.

Jayzonk, I use regular Quaker 10w40 that you'd put in a car. Non-synthetic. Maybe it is why the bike still runs so strong, so fast. Its API rating is far better than any of the motorcycle specific oils that I ran up until 2000.

  • Jayzonk

Posted August 10, 2005 - 06:57 PM

#12

I'm sold. I'm switching to Quaker State 10W40 when I'm up for my next oil change. By the way, what is the API rating?
Also, what oil would they have used when they built my '05 650L?
Also, is it possible to do my first 1000KM service myself? I think the valves need to be shimmed. Can I do that?
Thanks,
Jason

  • Zeniac

Posted August 10, 2005 - 08:50 PM

#13

I'm sold. I'm switching to Quaker State 10W40 when I'm up for my next oil change. By the way, what is the API rating?
Also, what oil would they have used when they built my '05 650L?
Also, is it possible to do my first 1000KM service myself? I think the valves need to be shimmed. Can I do that?
Thanks,
Jason


The valve adjustment on an XR650L is very easy, no shims just adjust the valve clearance with a feeler guage and wrench. I run mine a little looser than spec, haven't required adjustment since first adjustment when I got the bike. Top end seems pretty bulletproof, I've got close to 11,000 miles on my pig now and other than doing the smog block-off, K&N filter and Dave's carb mods, haven't required much more than standard maintenance things.

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted August 11, 2005 - 04:42 AM

#14

The API (American Petroleum Institute) rating for Quaker state, as well as most oils sold is usually right on the front of the bottle. Quaker's is SL.. The "L" is what tells you how good the grade is. I have some old bottles of Quaker 10w-40 from about 1985. The API rating on those bottles is SF. So in twenty years the grade has gotten six levels better in performance. I don't know how the API tests this, or even grades them. Someone here on TT probably knows this stuff.

A bottle of Golden Specto 20w50 in my garage has an API rating of SG. It is what I used to put in my ATK's.

  • btc20mx

Posted August 11, 2005 - 04:54 AM

#15

is it true your not supposed to go back and forth between synthetic and semi synthetic? has anyone tried the stuff no toil makes?

  • qadsan

Posted August 11, 2005 - 07:30 AM

#16

is it true your not supposed to go back and forth between synthetic and semi synthetic? has anyone tried the stuff no toil makes?



You can switch back and fourth between syn and non-syn or even mix them. API rated oils are designed to be compatible with one another.

The API rating isn't all it's cracked up to be and it's designed for passenger cars as opposed to motorcycles. Your motorcycle's operator manual likely lists an SG rating for your bike and they've done that on purpose. SG oils typically had higher concentrations of certain additives that provided better protection for our bikes. The newer oils (*i.e. SL) are designed for specifically to meet CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirements and they're specifically formulated to get the best fuel economy as opposed to offering the best protection. There are always trade off's when it comes for formulating an oil for a given application. Some of the highest quality oils that offer better protection are not even API rated because their additive packages fall outside of the API rating. Performance motorcycles that are ridden hard and passenger cars have much different requirements for oil and while people can successfully use some of the same passenger car SL rated oils between these two applications, the motorcycle application would be better served using something made for that application.

It's very simple to know how well a given oil is working for you. All you need to do is get on an oil analysis program and it will provide facts as opposed to here-say or speculation.

  • Tubo

Posted August 11, 2005 - 07:41 AM

#17

I've run Honda HP, Golden Spectro blend, and Quaker 10w40.. Of all of them the Quaker runs the quiestest, shifts the easiest, and is CHEAP!!

Perhapse the cheapest oil I have run in my 650L is no oil at all.. Probably four times over the last 9 years, but I didn't mean to :D. Once was for over 100 miles on a commute. The bike didn't seem to care too much either..

Anyway, synthetics should work fine in your pig. Pigs don't care.

I ran QS 10w40 in all my bikes from 1975 until a few years ago when I switched to Motorcraft 15w40. QS 10w40 worked great for me for 20 years. :D

  • Motosprtman

Posted August 11, 2005 - 10:40 AM

#18

just use Castrol 20-50W change it often and ride it.

  • Jayzonk

Posted August 11, 2005 - 12:20 PM

#19

The API rating isn't all it's cracked up to be and it's designed for passenger cars as opposed to motorcycles. Your motorcycle's operator manual likely lists an SG rating for your bike and they've done that on purpose. SG oils typically had higher concentrations of certain additives that provided better protection for our bikes. The newer oils (*i.e. SL) are designed for specifically to meet CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirements and they're specifically formulated to get the best fuel economy as opposed to offering the best protection. There are always trade off's when it comes for formulating an oil for a given application. Some of the highest quality oils that offer better protection are not even API rated because their additive packages fall outside of the API rating. Performance motorcycles that are ridden hard and passenger cars have much different requirements for oil and while people can successfully use some of the same passenger car SL rated oils between these two applications, the motorcycle application would be better served using something made for that application.

It's very simple to know how well a given oil is working for you. All you need to do is get on an oil analysis program and it will provide facts as opposed to here-say or speculation.[/QUOTE]


So an SL will meet fuel economy requirements, but may not provide the best engine lubrication? That's interesting. I would have thought that better lubrication would mean that your fuel efficiency would improve. So a 10W40 SL may not be the best for engine life? What do you suggest??

  • qadsan

Posted August 11, 2005 - 03:37 PM

#20

Jay, lubrication is one thing, but the oil film itself is constantly being sheared down in certain parts of the engine (i.e. gearbox), and the barrier additives are the last line of defense before metal to metal contact. Excluding the additives in an oil package, the oil itself is referred to as base oil and it can’t do the job of protecting your wet clutch shared sump motorcycle engine without the help of additives (detergents, dispersants, anti-wear, extreme pressure, etc). Some additives are optimized for sliding surfaces while others are optimized to cushion impacts and some don't become functional until certain temperatures are reached, and some work better on certain materials (steel or aluminum or bronze, etc) than others, etc, etc, etc. Some of the additives that provide excellent barrier protection under harsh use and for the longevity of your engine (i.e. zinc) were thought to possibly damage catalytic converters if they were high enough in concentration and when zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (aka ZDDP) in the oil reacted with MTBE (a chemical that used to be prevalent in gasoliness), there was the possibility of forming toxic agents like phosphoric acid that would attack the nervous system and these are just some of the reasons why newer oils reduced those additives even though they work superbly in terms of protecting your engine from metal to metal contact.

A car engine is very different than our motorcycle engines in that our bikes share the oil between the engine and gearbox / transmission. Our off road bike engines are also subjected to a wider RPM range, higher operating temperatures, higher transitional and total loads, sometimes increased fuel dilution, more contaminants from being used off road, etc, and the additive packages and base oils that are chosen in JASO MA oils are optimized to take these types of things into account.

An SL rated oil provides good lubrication for passenger cars and or light trucks, but that’s an entirely different application than an off road motorcycle or a motorcycle with a wet clutch that shares the engine and gearbox oil. Reducing friction is the name of the game with the newer API energy conserving oils and different additives and or concentrations or viscosities are used to make this happen, sometimes at the expense of longevity, especially when oil is used in applications that it’s not optimized for.

I can run Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic in our Ford F250 for 5,000 miles and the oil still has life left (plenty of additives, good viscosity, good total base number, etc) and my wear numbers are good based on factual lab analysis. I can use the same brand of Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic in my bike and kill the oil within 15 hours of hard off road use. What I mean by killing the oil is that it will have sheared down to a final 30wt when tested as opposed to a 50wt which is where it started out and my additives will be further depleted, etc, even though I’ve only used the oil for 15 hours in my bike as opposed to 200 in my truck.

Quaker State 10W40 may offer excellent performance & longevity for some bikes and or applications, but just because some people have had good experiences using oil not optimized for this application doesn’t mean everyone will. Your bike may good run for years on this oil and it may in fact be a good choice, but there are likely better choices out there.

The color of used oil doesn’t always mean much and in fact it can be misleading. The only true way to tell how well your oil is working for your given bike / application is to have it tested / analyzed by a lab, or you can simply follow the advice in your operators manual and use any JASO MA rated oil to play it safe. HDEO’s (Heavy Duty Engine Oils) are sometimes also another great choice, but then we get into another topic and I’m running short on time right now. Some oils are better than others, but the key to good life from most bikes is as simple as following the maintenance plans outlined in your operators guide. I also believe from my experiences of seeing numerous oil analyses that good maintenance practices are more important than your choice of oil when it comes to off road motorcycles as long as you’re using a name brand and a viscosity that matches your riding environment & application.





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