Average Running Temp YZ426F


12 replies to this topic
  • CanRider

Posted July 12, 2005 - 05:29 PM

#1

I know four strokes run a little hotter, but I still think mine is running just a little to hot.....and no, I do not sit and let it idle for even more then a minute.
Is there a temp that the manual states? or does anyone know this info?

  • Maximus86

Posted July 12, 2005 - 08:28 PM

#2

probably like 190 F or so

  • grayracer513

Posted July 13, 2005 - 07:17 AM

#3

How hot depends on whether it's moving or not. A 50/50 coolant/water mix will boil at around 270 degrees F under the pressure provided by a 1.1 bar (16 pound) cap. The bike can reach this temperature in short order if you let it sit and idle, and can get right up there at very low speeds, such as when picking through a tricky section of woods riding with little or no breeze over the radiators. At speed, the bike might run as low as 140, who knows?

The exhaust on a four stroke runs a lot hotter, and especially so at idle on YZ/WRF's, since putting them in neutral retards the timing a little more.

If you aren't boiling over, don't worry about it. If you are, start by having the cap checked, and try changing out your coolant to be sure the mix is right. Be sure to use distilled water.

  • BlueRide

Posted July 13, 2005 - 08:28 AM

#4

My 99 YZ400 boils over pretty regularly when I let it idle for a while, its embarrassing plus not too good for the motor im guessing... It seems to happen alot more with the diluted coolant in the bike, I found this out when i boiled alot of it out in the AZ desert last week (110deg) and replaced it with straight non-diluted, it seemed to "overheat" less. Is this bad for the bike running no water in the coolant?
Also, ironically somehow i stumbled into the XR forum and read all 16 pages of a heated discussion of Two2Cool oil additive. Anyone use this stuff? Im convinced by way of that thread it won't cause damage to my motor with long term use of the product, but does it work? My YZ gets SO hot.
Thanks
BlueRide

  • ncmountainman

Posted July 13, 2005 - 10:02 AM

#5

i run a combo of evans npg-r as coolant and 22 cool in the oil (delo-400 30wt)and my bike will idle for 10 minutes without even hinting at overheating ( i was concerned about header damage or it could have went longer i'm sure) this with the stock 1.6kg cap. i'm a firm beleiver in both of these products and find them to work better together than one or the other. as far as damage i used 22c in my wr for almost a year with less than usual wear. :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted July 13, 2005 - 11:11 AM

#6

i boiled alot of it out in the AZ desert last week (110deg) and replaced it with straight non-diluted, it seemed to "overheat" less. Is this bad for the bike running no water in the coolant?

Undiluted coolant is bad for your bike, yes. Don't confuse what I'm saying here; there are engine coolants made that are "ready to use", and those should only be diluted according to the instructions on the label, if at all. What I mean is that any engine coolant which was intended to be diluted, like automotive Glycol based antifreezes, needs to be.

Running straight glycol coolant will raise the boiling point to near 300 degrees, but the problem is that it isn't a good Coolant. That is, it doesn't absorb heat from the engine, carry it to the radiator, and transfer it to the radiator core very well at all. Straight water is actually better at cooling things than any mix of coolant and water is, but it has its shortcomings. A mix between 60/40 (water/coolant) and 50/50 is the best compromise between good cooling and boilover resistance.

If you have persistent boiling troubles, and the bike seems to run OK, check the follwing:
> Pressure test the cap

> Check the radiators for clogging with a heat gun or have them opened and visually checked for flow.

> Check the water pump impeller for erosion.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • ncmountainman

Posted July 13, 2005 - 12:35 PM

#7

the boiling point of the npg-r is 400'f its straight up ethylene glycol(no water) with some other additives to reduce flammability. the cooling capacity is 77% that of straight water,BUT climbs to 120% at the limits of any other coolant due to some kind of molar cavitation or some such thing inside the water jacket,that reduces the amount of water or 50/50 actually against the jacket wall. these hot pockets don't affect the npg-r as they do in water based systems because of the high boiling point. so i'd rather be protected and maybe run a little warmer. :applause:

  • Ga426owner

Posted July 13, 2005 - 12:51 PM

#8

I know four strokes run a little hotter, but I still think mine is running just a little to hot.....and no, I do not sit and let it idle for even more then a minute.
Is there a temp that the manual states? or does anyone know this info?


why do you think it is running hot? Use a temp reducer they work Redline Water Wetter etc...

  • urbandirt

Posted July 14, 2005 - 03:08 PM

#9

> Also, ironically somehow i stumbled into the XR forum and read all 16
> pages of a heated discussion of Two2Cool oil additive. Anyone use
> this stuff? Im convinced by way of that thread it won't cause
> damage to my motor with long term use of the product, but does it
> work? My YZ gets SO hot.
>
Two2Cool works... in the short run only.

The boiling point of Two2Cool according to the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) published (required by U.S. law) by the makers of Two2Cool , is 375 degrees F. Regular motor oil boils around 550 degrees F.

Two2Cool works by boiling off. When anything boils (goes from a liquid state to a gas state) it take a tremendous amount of energy out of the system. This is called the phase-change effect. The phase-change effect also happens when a substance goes from a solid to a liquid.

Once any part of your bike's oiled surfaces (think the hot engine head) reach 375 degrees F. Two2Cool boils taking heat (energy) out of the engine. The vapors leave via the crankcase vent.

This cooling will happen until the Two2Cool is completely evaporated.

What damage can this cause? Think of the bubbles generated in a pot of boiling water. Would you want a bubble (void) of no lubrication to appear between your engine's cam lobe and rocker arm?

Besides being extremely cost prohibitive, I doubt you'll find any professional engine builder out there that recommends putting *any* substance in your engine's crankcase that boils at 375 degrees F.


Here's a warning I've already sent out to other motorsports forums:

==========

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:47:22 -0400
To: moto.org
From: Russell Stephan
Subject: Two2Cool oil additive.

Maybe you guys have heard about this stuff. The web page is completely devoid of any "hard" facts about how it works to cool an engine drastically (like 30 degrees F drastic).

Although the company's owner, one Russell Clay, claims some new chemical with special heat seeking properties is responsible, a review of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals the additive's boiling point to be 375 degrees F. That's pretty low to be in with the oil. Oil usually boils around 550 degrees F.

So how does Two2Cool actually work? The low boiling point allows drastic engine cooling through the well-known process of liquid to gas phase-change when oil temperatures start nearing the additive's boiling point. Lots of energy is removed from any system when a substance goes from solid to liquid or liquid to gas. The venting of the gas to atmosphere happens through the crankcase breather.

The cooling effect is drastic but only temporary until the Two2Cool is completely boiled off from the engine.

Here's the sad part... The owner of the company actually believes he has discovered some substance that by-passes the traditional laws of thermodynamics.

Give him about a week to talk with his various experts and realize the error of his theories. If he hasn't changed his tune by then, he's snake oiling for dollars on purpose.

The science is well-known to those that paid attention in high school physics and chemistry. Don't let Mr. Clay's chemical yammer babble deflect from the very basic idea of the conservation of energy. The energy in must equal the energy out. There is no such thing as disappearing heat. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change form.

If you'd like to follow this complete thread check out www.thumpertalk.com. Go to forums, XR250/400, and look over the topic "two2cool oil additive". It's extremely long, I know. I'm going to try and cull my main points out for further dissemination on the web.

This guy charges an arm and a leg for this stuff. It's pure bogus.

  • NAFLASH

Posted July 14, 2005 - 04:08 PM

#10

wait shit you are supposed to put like bottled water cuz i just put new coolant in my bike and i used tap water when i mixed it....****

  • ncmountainman

Posted July 14, 2005 - 06:14 PM

#11

> Also, ironically somehow i stumbled into the XR forum and read all 16
> pages of a heated discussion of Two2Cool oil additive. Anyone use
> this stuff? Im convinced by way of that thread it won't cause
> damage to my motor with long term use of the product, but does it
> work? My YZ gets SO hot.
>
Two2Cool works... in the short run only.

The boiling point of Two2Cool according to the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) published (required by U.S. law) by the makers of Two2Cool , is 375 degrees F. Regular motor oil boils around 550 degrees F.

Two2Cool works by boiling off. When anything boils (goes from a liquid state to a gas state) it take a tremendous amount of energy out of the system. This is called the phase-change effect. The phase-change effect also happens when a substance goes from a solid to a liquid.

Once any part of your bike's oiled surfaces (think the hot engine head) reach 375 degrees F. Two2Cool boils taking heat (energy) out of the engine. The vapors leave via the crankcase vent.

This cooling will happen until the Two2Cool is completely evaporated.

What damage can this cause? Think of the bubbles generated in a pot of boiling water. Would you want a bubble (void) of no lubrication to appear between your engine's cam lobe and rocker arm?

Besides being extremely cost prohibitive, I doubt you'll find any professional engine builder out there that recommends putting *any* substance in your engine's crankcase that boils at 375 degrees F.


Here's a warning I've already sent out to other motorsports forums:

==========

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:47:22 -0400
To: moto.org
From: Russell Stephan
Subject: Two2Cool oil additive.

Maybe you guys have heard about this stuff. The web page is completely devoid of any "hard" facts about how it works to cool an engine drastically (like 30 degrees F drastic).

Although the company's owner, one Russell Clay, claims some new chemical with special heat seeking properties is responsible, a review of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) reveals the additive's boiling point to be 375 degrees F. That's pretty low to be in with the oil. Oil usually boils around 550 degrees F.

So how does Two2Cool actually work? The low boiling point allows drastic engine cooling through the well-known process of liquid to gas phase-change when oil temperatures start nearing the additive's boiling point. Lots of energy is removed from any system when a substance goes from solid to liquid or liquid to gas. The venting of the gas to atmosphere happens through the crankcase breather.

The cooling effect is drastic but only temporary until the Two2Cool is completely boiled off from the engine.

Here's the sad part... The owner of the company actually believes he has discovered some substance that by-passes the traditional laws of thermodynamics.

Give him about a week to talk with his various experts and realize the error of his theories. If he hasn't changed his tune by then, he's snake oiling for dollars on purpose.

The science is well-known to those that paid attention in high school physics and chemistry. Don't let Mr. Clay's chemical yammer babble deflect from the very basic idea of the conservation of energy. The energy in must equal the energy out. There is no such thing as disappearing heat. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change form.

If you'd like to follow this complete thread check out www.thumpertalk.com. Go to forums, XR250/400, and look over the topic "two2cool oil additive". It's extremely long, I know. I'm going to try and cull my main points out for further dissemination on the web.

This guy charges an arm and a leg for this stuff. It's pure bogus.

dirt ,you've got nothing but a theory. thats a downright slanderous comment to make about a product you've never tested. if what you say is true, i have found it to work for at least 200 miles of hard trail (thats about the longest i've ever gone on a oil change) and when i did change my oil that weekend i had no 22c with me and the difference in heat and clutch feel was noticeable beyond doubt. so if it'll last 200 miles thats fine with me,as far as wear goes after 1300 miles on my wr with 22c upon valve adjustment there were no wear marks at all on the cam lobes or journals and the rekluse clutch after 600 miles of hard use still had the same install gap between the plates(.033") . no clutch wear in 600 miles? the oil has to be staying and doing a better job.i'm getting a digital sending unit that replaces the oil plug and am going to do some long term testing. and dirt if your right i'll be the first one to let ya know,but dude if your wrong you've made one biga$$ crow pie to eat. until then :applause:

  • RC876

Posted July 14, 2005 - 07:56 PM

#12

Mr urbandirt has no first hand knowledge of how two2cool works. I have time and time again offered to explain it to him personally on the phone. He has time and time again refused to take me up on the offer.

This only shows he has an agenda. Now he has resorted in finding other threads about two2cool and bashing the product.

I also have a guarantee that no one including Urbandirt has taken us up on. It has been posted here on thumpertalk more than once.

The guarantee is for anyone who wants to take us up on the offer to come whitness a test with two brand new RMZ250's. if the test doesnt go as we say it will we will give both bikes to you. We do more into detail and offer to let you conduct the test.

Again Urbandirts decision not to come collect the free bikes only goes to show he has an agenda.


Now from a personal standpoint I think his actions are nothing more than a coward and think he is a chickenshit.

Anyone else having questions or concers please feel free to contact us, 863 357 3400 Norman

  • grayracer513

Posted July 14, 2005 - 09:46 PM

#13

I have time and time again offered to explain it to him personally on the phone. He has time and time again refused to take me up on the offer.

You've made that offer to a number of people, wrooster and myself included. We, and others, have responded by asking you a question that you have not answered (one of two, actually): If you will explain it on the phone, at my expense, why will you not do so here?

For reference:

http://www.thumperta...hlight=two2cool





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