Modified XR650 VS. CR500


61 replies to this topic
  • 99wr400

Posted June 06, 2005 - 10:22 PM

#1

Has anyone raced a CR500 against their XR650 (on trails or desert)? My guess is that the 500 would take over with acceleration, but the 650 would have a higher top speed. I was just wondering how the two bikes stack up against eachother.

  • beer_studd_76

Posted June 06, 2005 - 10:54 PM

#2

Has anyone raced a CR500 against their XR650 (on trails or desert)? My guess is that the 500 would take over with acceleration, but the 650 would have a higher top speed. I was just wondering how the two bikes stack up against eachother.


if both engines are built to their limit, the 500 will make more HP. more HP = faster bike.

  • BrettJ

Posted June 06, 2005 - 11:24 PM

#3

I always loved this discussion, I have rode a cr500 quite a few times before and I must say I wasn't over impressed with the power, and yes before I get "are you serious!!" comments the cr500 was in excellent condition with a full fmf system. For a 98 cr500 which had been rebuilt I must say I wasn't overly impressed by it, sure it was fast but when you think this is a 500cc two stroke engine you'd expect more. That and how many times before I have herd people talking them up to be the most unbeliveably powerful lethal bike. I have ridden my 650 with that same 98 cr500 and I’m telling you the 650 is nearly as quick. Sure the 500 has more snap but as far as torque a pull goes the 500 has absolutely nothing on it. While its rear wheel is spinning and he is clutching it up dunes the 650 will just thump straight up them. If you were to put someone like Bruce's XR680 against it I would bet it would destroy it. Small bore 2stroke>4stroke but big bore 4>2.... Here’s a link to an old post about it.... http://www.thumperta...hp/t-78196.html

  • roadcam

Posted June 07, 2005 - 07:00 AM

#4

regardless of which is faster, taking a few fast laps around the old campsite with the CR500 will drive away more mosquitoes than the XR650 ... :)

  • huntmaster

Posted June 07, 2005 - 07:08 AM

#5

Has anyone raced a CR500 against their XR650 (on trails or desert)? My guess is that the 500 would take over with acceleration, but the 650 would have a higher top speed. I was just wondering how the two bikes stack up against eachother.


I've owned both bikes,and each are excellent in their own way but they are like comparing apples and oranges. They really don't compete with each other. The CR is a motocross bike, much lighter and geared 20% lower then the XR. On paper it should acclerate harder...if it can put the power down!

  • BWB63

Posted June 07, 2005 - 11:04 AM

#6

It Say's "Modified" XR650R. Depending how much each bike is "Modified", they can be close in horsepower.
Facts: CR500 64bhp @ flywheel, Stock. XR650R 55bhp @ flywheel, stock. That doesn't look to good once you put what they weigh. The XR650R will hook up sooner but, once the 500 comes to life with traction it will smoke the XR....well for a while. Geared the same as the XR650R the CR500 is faster and will smoke the XR650R.

You can get 70bhp out of a CR500 with reeds and some porting. My XR680cc bike puts out about 72bhp. You hear all these big numbers but, they are from the fly wheel. That comes out to be 58hp at the rear wheel for both bike give or take a horse.

Now the real problem comes when you are putting the whole thing to the test. I can do real well dragging a sand hill against any bike but, on flat ground I am on and off. Some times it come's together and others I flat out suck :D Switch bikes and the one I am on can lose or win. On a sand hill I'll pull the hill and win on either bike most of the time. I think the point is finesse. On a sand hill I can stay wide open, flat out pinned. On the flats I come on to hot, to often and with that much power the front comes up to fast on the XR, on the CR500 the tire (even in second) will dig down faster then the bike moves forward. Now that I have an auto clutch on my 680cc bike I can pull second gear starts (15/49 gearing) much smoother. This will be an advantage and this coming pismo trip should be intresting. I hope to find a healthy CR500 to find out how well I can do. Switch bikes and see if the other rider does the same or better. As for XR650R vs. CR500 on the trail that depends on how good the riders is. Much more clutch work with the CR500 but, I can ride faster, way longer in the tight stuff. I can climb hills better on the XR650R. Jumping the CR500 is just a few steps away from the CR250 and I get scared at 70' table tops with the XR650R. 60' is cool. I have cleared 60' doubles on the XR650R at third gear pinned (a now closed MX track) but, I over cleared once and that was enough to shrivel up the nut sack and say, "no :D more". So, it becomes apples and peaches here. A lot has to do with the mind set of the rider as well as his abilities. I have seen (and have been) a guy not very good but, willing (or doesn't know any better) riding way over his head, do things that should not be done on either bike with that rider and pull it of no problemo :) :D That is what I mean by mind set. The the guy that could but, won't (I am there at times also). I think a XR680 and a CR500AF are bikes that can get along in the same garage :)

  • 99wr400

Posted June 07, 2005 - 02:21 PM

#7

It Say's "Modified" XR650R. Depending how much each bike is "Modified", they can be close in horsepower.
Facts: CR500 64bhp @ flywheel, Stock. XR650R 55bhp @ flywheel, stock. That doesn't look to good once you put what they weigh. The XR650R will hook up sooner but, once the 500 comes to life with traction it will smoke the XR....well for a while. Geared the same as the XR650R the CR500 is faster and will smoke the XR650R.

You can get 70bhp out of a CR500 with reeds and some porting. My XR680cc bike puts out about 72bhp. You hear all these big numbers but, they are from the fly wheel. That comes out to be 58hp at the rear wheel for both bike give or take a horse.

Now the real problem comes when you are putting the whole thing to the test. I can do real well dragging a sand hill against any bike but, on flat ground I am on and off. Some times it come's together and others I flat out suck :D Switch bikes and the one I am on can lose or win. On a sand hill I'll pull the hill and win on either bike most of the time. I think the point is finesse. On a sand hill I can stay wide open, flat out pinned. On the flats I come on to hot, to often and with that much power the front comes up to fast on the XR, on the CR500 the tire (even in second) will dig down faster then the bike moves forward. Now that I have an auto clutch on my 680cc bike I can pull second gear starts (15/49 gearing) much smoother. This will be an advantage and this coming pismo trip should be intresting. I hope to find a healthy CR500 to find out how well I can do. Switch bikes and see if the other rider does the same or better. As for XR650R vs. CR500 on the trail that depends on how good the riders is. Much more clutch work with the CR500 but, I can ride faster, way longer in the tight stuff. I can climb hills better on the XR650R. Jumping the CR500 is just a few steps away from the CR250 and I get scared at 70' table tops with the XR650R. 60' is cool. I have cleared 60' doubles on the XR650R at third gear pinned (a now closed MX track) but, I over cleared once and that was enough to shrivel up the nut sack and say, "no :D more". So, it becomes apples and peaches here. A lot has to do with the mind set of the rider as well as his abilities. I have seen (and have been) a guy not very good but, willing (or doesn't know any better) riding way over his head, do things that should not be done on either bike with that rider and pull it of no problemo :) :D That is what I mean by mind set. The the guy that could but, won't (I am there at times also). I think a XR680 and a CR500AF are bikes that can get along in the same garage :)



When are you going to Pismo? I am going sometime this summer after I get a CR500. Maybe we can have a drag race or two. :D

  • BWB63

Posted June 07, 2005 - 03:01 PM

#8

When are you going to Pismo? I am going sometime this summer after I get a CR500. Maybe we can have a drag race or two. :)



--- A large group of us will be at Pismo (Oceano Dunes SVRA)so far
there are 30 of us that have Reservations for July 28 thru July 31st
but, will be staying till August 1st (don't need a reservation for a
monday or a Thursday) There will be lots of Families, Wifes, Kids,
Old farts. Most are camping but, there are two families that are
staying in motels. There was a large group that went last year and
it was Awesome, I think we were by restrooms by mile marker 3 or 4.
I'll give out my cell phone to those that are going and we will have
radios.....we will get together one way or another! ;o)

Lewis Family (10 or more)
Carl and Kim and Family??
Matt Stamper Family (6)
Gray Family (3)
Lanri and Friends (4)
Paxton Family (2)
White Family (4)
Borynack Family (5)
Mike Stamper Family (4)
Kenny's Family (4)
Mike Reynolds family (4)
Rich Tracy
Mike Powell?

Your name here!

There will be both those that are tent camping and Toy haulers.
Start getting your paddles and flags ready. Sometimes it rains so,
make sure you have a sand tire besides a paddle!

If you want to get Reservations 1-800-444-7275
>
>
>
>
>
> http://xr650r.borynack.com/

Posted Image

  • BrettJ

Posted June 07, 2005 - 03:59 PM

#9

:) I wish I had western Australian BRP buddies :)

  • BWB63

Posted June 07, 2005 - 04:08 PM

#10

:) I wish I had western Australian BRP buddies :D


If they allowed guns I might have moved there :) I would love to ride Australian, dodging rooo's. There are other guy's with XR650R's there according to a guy on the XR650R yahoo group.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • BrettJ

Posted June 07, 2005 - 04:13 PM

#11

lol Yeah as far as terrain goes for riding W.A is absolutely brillant. Some really mint open trails for the 650. I am a member of yahoo but I prefer the tidyness of TT I do browse yahoo from time to time but it just seems 'messy' If you head over to W.A let me no Bruce there's a beer waiting and some good riding spots to go to. I owe you a Brew because of all the info I have learnt from your site :)

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted June 07, 2005 - 07:38 PM

#12

What really separates the CR500R from the XR650R is reliability..

The CR500R has no mechanical weaknesses. It doesn't lose footpegs. It's frame is indestructable (within reason). It doesn't foul plugs. It explodes to life with one kick after a wreck. It explodes to life on a dead-engine drop-banner start desert race, Faster than ANY 4-stroke. It doesn't care if a branch punches out a radiator. It doesn't need an air filter. It will not quit. A true glutton for punishment

The CR500R stock rear wheel HP at sea level is 55hp. Right in the middle of its RPM range (at about 5500rpm). Past that, it falls on its face. At redline, it is putting out under 30hp at the back wheel. You can feel this when you ride it.

So when I'm racing against ANY modern four stroke in a desert race, I have to get on the gas early, short-shift (fight the front wheel down) as smoothly as possible and pass the four stroke(s) before I run out of power. From 60-100mph, I'm losing power, while the Four-strokes are still in the thick of theirs. Plus the F-N CR500 doesn't like to turn.

In 1999, Dirt Rider tested all of the open bikes at the time. The CR500 put out the most HP, followed by the more broadly powered KX500. All of the four strokes were still putting out nearly 40hp (back wheel) at their respective redlines, and they were easier to ride. The Husaberg.. well... it's a Husaberg :)

My number on reason for buying my CR500 was because the local Yamaha shop wanted $7200 otd for a 1999 WR400 (long story).. The CR500 was the second choice @ $6400 OTD with Stabilizer, Pro-tapers, USFS spark arrester, Skid plate... Better service!!! The 650R was just too hard to kick over when cold.

  • Bigmutha

Posted June 07, 2005 - 07:47 PM

#13

I have both bikes in my garage. My CR 500 (which is for sale) is a awesome machine. I bought a new XR 650 because my kids are riding with me now and it is slow going. The XR will cruise and it will flat out rip. The CR just flat out rips. I think my almost stock CR will beat my uncorked XR up any sand dune. I love my new XR, and I ride in the mojave desert where the bike really shines. I wish I could keep both, but ones gotta go. So if you want to buy super clean 500 I have one

  • XR/CRDave

Posted June 08, 2005 - 11:36 AM

#14

I think a XR680 and a CR500AF are bikes that can get along in the same garage :)


I have a piped but otherwise stock 03 CR500AF and a uncorked but otherwise stock motor XR650R in my garage, there was a little bickering and jealousy at first, mostly between the CR250 (gone now) and 500. Now they both know their roles and neither feels threatened anymore.

The 500 hands down is faster excellerating and just plain feels faster but once up to speed the 650 is faster and will cover ground across the desert better than the 500. In the dunes or at the track the 500 is better, though a handful at a track if not careful with the throttle. For guys who like big bores these 2 bikes make a good combo and cover pretty much all riding situations well.

  • miguelitro

Posted June 08, 2005 - 12:25 PM

#15

how will they stack up against my piped pw50 in a drag race down my dirt driveway?
Please this is a serious question cuz my buddy got one and says he is faster than me in the driveway which is the only place i EVER ride.
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hahahaaahahaa love my old big bore two but man the pig is just so much more ridable!!!! I mean come on how many guys go out and drag race, shoot ive only really done it once in a race and lost xr600r(beat to hell) yz450f brand new then past the guy about 3 miles later and never saw him again. drag racing is for drag queens
Mike

  • BWB63

Posted June 08, 2005 - 12:50 PM

#16

If you are out trail riding you may only drag once or twice just to see what is up but, out a Glamis, Sunfair, Dumont and you are looking at a wall of sand it's what makes the run fun. Once you get a few guys that have a few gallons of top quality fuel in there bellies then it get entertaining. Pimso is a great vacation with the family but, truly you can only ride that place for so long...it isn't that big anymore and the dunes are small. The drag strip is where the most action is. They have quads there on nitro, alcohol, bored, stroked, everything. Sand rails with outrageous horsepower, sight windows in the floor board to see where they are going because they are standing straight up all the way down the strip. These guys take being a drag queen to the next level :D I am just a poser, haven't put enough time into it to get it down. Maybe I just don't wear the right outfit.

How long is the driveway :) This sounds like a serious race :)

On the PW50 has he removed the oil injector and is running pre-mix aviation fuel? Does he second gear start and catch you before the street? Wait I bet you guys start in the street :D and race into the garage :D

  • 99wr400

Posted June 08, 2005 - 03:37 PM

#17

I have both bikes in my garage. My CR 500 (which is for sale) is a awesome machine. I bought a new XR 650 because my kids are riding with me now and it is slow going. The XR will cruise and it will flat out rip. The CR just flat out rips. I think my almost stock CR will beat my uncorked XR up any sand dune. I love my new XR, and I ride in the mojave desert where the bike really shines. I wish I could keep both, but ones gotta go. So if you want to buy super clean 500 I have one


What year is it? PM me with the info, and asking price, however I have yet to sell my WR420 (I am waiting for a head gasket so I can re-assemble the top end), so it may be a little while before I am able to buy anything.

  • 99wr400

Posted June 08, 2005 - 03:50 PM

#18

What really separates the CR500R from the XR650R is reliability..

The CR500R has no mechanical weaknesses. It doesn't lose footpegs. It's frame is indestructable (within reason). It doesn't foul plugs. It explodes to life with one kick after a wreck. It explodes to life on a dead-engine drop-banner start desert race, Faster than ANY 4-stroke. It doesn't care if a branch punches out a radiator. It doesn't need an air filter. It will not quit. A true glutton for punishment

The CR500R stock rear wheel HP at sea level is 55hp. Right in the middle of its RPM range (at about 5500rpm). Past that, it falls on its face. At redline, it is putting out under 30hp at the back wheel. You can feel this when you ride it.

So when I'm racing against ANY modern four stroke in a desert race, I have to get on the gas early, short-shift (fight the front wheel down) as smoothly as possible and pass the four stroke(s) before I run out of power. From 60-100mph, I'm losing power, while the Four-strokes are still in the thick of theirs. Plus the F-N CR500 doesn't like to turn.

In 1999, Dirt Rider tested all of the open bikes at the time. The CR500 put out the most HP, followed by the more broadly powered KX500. All of the four strokes were still putting out nearly 40hp (back wheel) at their respective redlines, and they were easier to ride. The Husaberg.. well... it's a Husaberg :)

My number on reason for buying my CR500 was because the local Yamaha shop wanted $7200 otd for a 1999 WR400 (long story).. The CR500 was the second choice @ $6400 OTD with Stabilizer, Pro-tapers, USFS spark arrester, Skid plate... Better service!!! The 650R was just too hard to kick over when cold.


Try getting Eric Gorrs "mo betta" porting for more all-around (including top end) power, and getting a Pro Curcuit pipe. Ask the guys at www.CR500Riders.com about anything involving a CR500, and they will know it.

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted June 08, 2005 - 06:09 PM

#19

99wr400,

Thanks for the link :)

  • stoo

Posted June 10, 2005 - 01:11 PM

#20

My XR680cc bike puts out about 72bhp.


:)

You hear all these big numbers but, they are from the fly wheel. That comes out to be 58hp at the rear wheel for both bike give or take a horse.


Phew! :D

Was a bit gutted when I thought my pig was nearly 20hp down on yours. :D

Reckon I'm in with a chance of 60 at the hoop after the rebuild though. :) :D





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