Interesting read on GM vs Toy

[Wrfrk]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=050518&cat=business&st=businessd8a5np200&src=ap

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Good to hear GM's ranking right up there with toyota... now if we could just get consumers to believe that ?

[JSanfilippo]

-The Malibu is ugly

-The 06 Impala is ugly

-The 06 Monte Carlo is ugly

-The Equinox is ugly

-The new 06 uplander is ugly

-The Aveo looks like a rolling coffin

The only thing chevy has going for it are its trucks (maybe the cobalt). You can have the most bulletproof cars on the market but the won't sell if they look like crap. As much as I like the W body platform, GM needs a RWD car platform other than the sigma. The cancelled the zeta platform to finance and bring their new trucks to market faster and I don't think that was a good move!

[Chevy_Cowboy]

-The Malibu is ugly

-The 06 Impala is ugly

-The 06 Monte Carlo is ugly

-The Equinox is ugly

-The new 06 uplander is ugly

-The Aveo looks like a rolling coffin

The only thing chevy has going for it are its trucks (maybe the cobalt). You can have the most bulletproof cars on the market but the won't sell if they look like crap. As much as I like the W body platform, GM needs a RWD car platform other than the sigma. The cancelled the zeta platform to finance and bring their new trucks to market faster and I don't think that was a good move!

You're welcome to your opinions I guess but I disagree about the first 2 of those, Almost All SUV's are ugly and they sell like hotcakes, ugly is IN these days (look at scions sales numbers) I agree about the Aveo.. but then again which econoboxes arent rolling coffins? ?

As for new RWD cars... The F-body is coming back in 2 years, and if Lutz gets his wish the Impala and Monte Carlo are both becoming RWD again in 08. Theres also lots of rumors flying around about a Chevy version of the GTO platform (badged as Chevelle) that will be RWD.

[JSanfilippo]

As for new RWD cars... The F-body is coming back in 2 years, and if Lutz gets his wish the Impala and Monte Carlo are both becoming RWD again in 08. Theres also lots of rumors flying around about a Chevy version of the GTO platform (badged as Chevelle) that will be RWD.

Sorry bud, but the RWD Monte and Impala (along with the G8, GTO, and some new saturn) were supposed to be on the RWD zeta platform which was axed in favor of bringing the now full size GMT 9?? trucks to market earlier!!! The F-body may still be on though. Do you go to GMInsidenews.com??? If you don't you should, its pretty neat!! ?

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Sorry bud, but the RWD Monte and Impala (along with the G8, GTO, and some new saturn) were supposed to be on the RWD zeta platform which was axed in favor of bringing the now full size GMT 9?? trucks to market earlier!!! The F-body may still be on though. Do you go to GMInsidenews.com??? If you don't you should, its pretty neat!! ?

Zeta's not dead, its still being developed in australia and still will be coming here, they just pushed its arrival back unitl the new truck/suv line is released next year.

This aussie article details some of the plans for the Zeta platform (start reading half way down the page)

http://www.mellor.com.au/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/4A38683013861376CA256FFD0037D93B/$file/GoAuto_enews286.pdf

I do read GMInsidenews.com occasionally, and according to their future vehicle section the impala is still slated to become RWD.

Impala- The Impala is getting a freshen for 2006. A 3.5L (200 hp) or 3.9L (240hp) V6 will be standard, an up level option will be a 5.3L LS4 powertrain (280-300hp). Expect a 6 speed automatic to show up at some point after 2007. Exterior design will be underwealming, but look for GM's best selling sedan to get a a much improved interior, and a back seat with a twist. It is also possible that the Impala will go RWD in 2008-9.

[big t]

GM and Toyota have something giong on together. The Matrix and the Vibe are the pretty much the same car aren't they?

[Chevy_Cowboy]

GM and Toyota have something giong on together. The Matrix and the Vibe are the pretty much the same car aren't they?

yep, identical vehicles built in the same factory.

Deals like that have exsisted for decades, they've just became more public lately.

Just a few examples

Geo Prism/toyota corrola

Ford Courier/mazda pickup

Chevy Luv/Isuzu pup

Geo Tracker/suzuki sidekick

Theres probably 100 more, I just dont feel like listing them all ?

[Slowmotion426]

Oh man! I wonder how come the 'quality' is so bad for the American made and so good for the Jap made? They were made in the same factory? They musta imported workers for the jap cars? <sarcasm>

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Oh man! I wonder how come the 'quality' is so bad for the American made and so good for the Jap made? They were made in the same factory? They musta imported workers for the jap cars? <sarcasm>

2 words 'perceived quality'

Geo Prism - considered a pos or lemon by most, problem after problem reported by owners.

Toyota Corrola (built on the same line, only difference was emblems) - Named most reliable car ever built by several publications.

?

[Slowmotion426]

What a crock of .... ? You just can't change some people's minds.

[Chevy_Cowboy]

yep, those brand emblems are a powerful thing. Stick a toyota or honda emblem on a steaming pile of dogcrap and you'll have folks standing in line to praise it, yet stick Chevy or Ford emblems on a toyota and you'll have the same people telling you what a piece of American crap it is

The human brain is a intriguing thing. ?

[DethWshBkr]

You just can't change some people's minds.

Interesting you should say such a thing! ?

[COlucky7s]

Chevy, I was once a serious GM guy. I never bought anything except GM stuff. In 2001 I bought a brand new Olds Alero, and I liked the car, and it never broke down... of course everthing else did break. I had it in the shop something like 10 times for stuff like the plastic coming apart, seals leaking, stuff like that. I personally think that GM is reliable, but not built well. I now own a 92 Toyota Camry with 165000 miles that honestly rattles less and has less wrong with it than my 01 Alero did with 30k. Im now a SOLID Toyota guy. And as soon as they have a big V8, GM, Ford and Dodge can say good bye. ?

GM isnt bad, but Toyota is just way way better.

[DethWshBkr]

Yammyman - you're WRONG.

You just PERCIEVED the quality. Toyotas are good at percieved quality, that's it.

There is nothing percieved about 11 (ok, now 12) recalls, as opposed to 170+ recalls

I didn't PERCIEVE the brakes warping and the door seal not sealing properly on my dad's 2000 1500 Silverado. I WITNESSED IT.

I wonder how many of the Toyota haters have actually spent time CHECKING OUT a Toyota? I HAVE checked out and spend tens of thousands of miles in ALL KINDS of GM and FORD models.

But I guess I just imagined the higher quality in all the Toyotas I've ever driven in. ?

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Yammyman - you're WRONG.

You just PERCIEVED the quality. Toyotas are good at percieved quality, that's it.

There is nothing percieved about 11 (ok, now 12) recalls, as opposed to 170+ recalls

I didn't PERCIEVE the brakes warping and the door seal not sealing properly on my dad's 2000 1500 Silverado. I WITNESSED IT.

I wonder how many of the Toyota haters have actually spent time CHECKING OUT a Toyota? I HAVE checked out and spend tens of thousands of miles in ALL KINDS of GM and FORD models.

But I guess I just imagined the higher quality in all the Toyotas I've ever driven in.

I'm not sure who you're calling toyota haters, I've said several times that I like toyota and that they're good vehicles, I just wont buy them over GM as long as GM is building as good of vehicles.

If you're having trouble believing the percieved quality issue, perhaps you could try explaining how 2 cars built by the same workers, on the same assembly line in the same building can get 2 entirely different reputations by the public? I've yet to hear anyone come up with a good response to that.

People (including youself) have gotten the idea that toy's crap dont stink stuck in their head and just wont let it go even when shown evidence to the contrary. ?

[DethWshBkr]

Same people, same factory.

But with perhaps different methods of construction? Different materials?

Why is it, some Hershey bars people love, yet others people don't like? They're made in the same plant, by the same people, but on adjacent lines with different ingredients.....

?

When I start seeing Toyotas ACTUAL quality dropping, then I WILL re-contemplate Toyota. So GM is improving - GOOD! I still see no cause to want to change - yet.

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Same people, same factory.

But with perhaps different methods of construction? Different materials?

Why is it, some Hershey bars people love, yet others people don't like? They're made in the same plant, by the same people, but on adjacent lines with different ingredients.....

?

When I start seeing Toyotas ACTUAL quality dropping, then I WILL re-contemplate Toyota. So GM is improving - GOOD! I still see no cause to want to change - yet.

you still dont get it. These cars are IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY except for the emblem thats glued on the hood. Theres absolutely no difference in materials or construction. The workers on the line dont even know if the car they're building is gonna be a geo or a toyota until it gets emblems put on it.

[WheelsUp]

Geo Prism/toyota corrola

Ford Courier/mazda pickup

Chevy Luv/Isuzu pup

Geo Tracker/suzuki sidekick

Yup. One of the less obvious was the Geo Storm/Isuzu Stylus. There were some major styling changes to the front end of the Geo so parts commonality was not 100%. Everything in front of the radiator was changed.

The Ford/Mazda relationship continued with the Ranger also being a clone of the larger Mazda (still a B2000?).

Everytime I see a Colorado/Canyon I can't help but think it's a Tacoma, but a closer look shows that the only thing common is the stupid squared-off fenders ?

A lot of people used to claim that the Tundra body was built by Ford... probably compounded by the fact that Ford has a plant in Ft. Wayne, and the Tundra is indeed built in Indiana... I guess some people think that "flyover states" only consist of one city ?)

[Chevy_Cowboy]

Yup. One of the less obvious was the Geo Storm/Isuzu Stylus. There were some major styling changes to the front end of the Geo so parts commonality was not 100%. Everything in front of the radiator was changed.

The Ford/Mazda relationship continued with the Ranger also being a clone of the larger Mazda (still a B2000?).

Everytime I see a Colorado/Canyon I can't help but think it's a Tacoma, but a closer look shows that the only thing common is the stupid squared-off fenders ?

A lot of people used to claim that the Tundra body was built by Ford... probably compounded by the fact that Ford has a plant in Ft. Wayne, and the Tundra is indeed built in Indiana... I guess some people think that "flyover states" only consist of one city ?)

hmm I thought the storm was a suzuki, maybe it was isuzu. Some of these pairs did have some pretty extensive differences on the body trim but several (like the prism/corrolla) were completly identical.

You're right about the ranger, the B3000 and the ranger are the same truck too, I'm not sure if thats still true on the latest models or not.

And the Colorado is much better lookin than a tacoma