wr450f 2004 want more traction


28 replies to this topic
  • alexrobinson

Posted May 09, 2005 - 11:39 PM

#1

I have a Yamaha WR450F 2004 model UK model. Don't get me wrong I love the bike and love the power but I am looking for a way to get more traction, if it isn't possible then no worries I can keep up with everyone I ride with and handle the power, just looking for a way to get more traction.

I notice that when I ride slow,tricky, slippery, rocky, trials type hill climbs with my mates, I loose traction really easy. I run a 13 tooth front sprocket and a standard 50 tooth rear and ride everything technical in second gear covering and slipping the clutch to get traction. I can manage to do the climbs no problem, but I can't help but notice that when I follow guys on KTM 450's they are getting better traction than me, with the same tyres etc.(same observation following guys on XR400's, I am not comparing a WR to an XR it's just an observation that they do find loads of traction) Also have the same on slippy, fresh grass hill climbs or muddy climbs when I am shifting to 3rd and 4th gears just to get traction.

I love the bike and the power, anyone got any suggestions? I thought about a flywheel weight, although I am fairly sure the WR already has a flywheel weight as standard.

If anyone has any suggestions without sarcastic remarks like, "learn to ride, ride faster or buy an XR if you can't handle the power" I would much appreciate it.

Cheers, Alex Robinson

  • simon@vic

Posted May 09, 2005 - 11:43 PM

#2

i can find traction no problem on my 450 even with the z cam....
cant be too technical if your riding it in 2nd 13/50. you should see some of the goat trails we ride her :) .

  • Indy_WR450

Posted May 10, 2005 - 03:21 AM

#3

Get yourself a Vortex X10 ignition that has our plugs and is a snap to install. They have a traction setting that really works well if the bike is difficult to control with the stock CDI. :D

http://www.vortex-pe...m.au/prod02.htm

It is the hot set up if you have the dough $400. US funds! It comes with a switch to quickly change from 2 settings. :) Many people have forgot what a good CDI map can do for a bike ever since bikes have gone away form mechanical ignition timing. :)

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  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 04:20 AM

#4

Hi Indy WR450 thank you for the info on Vortex CDI units. I have just had a look at the website and it sounds and looks quality. Will have to save up a little because your $400 US will probably end up costing me $600 US here in the UK. Cheers for the advise, do you think a heavier flywheel weight would be a more cost effective option? or stick to the Vortex solution when I can afford it?

Many thanks, Alex Robinson

  • CISCO

Posted May 10, 2005 - 05:03 AM

#5

Your sprocket selection is not going to give you better traction. The power output of your 450 will spin the nobs off any tire with that gearing. I run as tall of gearing as possible for the conditions I ride, run a 120 or 140 (tall) rear tire and gain a steady throttle hand. USE THE CLUTCH. Dont gear to eliminate the use of the clutch. You will suffer when you roll on the power. and you are seeing evidence of that. 120/100/18 Maxxis is a good traction tire.

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 05:39 AM

#6

Cheers for the advise, I run a 13 tooth front sprocket so that I can ride all technical stuff in second gear with clutch use, with the standard 14 tooth I have to run technical stuff in first gear, can't pull second so it really spins, that why I changed to the 13 tooth front sprocket (I do loose some top speed, but it's fast enough on the 13/50 gearing) I use the same tires as my mates Michelin AC10 110/100/18 because it is the most aggresive pattern that is Road Legal and "E" Marked that we can use legaly here in England on the Trails, although the AC10 is not allowed in Enduros because of the motocross tread pattern.

Indy WR450 has suggested a Vortex CDI unit and it sounds really good!! although costs the equivalent of $600 US dollars here in England.

I can ride it how it is no problem, had the bike a year now and it's great, the observation was how easily it looses traction in wet, slippery, rocky, technical hill climbs compared to say the KTM450.

Cheers, Alex

  • RNS

Posted May 10, 2005 - 06:32 AM

#7

Have you set you race sag properly? 100mm is what these bike like. I noticed that I had way too much wheel spin if the sag was set around 90mm. I actually have dropped down to 110mm of race sag with 22mm offset triple clamps and had the valving setup for my riding style and the bike hooks up great. :)

RNS

  • banffboy

Posted May 10, 2005 - 06:38 AM

#8

Have you set you race sag properly? 100mm is what these bike like. I noticed that I had way too much wheel spin if the sag was set around 90mm. I actually have dropped down to 110mm of race sag with 22mm offset triple clamps and had the valving setup for my riding style and the bike hooks up great. :)

RNS


What he said! Try working on your suspension. Little adjustments can make big differences.

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 07:32 AM

#9

Hi RNS and Banffboy, thanks for the suggestions. I have 100mm of race sag at the moment, maybe I should soften it a little like you suggest to 110mm, I will try it. I haven't ever changed the offset on the triple clamps, so I will try that (although I don't really understand why the 22mm offset would make a difference).

Also I have just booked my bike in to the Dyno Centre to check the valve clearances, cos I haven't ever checked them. I will ask the Dyno guy about setting up the valves for different riding styles because that is all too technical for me, same time he is going to do the valves he will Dyno it and check all the jetting settings that I have left as standard.

Thanks for the advise I will definitely try the sag and offset settings and leave the technical stuff to the Dyno Shop booked in for the 21st of May so I will let you know if what he does makes much difference.

Thanks very much for the advice,

Cheers, Alex Robinson UK

  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted May 10, 2005 - 07:33 AM

#10

Alex, The best thing you could do is to buy a flywheel weight. A heavier flywheel will give the bike enormous amounts of traction. I would not recommend spending hundreds of dollars on a different ignition to change the mapping.. Get yourself a flywheel weight, cheap and very effective

Dan... :)

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 07:40 AM

#11

Hi RNS I just realised that you meant Suspension Valves set for your riding style, not engine Valves (Duuhh).

I will try your suspension settings and maybe the Dyno guy will get it running smoother, it's smooth now but maybe he will improve it?

Cheers, Alex Robinson UK

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 07:43 AM

#12

Hi Dan Lorenze, can you recommend any particular type of flywheel weight and what weight to go for?? Have you tried a flywheel weight on a WR450 2004 model? If so which one?

Cheers for the advice, Alex Robinson UK

  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted May 10, 2005 - 08:01 AM

#13

Alex, give these guys a call....

http://www.steahlyof...lyweights.shtml

I had a flywheel weight on my 98, turned the thing into a tracker... :)

  • mmi100sguy

Posted May 10, 2005 - 08:50 AM

#14

if your still trying to run the regular 739s (not the ats) then that might be part of the problem. i took those damn things off after my first ride cause the slip so much. i suggest (if your looking for longevity) the 739at, or if you just want good traction all the time, get some 56's or any other companies medium terrian tire (maxxis it, etc)

  • RNS

Posted May 10, 2005 - 09:03 AM

#15

Hi RNS and Banffboy, thanks for the suggestions. I have 100mm of race sag at the moment, maybe I should soften it a little like you suggest to 110mm, I will try it. I haven't ever changed the offset on the triple clamps, so I will try that (although I don't really understand why the 22mm offset would make a difference).

Also I have just booked my bike in to the Dyno Centre to check the valve clearances, cos I haven't ever checked them. I will ask the Dyno guy about setting up the valves for different riding styles because that is all too technical for me, same time he is going to do the valves he will Dyno it and check all the jetting settings that I have left as standard.

Thanks for the advise I will definitely try the sag and offset settings and leave the technical stuff to the Dyno Shop booked in for the 21st of May so I will let you know if what he does makes much difference.

Thanks very much for the advice,

Cheers, Alex Robinson UK



alexrobinson

The Valving I was speaking of was the rear shock valving and adjusting the race sag/static sag properly will identify weather or not you have the correct spring rate on the rear shock for you weight. The 22mm offset triple clamps I was refering to is the front fork triple clamps. Changing the offset of the tripleclams changes the geomety of the bikes suspension. I opted to add trail in the front of the bike to add stability and increase the turning ability to be more like a YZ (planting the front wheel). I also added 5mm shims to the spring perch in the front forks to control the way the forks fell into the stroke setting up for turns.

Setting up your suspension will be the 1st place to start IMO.

Rember that the WR450 has more torq than the KTM. You will notice with short gearing it will increase the amount of the torq that reaches the ground. More wheel spin will be the result. Additional flywheel weight will help but the 450 is a high compression engine and will create more torq just by design. Slipping the clutch or a recluse auto clutch will help control traction.

The amount of torq these bikes produce is suprising and addictive.

RNS

  • SteveWR450F

Posted May 10, 2005 - 12:37 PM

#16

Heavier flywheel weight should help. Also consider getting a reckluse clutch. Both cheaper than the ignition. But . . . the ignition is sweet. Dirt Bike reviewed highly.

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 01:17 PM

#17

Hi Dan Lorenze, RNS and SteveWR450F.

Just got back in, thank you all for your advice. I will check out the Steahley Flywheel website link. Also RNS thanks for clarifying the reason for the 22mm offset on the triple clamps. How do you guys know all this stuff?? Do you all go to motorcycle wrench school or do you wrench for the pro's??

I will make the sag and offset changes that you recommend, although when I set my bike up for 100mm of static sag it was right for my weight, but I will try it with 110mm sag like you suggest. Also taking it to the Dyno Tuner for him to check all the jetting etc, then maybe consider a flywheel weight, after having given it some thought I can't see me spending $600 US on a Vortex CDI unit, when I can manage the technical stuff as it is and I can keep up with all my mates, although like all of us at Thumpertalk we are all looking to make improvements.

Don't get me wrong I love the bike and the power but I will spending some garage time and some money to get some extra traction. I really appreciate all of your suggestions, will check out the Steahly site now to see what they have for the WR's.

Cheers, Alex Robinson.

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 01:34 PM

#18

Just checked the Steahley website and for the WR450F they only do a 4oz extra weight flywheel? This doesn't seem like much when for other models they do an extra 10oz or 12oz? I wonder if this means it doesn't really need a flywheel weight, surely 4oz can't make that much difference, can it??

Cheers, Alex

  • alexrobinson

Posted May 10, 2005 - 01:53 PM

#19

Just emailed Steahly to see if they think a 4oz would make any noticeable difference or what they recommend.

Cheers, Alex

  • Indy_WR450

Posted May 10, 2005 - 07:07 PM

#20

The WR450 has plenty of flywheel. I would save for the ignition. :)




 
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