Oil Change frequency?

[PNW_XR]

Apparently even GM knows most people change their oil too frequently...

http://www.amsoil.com/news/lubereport6-11-08%20.pdf

They're not the only ones:

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/march_lng_new.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/dec_03_mcfall.pdf

That's not an indicator of how dirty the oil is.

http://www.ultimateoiltechnology.com/oilcolor.html

http://www.filtakleen-usa.com/faq/faq.htm

Different oils break down at different rates, and even the same oil can break down at different rates depending upon riding habits. Why, again, does Honda call for an oil change at 1000 miles on the XR600, and 2000 miles on the XR650L? I'll guarantee it's because the XR600 is designed to be used in severe service conditions, exactly how I'm using my L. 1000 miles it is, for me.

[HeadTrauma]

Yes, the 600 is expected to be used with more accelerating in slower and dirtier environments. I didn't dispute that I suggested that an oil analysis should be done to determine if changing the oil more often than the factory recommends is actually necessary.

[PNW_XR]

Yes, the 600 is expected to be used with more accelerating in slower and dirtier environments. I didn't dispute that I suggested that an oil analysis should be done to determine if changing the oil more often than the factory recommends is actually necessary.

Right, and you also said:

On a side note, I think it's ironic that so many people balk at very frequent drain intervals while figuring that extended drain intervals recommended by the manufacturer must be too long.

I think you have your answer now, and can understand why I am changing my oil at 1000 miles, not 2000 miles. My bike sees 95% dirt. Furthermore, paying $50 for oil analysis on my air cooled dirt bike would be a foolish waste of money. I can change the oil 6 times for that amount of money. Oil analysis, IMO, is useful in determining the health of an engine, but is a waste of money insofar as determining "if" oil should be changed on my particular engine simply because of the number of variables. One of my oil changes may be good for 1500 miles because I rode in a moderately dusty, hot environment. Another may only be good for 1000 because the bike got very hot on a few riding days due to the atmospheric temperature and the slow, exceedingly dusty conditions I found myself in.

[HeadTrauma]

1.) Furthermore, paying $50 for oil analysis on my air cooled dirt bike would be a foolish waste of money.

2.) Oil analysis, IMO, is useful in determining the health of an engine, but is a waste of money insofar as determining "if" oil should be changed on my particular engine simply because of the number of variables.

1.) Why?

$50 is twice what a basic oil analysis showing wear contaminants and additive package costs, BTW.

2.) In this situation, how does the reason for testing dictate the value of information it provides?

[PNW_XR]

1.) Why?

$50 is twice what a basic oil analysis showing wear contaminants and additive package costs, BTW.

2.) In this situation, how does the reason for testing dictate the value of information it provides?

I arrived at $50 because that's what I was quoted for an analysis on my diesel motor. Perhaps there are cheaper places. Why, again, would I want to pay for an oil analysis on my motorcycle? To see if I could extend my oil changes? It's cheap insurance, and not a financial hardship to change it every 1000 miles. I assume it might be eye-opening if I did indeed get an analysis, and it came back saying the oil was not offering protection at 1000 miles, but I suppose that's the risk I take since I'm not interested in doing it. I'm changing it at what I feel is the appropriate interval. I have NEVER, in my life, suffered a motor failure on any of my vehicles. I am religious and diligent when it comes to changing it. What is your point, again?

Edited July 9, 2010 by MountainBear

[Beyond The Pale]

Ah a good old fashioned oil thread.

OK, you two are in your own ways both right.

Does it really matter all that much how often someone changes their oil? I have a feeling that if MB went to a 2000 mile change interval for the last of those 1000 miles he would be worrying about it. If it gives you piece of mind to change it at 1000 miles go for it. I hate riding worrying if the bike is OK.

I would like to do some oil analysis. I don't know if it would really help all that much because I do varied types of riding. Sometimes it's paved/unpaved roads at high speeds. Other times it's insane goat trails.

I do have to say that one mans "extreme service" can be the next guys easy ride. I've been on twenty mile rides that took 6 hours and changed my oil to get the fried clutch bits out. Ever had your fuel boil in your carb? Ya, that's extreme service.

As a side note the Rotella T 15W-40 is now JASO MA certified for motorcycle clutches. They didn't change the oil, they just submitted it for testing.

[brianhare]

Ah a good old fashioned oil thread.

As a side note the Rotella T 15W-40 is now JASO MA certified for motorcycle clutches. They didn't change the oil, they just submitted it for testing.

Really,,,,,when did that happen,i bought a new jug last week,,might have to see if it`s on it,,or old stock...?

B

[Beyond The Pale]

Really,,,,,when did that happen,i bought a new jug last week,,might have to see if it`s on it,,or old stock...?

B

I think it was a few months back when they came out with the new T6 syn. It's on the rotella website where they have an image of all the certifications.

[HeadTrauma]

I think it may have happened in mid/late '09. There have been unverified reports, supposedly in emails from Shell, that it was tested(internally by Shell) and met the JASO MA spec in '08.

What is your point, again?

I suggested that an oil analysis should be done to determine if changing the oil more often than the factory recommends is actually necessary.

I also implied that recreational oil changing is wasteful, which it is.

Since opinions are unlikely to change based on this discussion, which I think has become unproductive, how about an agreement to disagree?

[Beyond The Pale]

I think it may have happened in mid/late '09. There have been unverified reports, supposedly in emails from Shell, that it was tested(internally by Shell) and met the JASO MA spec in '08.

I remember reading something somewhere that the old formulation met all the MA specs except for ash content. Here is a post from the bobistheoilguy.com forum. I can't say if it's for real or not, but since the oils now have the rating I'd say it must be true. The old version of the 15W-40 also had too much ash.

Here is the email from a Rotella engineer that I found on the Shell forums.

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.

All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.

Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore

Staff Engineer

Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.

[PNW_XR]

I think it may have happened in mid/late '09. There have been unverified reports, supposedly in emails from Shell, that it was tested(internally by Shell) and met the JASO MA spec in '08.

I also implied that recreational oil changing is wasteful, which it is.

Since opinions are unlikely to change based on this discussion, which I think has become unproductive, how about an agreement to disagree?

I should be more clear. Do you agree that the XR600 oil should be changed at 1000 miles, which is what Honda calls for? If so, then why is changing the L oil at 1000 miles overkill when I am riding it in EXACTLY the same manner? I seem to be able to find no appreciable difference between the two motors which would indicate that the L is less hard on oil. Lastly, you have not seen any oil analysis on my used motor oil to even come to a factual conclusion that my 1000 mile changes are recreational- the reason you started harping to begin with. I've illustrated why I believe my intervals are justified, while you're just espousing opinion.

[frog13]

Hey....if your eyeball,nose or gut tells you to change oil---change it/filter!.

and if it's synthetic oil,well,it's made in a "lab" and no-one can bash you for giving the swammi's more dough!.?

[Infidel]

I think it may have happened in mid/late '09. There have been unverified reports, supposedly in emails from Shell, that it was tested(internally by Shell) and met the JASO MA spec in '08.

I also implied that recreational oil changing is wasteful, which it is.

Since opinions are unlikely to change based on this discussion, which I think has become unproductive, how about an agreement to disagree?

?

Being logical and factual just doesn't work...........

[HeadTrauma]

Being logical and factual just doesn't work...........?

?

"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

[brianhare]

I think it may have happened in mid/late '09. There have been unverified reports, supposedly in emails from Shell, that it was tested(internally by Shell) and met the JASO MA spec in '08.

QUOTE]

Confirmed i guess:thumbsup:

?

Brian

[TheBigKahuna]

Synthetic, usually Shell Rotella every 1000-1500 miles. New filter every other change.