06 Wr450f


36 replies to this topic
  • Chevy_Cowboy

Posted May 08, 2005 - 09:58 AM

#21

Alluminum is ALL about looks. I think Yamaha is just capitualating to the masses on this one. So many people believe that because the Honda looks better, it must be stronger, blah, blah. I wish Yamaha would have just developed a better steel frame.
There's really no reason for Alluminum. It will not handle crashes or impacts better than steel. Do not believe the hype. Alluminum cracks in situations where steel will dent or bend. Alluminum is not the key to light weight, just look at the KTM's. Allumium frames make the bike harder to work on because the frame is much chunkier.
Yes the frames are stiffer, but who needs that? I think Alluminum is more about benefitting the manufacturer than the consumer. Cheaper to manufacter, more sales.
I'd say, grab an 05 when the price drops because all the ingnorant masses see the Alluminum framed 06 in the magazines and HAVE to get one.



Nicely said :)

Aluminums just a fad, yamaha feels they have to keep up with the joneses (honda, suzuki)

Hopefully they figure out that theres some of us who perfer steel before they lose all our business to KTM.

  • mtrablue

Posted May 09, 2005 - 05:56 PM

#22

yamaha has been working on this for awhile. stephan everts ran an aluminum frame on his works yamaha a few years ago. the biggest question is what comes with it? we now have a frame that carries most of our oil. could an aluminum frame do the same? the heat would be transfered all over the place. hell, it would probably cook the grease out of the steering head bearings the way the first water cooled yz's did. does that mean a new engine design could be coming? ours is pretty dated. just food for thought.

  • woody12

Posted May 09, 2005 - 06:10 PM

#23

wr/yz450 engines may be gettin old but so is a 350 chevy aka 5.7 litre. why fix something thats not broken.

  • Chevy_Cowboy

Posted May 09, 2005 - 06:16 PM

#24

wr/yz450 engines may be gettin old but so is a 350 chevy aka 5.7 litre. why fix something thats not broken.



I've been asking myself that ever since chevy discontinued the 350 lol.


Although the new motors are impressive beasts (400hp v8 that gets 28-30mpg on the highway for example) I still miss the good ol 350

  • mackeymx

Posted May 09, 2005 - 06:20 PM

#25

alum has a much greater heat transfer capability than steel

  • VinnyL28

Posted May 10, 2005 - 06:44 AM

#26

I love my aluminum frame!!! :)

  • JTWR450

Posted May 10, 2005 - 11:56 AM

#27

Aluminum frames do look nice. I bought the WR because is it THE MOST BULLETPROOF liquid cooled four stroke made....PERIOD. The Honda may have this and the KTM may have that, but the Yami will get me home when the others are fussing with valves or some other quirk. Sure, the motor is getting dated, but it WORKS, everyday. If the aluminum frames take more gas away from the tank size, or will hold less oil I want my Steel frame. If Dirt bike frames are anything like mountain bike frames, I will keep my steel frame. Steel is more forgiving on those bikes and rides smoother. There is a saying in the steel frame MTB world....STEEL IS REAL, ALUMINUM IS STIFF.

  • slotracer577

Posted May 10, 2005 - 06:56 PM

#28

we now have a frame that carries most of our oil. could an aluminum frame do the same? the heat would be transfered all over the place. hell, it would probably cook the grease out of the steering head bearings the way the first water cooled yz's did. does that mean a new engine design could be coming? ours is pretty dated. just food for thought.


XR 650's have oil in the frame, which is aluminum. No issues with steering head bearings that I have heard about.

John

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  • JSanfilippo

Posted May 10, 2005 - 10:36 PM

#29

Nicely said :D

Aluminums just a fad, yamaha feels they have to keep up with the joneses (honda, suzuki)

Hopefully they figure out that theres some of us who perfer steel before they lose all our business to KTM.


Lemme get this straight, just because a few people (literally) prefer steel to aluminum Yamaha should keep the WRs as steel framed bikes :D ???? Ya know, you guys b*tch and complain about the "stiffness" and "thickness" of the aluminum frame way too much. I can't see how someone would even consider going orange when the yamis have such a great engine :) . Personally, im glad Yamaha is going aluminum :worthy: , it shows they are looking to make progress with their bikes. The WR/Fs are already superior to the CRF/Xs and going to a lighter aluminum frame is only going to make them better :crazy: . Those who have concerns that the thickness of the new frames are going to limit serviceability of the motor have nothing to worry about if you just take a look of the prototype 06 YZFs ;) . I've ridden aluminum framed bikes and the stiffness really didn't bother me because I am fairly fit :D . those who worry about frame stiffness should think about getting off their fat @$$es and get into riding shape :D . Look, if the Austrians want to keep making their frames from chrome moly... they can do that :D . The Japs seem to have aluminum figured out nowadays, why not use it??? :)

  • Chevy_Cowboy

Posted May 10, 2005 - 10:45 PM

#30

Lemme get this straight, just because a few people (literally) prefer steel to aluminum Yamaha should keep the WRs as steel framed bikes :D ???? Ya know, you guys b*tch and complain about the "stiffness" and "thickness" of the aluminum frame way too much. I can't see how someone would even consider going orange when the yamis have such a great engine :) . Personally, im glad Yamaha is going aluminum :D , it shows they are looking to make progress with their bikes. The WR/Fs are already superior to the CRF/Xs and going to a lighter aluminum frame is only going to make them better ;) . Those who have concerns that the thickness of the new frames are going to limit serviceability of the motor have nothing to worry about if you just take a look of the prototype 06 YZFs :D . I've ridden aluminum framed bikes and the stiffness really didn't bother me because I am fairly fit :D . those who worry about frame stiffness should think about getting off their fat @$$es and get into riding shape :worthy: . Look, if the Austrians want to keep making their frames from chrome moly... they can do that :D . The Japs seem to have aluminum figured out nowadays, why not use it??? :)


Well from the looks of this thread, its more than a few people, seems to be around half (if not more) that perfer steel.

As for aluminum being lighter... as I said earlier thats usually a myth, the aluminum frames are so much thicker that they end up being heavier than the steel frames.

Its a fad to look cool, and IMO it hurts the performance of the bike.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted May 10, 2005 - 11:06 PM

#31

Well from the looks of this thread, its more than a few people, seems to be around half (if not more) that perfer steel.

As for aluminum being lighter... as I said earlier thats usually a myth, the aluminum frames are so much thicker that they end up being heavier than the steel frames.

Its a fad to look cool, and IMO it hurts the performance of the bike.


"First ever aluminum frame on a YZ is 4.2 pounds lighter and stronger than last year’s steel frame."

If all this talk about aluminum being heavier was a "myth", why would yamaha make such a claim??? :)

The frame on the 2-smoke YZ's retained the steel frames kick ass geometry. The stiffness of the aluminum frame provides better and more accurate feedback. I agree that aluminum frames can crack whereas steel frames may dent up, but that is nothing that good skidplates can't prevent!! By 2008 I should be able to afford a WR 450 F :D (woot woot) and rest assured I will throughly enjoy the alloy frame :)

  • Chevy_Cowboy

Posted May 10, 2005 - 11:13 PM

#32

I said usually, apparently the YZ's aluminum frame is alittle lighter... that doesnt nessesarily mean the WR's will be though :)

I'm glad you're lookin forward to the new frame... but theres lots of us who arent. I'm hopeing to find a leftover 04 or 05 next spring for my wife, but if thats not an option I'll buy a KTM before buying an aluminum frame wr.

  • CharlesFP

Posted May 12, 2005 - 05:20 PM

#33

When the aluminum frame comes out, it certainly won't be the end of the world. Al has its benefits too. I just feel that overall, steel is a much better material than aluminum for making dirt bike frames out of, and not just because of the fact that it is "forgiving." I feel that if Motorcycle companies made decisions based strictly on science and engineering, all off- road frames (not sub-frames) would be made out of some type of steel. Unfortunately, the companies have to give their product eye-candy appeal, so they are starting to move towards aluminum. I don't want to hear any more claims that Al is lighter, becuase nothing could be further from the truth. An aluminum frame of the same volume as a steel frame would be much lighter, but Al is much weaker than steel so more of it is required to make a frame of the same strength. Comparing aluminum to steel is like comparing Balsa wood to Maple. Also, aluminum is not very resistant to the kinds of impacts that are commonplace in the offroad world-- errant boulders, drop-offs, and collisions. But, it sure looks cool. It really does have a far more impressive look than steel, and I guess that's all that matters. If Yamaha wanted to engineer a steel frame that is 4.5 lbs lighter than last year's, you bet they could have. Would the masses want it? Probably not.

  • Lowedog

Posted May 12, 2005 - 07:41 PM

#34

When the aluminum frame comes out, it certainly won't be the end of the world. Al has its benefits too. I just feel that overall, steel is a much better material than aluminum for making dirt bike frames out of, and not just because of the fact that it is "forgiving." I feel that if Motorcycle companies made decisions based strictly on science and engineering, all off- road frames (not sub-frames) would be made out of some type of steel. Unfortunately, the companies have to give their product eye-candy appeal, so they are starting to move towards aluminum. I don't want to hear any more claims that Al is lighter, becuase nothing could be further from the truth. An aluminum frame of the same volume as a steel frame would be much lighter, but Al is much weaker than steel so more of it is required to make a frame of the same strength. Comparing aluminum to steel is like comparing Balsa wood to Maple. Also, aluminum is not very resistant to the kinds of impacts that are commonplace in the offroad world-- errant boulders, drop-offs, and collisions. But, it sure looks cool. It really does have a far more impressive look than steel, and I guess that's all that matters. If Yamaha wanted to engineer a steel frame that is 4.5 lbs lighter than last year's, you bet they could have. Would the masses want it? Probably not.



With that theory then I guess Boeing should start making airplanes out of steel. I mean if the same volume of steel is stronger than aluminum and steel is much more forgiving, then a 767 would weigh way far less :) .

If all Yamaha was going for was looks to increase sales they would have had an aluminum twin spar perimeter frame on the YZ the year after Honda's came out. As stated in a earlier post the YZ's al. frame retained the same basic geometry as the steel frame and it's 4.5 lbs lighter. Obviuosly someone was doing their homework :D . Unless you are looking for it the YZ's al. frame is not even that noticable. I don't think Yamaha was going for the sex appeal factor on that one. I also haven't heard any complaints about the new YZ being too stiff or too soft. Seems like Yamaha's research paid off on the first production run.

The fact is steel has been cheaper to buy and manufacture. With advancements in manufacturing technology that is becoming no longer true. Aluminum is somewhere around 40% lighter than steel yet retains around 80% of the strength. If you have noticed the YZ's frame is made from cast parts as far as I can tell, not formed like the others. Casting's are far stronger than extruded materials. Another bonus for al. is that it doesn't rust like steel frames do when the finish gets robbed off.

With all that said, build me a lighter WR and I will buy it :) :worthy: .

:D Lowedog

  • Chevy_Cowboy

Posted May 13, 2005 - 12:32 AM

#35

With that theory then I guess Boeing should start making airplanes out of steel. I mean if the same volume of steel is stronger than aluminum and steel is much more forgiving, then a 767 would weigh way far less :) .



Good point, but yamaha isnt using aircraft grade aluminum, and planes have a massive amount of maintenance (which includes the key job of finding all the cracks and welding them up every 6 months or so)

The airline industry is also quite aware of the fatigue factor with aluminum, it weakens dramaticly over time requireing many parts to be replaced often and eventually the plane just gets retired.

Hows that figure into bikes? Well I guess we'll find out, it may very well mean that after 5 or 6 years the bikes frame is so brittle that you scrap it for a new one or replace the frame. That might not be an issue for racers who replace their bike yearly, but some of us like to keep a bike longer than a couple years.

  • JSanfilippo

Posted May 13, 2005 - 03:27 PM

#36

I see plenty of 1997 CR 250s tearin it up at places where I ride at and each one of the owners i've talked to has not complained about frames cracking. If it really was an issue wouldn't cracking frames be all over the CRF forums??? NO THEY ARE NOT!!! Instead the honda guys are b*tchin about valves :D :lol: :) :D :worthy: :D :D :D ;) :crazy: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :mad: :( :D :D :D :D :D :crazy: :eek: :D :D :D :) :D :usa:
Emphasis on the :usa: :usa: :usa: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I can't wait until I am done with college and I get a WR 450f. Free mods here I come!!! :)

  • jayled

Posted May 13, 2005 - 03:52 PM

#37

When you run out of things to change... change the frame to Aluminum and mess with the engine so much that you can offer improvements over the next 5 years then change the frame material again...
ug...




 
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