ran 650r out of oil, need answers!

20 replies to this topic
  • coulier

Posted May 03, 2005 - 07:31 AM


I had a oil seal fail, and the oil ran out. I shut it down when it was sounding loud. I took off the valve cover and the cam is scored, lifters are very wore. My question is can I leave the cam in and just get new lifters? I would guess no! I am happy with stock, but can I get an aftermarket cam cheaper, will it work with my stock parts? How do I get cam out? Thanks. P.S. very tight budget, just bought bike.

  • coulier

Posted May 03, 2005 - 07:35 AM


Sorry, one more thing. Can I have cam or lifters (fixed) ground or whatever??

  • Mikie1

Posted May 03, 2005 - 07:44 AM


I had the same thing happen (only mine was from a hole in the clutch cover). I just got the motor apart- the wrist pin scored the upper-end of the rod. Cylinder & piston looked great, though.

Now I'm trying to decide whether to buy a new Honda crank (complete with rod & bearings already assembled), or buy a Carillo rod & have my crank pressed apart, etc. In either case, the cases come apart, & will obviously need new main bearings, seals, etc. So, there's really not a good way to do it economically. Errrgghhh!!

  • Desmo

Posted May 03, 2005 - 08:17 AM


Just for kicks

Have you tried just draining/refilling the oil, changing the filter (is the oil full of metal bits?) and starting it up. Maybe...maybe it will run just fine.

You said the top end was very worn. In this case I'd replace both cam/lifters and try to run it.

Of course I'm only suggesting this as you are on a budget.

There is the risk of further lower end damage (might be damaged anyway!), but you may have lucked out especially if you shut it down quickly.

I'd try this if it was my bike and I was on a budget. Otherwise maybe search for an entire used engine... Mike Kay mentioned he has some parts for sale.

Best of Luck with it and let us know how it turns out.

  • coulier

Posted May 03, 2005 - 08:30 AM


Did not find any metal in oil. Cut the filter up and really went through it.

  • justicedone

Posted May 03, 2005 - 08:32 AM


I wouldnt change lifters and not cam also, asking for trouble in my oppinion.

Sorry for the bad news...

It will make your riding that much sweeter, someday... when fixed

  • captb

Posted May 03, 2005 - 10:24 AM


Try to find a used cam and replace the lifters, see if it sounds ok after that.
Someone on here should have a stock cam they would sell reasonable. Good luck.

  • frankstr

Posted May 03, 2005 - 12:14 PM


Sorry about the bad news, Change cam and lifters, there a wear mated item..
Try changing cam and followers and see what happens, But you might want to check the oil pump and clean the down tube screen....

  • August

Posted May 03, 2005 - 01:23 PM


When you guys are talking about lifters...are you reffereing to the rocker arms?

  • BWB63

Posted May 03, 2005 - 03:37 PM


Some crazy stuff flying around. It is a great excuse to build a new motor but, if you don't want to, have no metal in the oil or filter and are asking if you have to rebiuld, then check the valve clearance. The intake get tighter as you use this bike (has hard-faced intake valves) but, if the exhuast valves have gone way loose (a sign that the cam was scorched) then I would rebuild. With the double oil pump that the XR650R has it will keep a small amount of oil pumping through the bike for some time. If you cought it soon you will be fine.

Thoughts about the XR650R:
Stock cam is way mild to meat AQMD (and CARB) standards. The XR's of the 80's~early 90's had a way more agressive profile. There is tons of room to make this bike more reliable and have more horsepower at the same time. The stock intake valves are the weekest link and dish fast on the XR650R. Stainless steel KIBBLE WHITE VALVE & VALVE SPRING KITS can make the bike last a whole lot longer. The cam chain is the next week link in this bike. There are no lifters: it's a overhead cam that runs the valves by rockers. A mid cam will add torque/horsepower from the bottom to the top, With most of the added power mid rpm and upwards. If you tear the BRP apart go with an HRC cam chain and if the cam is put in right the bike will be more reliable then stock. The Rod is the next week link, there has been lots of small end of the rod that go south in the dirt bike (mostly not reusable for a rebiuld) and more big ends going bad on the Motard bikes. A Carrillo (a carrillo is rebiuldable) or Falicon connecting rod is a sure fix and will allow the bike to rev. harder longer.
I have been hearing about going after market on the XR650R will hurt it's reliability, this is just not true. Not knowing the right clearances for the after market parts can really make the engine short lived. I would always suggest that you go with a HRC cam chain and stailess steel valves for any rebiuld, this would make the bike more reliable. :) A rebuild is going to cost you if you do it. How idi you know the top end is worn? Is it apart?

There are lots of after market fix's for the XR650R. The Foot peg fix, Thermostat fix, using auto part wheel bearings, Pumper carbuetor, greasing the suspension and steering head bearings all make the BRP more reliable.

I do not think my 680cc BRP is less reliable then it was stock.
All About the XR650R CLICK HERE :D

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  • Desmo

Posted May 03, 2005 - 05:23 PM


Yeah I was talking about the rocker arms, not the "lifters".

I was just reverting back to my old V8 hot rod lingo without thinking.

Sounds like the man to listen to is Borynack!

I'm sure that quadsan will chime in too, watch for his post.

Good luck with it!

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted May 03, 2005 - 05:32 PM


I'm with Desmo.. I have run my 650L out of oil totally twice. Last time was about 2 years ago, no engine works since.. Of course I was running regular Quaker State 10w-40.

Put your bike back together, put some Quaker 20w-50 in and see if it runs okay... do a valve adjustment.. You may well be able to forget about having to perform expensive engine work.

If you feel inclined, pulling that chain off of of the cam pully is a chore. You need a special Honda tool to get the cam tensioner off (I fabricated a tool for mine). The cam sprocket bolts are TIGHT - another chore!!! Once they are off, the chain is easy.

I'll repeat what Desmo said: Good luck with it! :)

  • coulier

Posted May 04, 2005 - 02:41 AM


Someone motioned checking oil pump. Where is it? Also what makes it noisy? Is it the wore rocker arms? How do I know if there is valve damage? Sorry for all the dumb questions, I'm not much of a mechanic. Thanks again for all the help here!!

  • coulier

Posted May 04, 2005 - 02:48 AM


Also does anyone have a short list of what parts I will need to get putting in a new cam & rocker arms? Also there was no gasket on the top part of the engine I took off, is this they way they come??

  • BWB63

Posted May 04, 2005 - 05:16 AM


Is it an o-ring in a grove? That is the valve covers and they are reusable. The niose is mostly the rocker arms starving for oil. If you shut it down when the noise started you will not have ruined your engine. The bore should be fine. You did some extra wear on the small side of the rod and cam and rockers took on some wear but, the bike will be runnable. Adjust the Valves and fill it with oil and see how it sounds.

  • coulier

Posted May 04, 2005 - 06:52 AM


I know this sound dumb but how do I adjust or check the valves? I figure I should put in a new cam & rockers. Was happy with stock, but for the price should I get a aftermarket one? Also any key parts I need besides Cam & Rockers? Can I do this job? I can't seem to figure out how to get the cam out.
I know alot of questions, thanks for bearing with me!!

  • Mikie1

Posted May 04, 2005 - 05:27 PM


There is a download of the factory service manual at xr650.com or Pig Pen (I forget which- I'm sure you can find it). As far as other parts absolutely necessary, you can probably get away with just the cam and rockers. If I were you, though, I'd check the top-end of the rod. Just pop the head off, pull the cylinder, remove one clip from the piston & push the pin out. If it's scored, you need a new rod. But from what I understand, lots of bikes keep running for a long time with mild scoring here. Did you look at your oil really well when you drained it? If it had a bronze-metallic look to it, you may have toasted the bottom end of the rod too. If you didn't run it too long without oil, and weren't running real hard when it quit pumping oil, you may be alright.

If you're on a REAL tight budget, then don't pull the head or cylinder- just do the cam & rockers. A stage 1 hot cam is a close copy of the HRC cam, and you can find them for around $130 (maybe right here on TT). I chose to go with all OEM valves, springs and rockers, as that's what they use in the factory Hondas, according to Bob Bell at Precision Concepts. Just make sure you change your oil very frequently, and look for bits of metal in the filter and the screens, and listen for a knocking sound- it will be twice as fast as the valve "tapping" sound you heard. You might get away with it.

  • Max Power

Posted May 04, 2005 - 07:22 PM


You have to pull the sump screen and the oil inlet screen. Because these screens are the first to filter the oil, they will be the ones that will tell you just how far into the engine you will have to go. The "oil filter" is third in line and will show only the smallest particles. Hope you got lucky on this one.

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted May 04, 2005 - 07:57 PM


Yes you can get an aftermarket cam cheaper but you may be able to score a stock cam from someone on the list who installed a stage one aftermarket cam in their bike. It wouldn't hurt to ask. Are you sure the top end is all you damaged? :)

  • coulier

Posted May 05, 2005 - 05:04 AM


Thanks guys for all your input. Got a copy of the manual (big help) I will take off the head and do a better diagnostics.

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