Rotella T Synthetic???


18 replies to this topic
  • Fireball

Posted April 22, 2005 - 04:57 PM

#1

I do construction... and have been on a 8 week overtime job & haven't been able to follow to board lately. Sorry if this topic has been run in the ground already.

Made the switch to Red Cap Mobil 1 a while back. Now, it's gone. I hear people are scared of the new Gold Cap stuff. What are most of you running? New Gold Cap is over $6 a quart & that's a bummer... but I saw Synthetic Rotella T at Wally World today @ $3.40 a quart or $9.98 a gallon.

I value everyone's opinion... what ya'll running???

  • Master Wong

Posted April 22, 2005 - 07:09 PM

#2

synthetic rotella works great in my 450

  • str8away

Posted April 22, 2005 - 07:11 PM

#3

same here...both sides.(crf)

  • grayracer513

Posted April 22, 2005 - 08:41 PM

#4

I use Mobil1 MX4T. I have a hard time considering $7/qt much of a factor when I only use 3 quarts every 10 hours for two bikes.

Nevertheless, I know quite a few people using Rotella T Syn. They like it.

My only concern about it that is that, in general, oils with a larger differential between their upper and lower viscosities tend to be less shear stable than multigrades with shorter ratios, and shear resistance is important where an oil is used in a transmission. A 10w-40 has a 4:1 viscosity differential, while a 5w-40 is at 8:1. I can't say for certain how Rotella's shear resistance stacks up with MX4T's without an oil analysis of a used sample to go by, but that's the reason I don't use it. Someday, I'll find out if it was a valid concern or not.

  • qadsan

Posted April 22, 2005 - 10:03 PM

#5

...My only concern about it that is that, in general, oils with a larger differential between their upper and lower viscosities tend to be less shear stable than multigrades with shorter ratios, and shear resistance is important where an oil is used in a transmission. A 10w-40 has a 4:1 viscosity differential, while a 5w-40 is at 8:1...

This is more true with oils that use VII's (Viscosity Index Improvers) AKA Polymers to thicken the oil as opposed to full synthetics. Petroleum based oils typically start their life at the lower number and VII's are added to make the spread where as full synthetics use very little if any VII's and often start out at the higher number and flow down to the lower number. For instance, a petroleum based 10W40 starts out as a 10W and VII's are added to make the spread to a 40W at temp. The more VII you have, the less base oil you have. The VII typically isn't as shear stable as the base oil, so the more VII you have in a given oil, the less shear stable it will likely be as you already pointed out. A 5W40 full synthetic on the other hand typically starts out at a 40wt or close to it and uses much less if any VII, but flows down to the specs of a 5wt, which is one of the reasons synthetics can be more shear stable.

  • Satch0922

Posted April 23, 2005 - 05:37 AM

#6

man I am not even going there...GreyRacer and I tangled once about oil and he handed my *ss to me LOL :naughty:

BTW...I am using the Rotella in my smoke since the red cap is gone. I did see ALOT of red cap in the shelves at Pep Boys though.

  • vanisland

Posted April 23, 2005 - 08:58 AM

#7

Has anyone used NON synthetic Rotella?
Any issues or problems with NON synthetic diesel oils?

  • grayracer513

Posted April 23, 2005 - 11:11 AM

#8

Qadsan,

I know all that. PAO based synthetics start out with a far better VI than dino oils, very true. But not enough to account for an 8:1 viscosity differential without the use of at least some viscosity index improvers (VII's). Viscosity Index is a measure of an oils ability to resist losing viscosity with temperature, as you stated. The higher it is, the less modification is required to achieve such behavior. PAO base stocks that measure out at SAE 10 at 70 degrees F can remain at SAE 40 at 220 F with hardly anything added. But 5w-40 would seem to call for some VII's, maybe not.

But Shell themselves recommended to another TT member who posted their communication to him that he should not use their 0w-40 Rotella oil, also a full synthetic, specifically because its lack of shear stability made it unsuitable for use in his transmission and clutch. Whether or not this indicates that the shear resistance of Rotella T Syn 5w-40 is too low to perform well or not is unclear, as I said, but it doesn't rule it out either.

And, of course, people do use it, though the ones I know change it very frequently.

I can't say it is or isn't as shear stable as my M1 oil, only that I'm suspicious. Once I see a VOA on a 5-10 hour sample, I'll know more. :naughty:

  • Vetmxrider

Posted April 23, 2005 - 11:30 AM

#9

I have been using the non synthetic 15-40 Rotella T in my 02 YZ426 for over a year now. A friend of mine has used the same oil in his 426 and in his 04 YZ250F with out any negative issues. I change my oil every two rides and I clean/change my oil filter every other oil change. :naughty:

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  • SPUTTER

Posted April 24, 2005 - 08:19 AM

#10

I use the non-synthetic rotella in both my dry-sump and wet-sump bikes. Since I change the oil every 4 hours or so I can't see paying the extra for synthetic. Am I missing something?

  • DigilubeJay

Posted April 24, 2005 - 08:50 AM

#11

IMO...the importance of individual package specifics decreases dramatically when our fluid change intervals increase.
If you are going for extended performance of the fluid, then perhaps all the worry is worth it.

With that, I agree with SPUTTER's logic 100%.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 24, 2005 - 09:50 AM

#12

I use the non-synthetic rotella in both my dry-sump and wet-sump bikes. Since I change the oil every 4 hours or so I can't see paying the extra for synthetic. Am I missing something?

Maybe. I saw an oil sample once of a 10w-40 oil that had 2 hours on it. It tested at 7w-19.

  • SPUTTER

Posted April 24, 2005 - 10:36 AM

#13

I doubt that it was rotella or being used in a normal motorcyle engine. Diesel engine oils are made to last very well - but hey, it's your money.

  • WheelsUp

Posted April 24, 2005 - 10:40 AM

#14

Ditto grayracer.
If I were changing at 2-4 hours, I might opt to save a few bucks and avoid synthetics, however, I would make sure that it is a high-quality JASO MA dino.

And there's the catch-22.

Yamalube, and virtually every other non-synthetic "high quality" dino oil sold at the motorcycle shop costs as much as or more than Rotella or MX4T at Wal Mart. A local discount shop sells Yamalube 4 at $5, 4R at $7, and MX4T at $10. Wal Mart sells MX4T for $7.

I'm running Rotella now. If I think of it, next change I'll save a sample for analysis. I've never run one before... how much oil do I need, how much does it cost, and who should I contact to send it to?

I'm moving to longer intervals on my Tundra with the new gold cap and would like to run a 10k OA as well (I do know of a guy who went 15k and the old M1 5w-30 formula in his Tundra and it was fine, but he changed the filter at 10k).

  • SPUTTER

Posted April 24, 2005 - 11:11 AM

#15

I run synthetic in my street bike, but the problem I have with my dirt bikes is clutch-based contamination. The oil is full of aluminum plate and fiber micro-particles within an hour or two, and I don't see how a synthetic base will change that - so I change relatively often at lower cost - (I would change at the same rate even if it were synthetic) even in my honda with the separate oil chambers, the amount of oil is less than .7 liter per side so BOTH sides contaminate quickly - love that metallic sheen. I forget what I pay for the gal containers of std Rotella oil, but is is a fraction of what I paid for Yamalube, even when bought it in case amounts. I'll tell you what, oil costs add up quick if you ride often as I do, and I can't afford to go without my evening dish of vanilla ice cream smothered with chocolate syrup. mmmm yummy. :naughty:

  • grayracer513

Posted April 24, 2005 - 12:19 PM

#16

I doubt that it was rotella or being used in a normal motorcyle engine. Diesel engine oils are made to last very well - but hey, it's your money.

The Rotella 0w-40 the Shell said was unsuitable for a normal motorcycle was, like the entire Rotella line, a C graded Fleet and Diesel oil.

And the money I spend on oil is somehow much easier to part with than the money require to rebuild an engine. :naughty:

  • vanisland

Posted April 24, 2005 - 07:44 PM

#17

The Rotella 0w-40 the Shell said was unsuitable for a normal motorcycle was, like the entire Rotella line, a C graded Fleet and Diesel oil.

And the money I spend on oil is somehow much easier to part with than the money require to rebuild an engine. :naughty:

The Rotella T that I've seen is 15W-40.
Found this info on the Shell web site about using this oil in motorcylces, maybe you've already seen it. http://www.rotella.c...lt.php?rowid=81
It's less then half the price of the synthetic Mobil 1 Red cap.
Wanted to see if anyone else is using it before I try it, and seems no negative experiences with this oil.

  • WheelsUp

Posted April 24, 2005 - 08:01 PM

#18

Rotella 15w-40 is non-synthetic. The only Rotella synth available in the US is 5w-40. The 0w-40 mentioned above was purchased in Canada... apparently, they can not get 5w-40 (yet?)

  • grayracer513

Posted April 25, 2005 - 09:39 AM

#19

Found this info on the Shell web site about using this oil in motorcylces, maybe you've already seen it.

Good link. I haven't seen that particular piece, but it says nothing new. They covered the need for phosphorus and zinc emergency lubricants, oxidization resistance, and clutch compatibility, as well as this on shear resistance:

Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade.

...and...

Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

More or less confirms what I said while stating that they feel the dino based 15w-40 is a good MC oil. Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 does have the API SL grade, so based on that, and what Shell said here, it would seem OK.

Wheels,
Find a Caterpillar dealer/service department in your area and ask them about doing an analysis. It may be cheaper if you limit what you want tested, ask them.





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