YZ pipe vs WR



22 replies to this topic
  • MkJar

Posted December 13, 2001 - 06:30 AM

#1

Does anybody have any experiance with the YZ pipe on the WR(99)? Would any performance be gained by using this set-up? Thanks, Mike J.


99WR,free mods,WR timmed,renthal bars.

  • mcarp

Posted December 13, 2001 - 08:12 AM

#2

I see you have WR timing. The YZ pipe honestly is not going to run much better if any with WR timing. Tweaking jetting will do more for you, as will converting to YZ timing.

Now if you had YZ timing, I would wholeheartedly say go for the YZ pipe. I played around with all these combo's a couple of years back..a YZ pipe needs YZ timing to make much of a difference. The two together work best together. And you'll see a huge increase in power by using them both together-the trick is to run jetting that matches the setup you're running.

A WR pipe w/ YZ timing runs a little lame on the low end, IMHO. It was also finicky about starting/fouling plugs, but admittedly the fouling problem could have been rich jetting.

Maybe some others will have something to add.
But I would say don't get it unless you're going to YZ timing. Then, definitely buy it along with a stock YZ needle and main air jet. Or better yet, take a few hours and do some seraching on this site for some jetting recommendations for your bike, elevation, temp, etc.

Good luck

Mcarp+

  • YAMAKAZE

Posted December 13, 2001 - 09:50 AM

#3

Well....Yes and NO...Yes the YZ pipe will produce a moderate HP gain, But you also will loose the spark arrester capability. You do not have to switch to YZ timing to get a benifit (I've been both ways), it just would not be as dramatic. If however you are looking for a hard hitting smackdown combination that delivers arm streching super hang-on torque. Look at my signature file. My 99WR is a Fire breathing Dragon. Manual Jetting is necessary to get the most of of the beast. Altitude will play an improtant part as to how you tune your carb. Mine is tuned to operate from 500ft to 2000ft. You will just have to go through the jetting Q topic and ask the appropriate questions for your setup, location and temprature range.

you can e-mail me off-line and I would be happy to assist you in any way I can.

Welcome to the Forum....

Bonzai :)

  • lewichris

Posted December 13, 2001 - 11:12 AM

#4

not to mention the weight difference right?

  • mcarp

Posted December 13, 2001 - 01:03 PM

#5

I see you have WR timing. The YZ pipe honestly is not going to run much better if any with WR timing. Tweaking jetting will do more for you, as will converting to YZ timing.

Now if you had YZ timing, I would wholeheartedly say go for the YZ pipe. I played around with all these combo's a couple of years back..a YZ pipe needs YZ timing to make much of a difference. The two together work best together. And you'll see a huge increase in power by using them both together-the trick is to run jetting that matches the setup you're running.

A WR pipe w/ YZ timing runs a little lame on the low end, IMHO. It was also finicky about starting/fouling plugs, but admittedly the fouling problem could have been rich jetting.

Maybe some others will have something to add.
But I would say don't get it unless you're going to YZ timing. Then, definitely buy it along with a stock YZ needle and main air jet. Or better yet, take a few hours and do some seraching on this site for some jetting recommendations for your bike, elevation, temp, etc.

Good luck

Mcarp+

  • Mr_Toyz

Posted December 13, 2001 - 04:14 PM

#6

I gotta say I disagree with MCARP. I have a 99 WR with all of the appropriate WR mods. My jetting is stock with the exception of an EKN needle in the 3rd postion I believe (check my signature...) I recently put on an 01 YZ header and silencer and I absolutely love it! I ride with two buddys that ride 01 YZ's and I swear to you and so can they, that my bike rocks! REM if he is around the forum can verify.

Incase you dont already know, 98-00 headers and silencer are pretty much the same. However for 01, Yamaha got smart and redesigned the header so that it clears the oil filter. They also expanded the header and core by at least 1/4 inch. Thus more power.

Oh, as for a YZ pipe not having a spark arrestor, this is true. However! BBR and Probillet are both making spark arrestor end caps for the YZ pipes.

I do have a 99 silencer for sale if anyone is interested.

Hope this helps.

Mr T

  • mcarp

Posted December 14, 2001 - 05:48 AM

#7

Toyz-

Interesting observation. My thought is the EK* needle and correct jetting helped more than converting pipes...at least that's how my bike reacted. I would beg to guess if you truly had the stock DRS needle (or whatever it was in 99), you wold see little difference. I assume you had the WR pipe uncorked?

Did you try the YZ pipe with WR timing and stock/near stock jetting? I did, and there was no more power at all, just more noise. It wasn't until I used YZ timing AND correct jetting (EKN #4) where I could tell a difference between a WR pipe and a YZ pipe. And there was a big difference, it's totally a new powerband. I did experiment enough to stand behind my words. So maybe this is a case of "different bikes, different reaction to mods"? Or one of us did something wrong (probably me, you know how excited ya get when you're playing the WR).

Not trying to be difficult at all, really. Not that at all, just curious and wish to give mkjar good advice.

But I do stand firm--if you change nothing but the pipe, dont expect much. Jetting/timing is where the nested power lies. Just like setting up your suspension, one little move is a lot! But again, this was my experience only.

The good news is an EKN or EKR needle is only about $7. Lot's of bang for the buck here.

Oh, Toyz-if you're at lower elevation, try clip #4. You might just think you strapped on a another exhaust system!

  • Mr_Toyz

Posted December 14, 2001 - 03:58 PM

#8

Interesting...Yep I tried the EKN in #4 and found #3 worked slightly better. Interestingly enough I've never run YZ timing. I've ridin other bikes with YZ timing, and have found that the WR timing works better for my riding style.

When I started expirementing with the pipes, I had already changed to the EKN needle. I tell people that ask that when I changed to the EKN needle and then to the YZ pipe it was like riding a new bike, just like it was when I cut the throttle stop and unpluged thestock exhaust.

What I've noticed most going from an uncorked WR pipe, to a 99 YZ pipe and header, to the 01 pipe and header, is that the bike revs much much more freely. Like I said before I love it! :)

Good Luck!

Mr T

  • MkJar

Posted December 17, 2001 - 08:31 AM

#9

Thanks for the advice on the pipe issue. I may have scored a White Brothers E-series pipe for Christmas so the question will be, how to jet it(1500-2500 ft. elevation) and whether to go with the YZ timing? I use the bike to ride back and forth to school and rip the fender and mirror off to ride each weekend. Will the YZ timing be suitable for the street or just a problem? What about engine longevity? Thanks for all the great advice, I hope to be able to offer something to the discussion sometime soon as I've only owned this jewell for about 4 months.

99 WR 400,free mods,renthal bars.

  • mcarp

Posted December 18, 2001 - 05:43 AM

#10

I doubt YZ timing would make it any less street worthy.

I would say "GO FOR IT!". You can always change it back if you hate it.

Jetting is going to be key! You will need to make changes to jetting if you convert to YZ timing and a WB pipe.

I'm hesitant about giving any jetting specs, have no idea where you ride, elevation, temp, other mods, etc. However, I would recommend at least knowing how a YZ426 is jetted, talk to folks with a YZ426 in your area and ask them how they are jetting the carb, and ask if they are having any fouling starting, hotstart, etc problems.

Alternatively, state all you can think of (current and proposed mods and your enviroment), and perhaps someone can give a good recommendation for you.

Also, the BK mod is worth doing as well. Good luck!

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • bobwombat

Posted December 18, 2001 - 10:43 PM

#11

MKJar: although i just sold my 2000 WR400 in favor of a 2002 WR250, i saw this post & had to respond since it's my biggest "pet peeve".

guys spend hundreds on after-market fancy pipes when an outstanding, and affordable, solution is right in front of us all. the YZ 400/426 pipes as you suggest!

after doing the basic freebie mods with my WR timing, the single most significant improvement i did to my bike, performance wise, was putting a 2000 YZ426 pipe on my WR. it totally woke the beast up & i'm looking to do the same with my 250, banking on the same concept applying.

don't forget to jet a bit richer for the freer flowing exhaust. once you've got it dialed in, you won't believe the performance change that you can FEEL. mine YZ pipe was $100 from a buddy who was spending $500 to upgrade.

in my opinion, you won't be disappointed performance or price wise if you put the YZ400/426 pipe on your WR. bobwombat

  • Bill

Posted December 18, 2001 - 03:41 PM

#12

bobw,

I have also wondered the same thing. Is a $300-500 aftermarket system going to make 3-5 times more power :) than a $100 YZ pipe or save you 3-5 times the weight. So I have traded my WR pipe for a YZ pipe. I have been running the E-Series for a couple of years and this spring, will test them back to back.

Anyone want to buy an E-Series :D

Bill

  • mcarp

Posted December 18, 2001 - 06:12 PM

#13

Yep, the YZ pipe is a great bang for the buck. There's just no doubt about that. Fit is perfect, quality is great, and performance is good.
Plus the price is usually "right".

But the E-series DEFINITELY outperforms the stock YZ configuration. Bill, if you switch to a YZ pipe, you'll see what I mean. Using the e-series, bottom end is MUCH stronger, mid range hits harder, and the top end is just a blurr...very strong-but it seems like you go from 6K rpms to 9K rpms in an instant w/ the E-series whereas the stock YZ pipe just revved slower. For slippery conditions the YZ pipe may be a better fit if you lack throttle control due to the extra smoothness.

Still, the YZ pipe is quite a bit more performance oriented than the WR pipe, price is usually low, and definitely a good replacement pipe. But there IS more power to be had w/ the E-series.

However, a bike that is jetted poorly, no matter what mods, will never outperform a well tuned carb. And, sorry, but stock jetting (or needle) just doesn't cut it...you really MUST change the jetting to realize even half of the performance potential of other mods.

I really can't help w/ jetting specs w/ WR timing. Perhaps Mr Toyz can, since he's dialed it in for WR timed. For a YZ timed WR at 1500 feet, I would try the EKP or EKR #4 needle, 45pilot jet, 168 main, and stock everything else, paying attention to the fuel screw (adjust for highest revs at idle, make adjustments when bike is thoroughly warmed up (at least 15 minutes of hard riding).
Any richer than that, you may foul plugs (been there done that at a ride at 2200 feet w/ richer jetting). If it runs a little "boggy" try clip # 3 and change nothing else. I bet this will get you close.

If you want to be adventurous, look at what Taffy is running. I may just try his combo, there's really nothing to loose from trying it. If it doesn't work for me, no biggie just change it back..

I've beaten this topic to a pulp, I'll end by recommending YZ timing to give you power oriented base to start jetting. Unfortunately if you dial in the jetting w/ WR timing, you may have to redo it all if you change to YZ timing. Good luck, and please let us know how this turns out.

Hey, Bill-have you installed those ice screws yet
:)

  • ChR1s

Posted December 19, 2001 - 12:33 AM

#14

How does the sound level of the uncorked WR pipe compare to the YZ stocker?

  • Hick

Posted December 19, 2001 - 01:31 PM

#15

I don’t have a WR, but I ride one on TV…

Actually I have an “uncorked” WR in my garage, my roommate’s, next to my YZ w/ stock pipe.

I don’t have a decibel meter, but I think the uncorked WR is a bit louder, particularly at lower engine speeds.

But that is just my anecdotal impression.

  • Bill

Posted December 19, 2001 - 03:03 PM

#16

Mike,

Why did you go down on the MJ (168) I have been thinking about it, since Taffy has had some good luck with leaner settings.

Bill

No screws yet but, thinking about going to mikes in February

  • Mr_Toyz

Posted December 20, 2001 - 11:22 AM

#17

I agree with Hick on the sound issue. The WR is definately louder at low RPMS. As you go up in the RPM range, it's my feeling that the WR pipe is more harsh, but not necessarily louder.

Mr T

  • Ynahg

Posted December 21, 2001 - 01:15 AM

#18

As you cant see in my signature, I ride a WR (wr timed) with a YZ exhaust. I never tried anaother exhaust but i do use a kind of spark arrestor to reduce the sound level for official national enduro's. With the spark arrestor the bike is less violent than without, which isn't always negative, it's like if you had more throttle control.
My opinion is that the YZ exhaust has an excellent quality/performance/price ratio. :D

By the way...euh I think I missed something about the EKN needle. It seems lots of you with 98 en 99 WR's are using this needle. Could anyone give me some feedback :) , I use a DXM wich has the same profile as the DTM, only one clip leaner.

Thanks :D

  • midlifecrisis426

Posted March 09, 2002 - 01:02 PM

#19

When sound is not an issue, whick pipe maker has the most bang for the buck? Do we always get more for more$?

  • mcarp

Posted March 11, 2002 - 05:56 AM

#20

Bill-

I've lowered my main jet mostly for experimental reasons. Currently I'm running a 165 MJ w/ EKN#4 (also 45PJ/100MJ+BK mod). The lower main seems to make the bike react a little quicker, albeit top end doesn't scream quite as hard as 168 or 170.

I've found quite a bit of carbon buildup on my exhaust ports/pipe, and thought maybe I was a little rich. I do a lot of low-speed riding, this could add to the problem.

Take a peek at your e-series disks...are they real black and sooty?




 
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