Finally out of Mobile 1 Red Cap, what's next...


66 replies to this topic
  • Ga426owner

Posted June 07, 2005 - 12:41 PM

#61

There are differences, but they're pretty minor as I recall. Levels of Zinc and Phosphorus were reduced a little, and are about 25% lower than MX4T, an MA/SG oil. Old Red Cap was a little lower than MX4T, too, but not much. Overall, the way it stands right now, EP looks like a good oil, and more and more people are using it. I don't remember seeing that anyone has had any trouble with it up to this point.

There was some consensus that the oil might yet be reformulated to more closely comply with EPA requirements. If true, that could affect its suitability, but it was only speculation, so you'll have to make of it what you can. My guess is that it's good, but you might want to check the label occasionally.


Thanks GreyRacer - I guess I ought to just try it and see if my trans shifts the same and the clutch does not fade away.... :)

  • John_Lorenz

Posted June 07, 2005 - 01:08 PM

#62

I am fond of castrol ActEvo 10-40 Works great no issues always been a castrol fan

  • DigilubeJay

Posted June 07, 2005 - 06:42 PM

#63

Folks make way to much todo about nothing on these oil issues.
Very few motor oils, INCLUDING those that carry the Energy Conserving additives will make a bike act any differently than another. Only rare occasions with a clutch slip or grab due to oil choice. And even then there is probably another underlying problem that is the root of the slippage or grabbing. (switching to a synthetic after many hours using a dino oil could possibly make a noticible difference, but that difference probably wouldn't have been realised had the synthetic been used from the start)

If you are going to leave your oil in for extended periods, synthetic is the best choice.
And leaving any oil in for an extended period is a mistake.
But no matter what, contamination of the oil is FAR more of a concern than any package specifics. Folks are way too worked up over ppm stats. They need not be.
The metal content ppm is of far more concern. Actually some of the oils today can help those little particles, that came from your gears, live longer lives as abrasives within the closed system.

Pick an oil and change it often. If it makes your clutch grap or slip, change oils...it's that simple.
The man using $1.50 qt. Exxon 10w40 and changes it often will have just as good an experience and longevity as the man using $10.50 moto specific oil.
It's your money.

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  • Vibeguy

Posted June 08, 2005 - 06:58 AM

#64

Folks make way to much todo about nothing on these oil issues.
Very few motor oils, INCLUDING those that carry the Energy Conserving additives will make a bike act any differently than another. Only rare occasions with a clutch slip or grab due to oil choice. And even then there is probably another underlying problem that is the root of the slippage or grabbing. (switching to a synthetic after many hours using a dino oil could possibly make a noticible difference, but that difference probably wouldn't have been realised had the synthetic been used from the start)

If you are going to leave your oil in for extended periods, synthetic is the best choice.
And leaving any oil in for an extended period is a mistake.
But no matter what, contamination of the oil is FAR more of a concern than any package specifics. Folks are way too worked up over ppm stats. They need not be.
The metal content ppm is of far more concern. Actually some of the oils today can help those little particles, that came from your gears, live longer lives as abrasives within the closed system.

Pick an oil and change it often. If it makes your clutch grap or slip, change oils...it's that simple.
The man using $1.50 qt. Exxon 10w40 and changes it often will have just as good an experience and longevity as the man using $10.50 moto specific oil.
It's your money.


Amen :)

  • Vibeguy

Posted June 08, 2005 - 07:45 AM

#65

I received the following reply back from Mobil as to the difference in the new Mobil 1 EP (gold cap) and the discontinued 15w-50 red cap;

"Mobil1 EP 15W50 is even more superior that the red cap 15W50 as it contains 37% more cleaning agents, 36% more anti-wear additives, and 50% more Supersyn additive system to give the motor oil more durability."

I don't have a concern about the additional cleaning or anti-wear agents but want to make sure that additional Supersyn isn't a moly type friction reducer. I'm between aircraft and have a couple of oil sample kits left so I'm going to send a sample of each of the above oils to the lab for analysis for a more definitive report.

Bottom line is that there have been no reported problems with clutch slippage with the gold cap so I think it is a safe bet.

  • DigilubeJay

Posted June 08, 2005 - 05:56 PM

#66

That's what I'm talking about, Vibeguy.
37% this, 50% that...
They are never going to let you know what all of the components of the oil are in the first place. So there may well be an additive, that could possibly behave worse than moly, in it to begin with. Who knows. Seat time is the only way. All else is speculation.

But there is not a big need to worry about moly either. Most all clutches will work just fine with high contents of moly in the fluid. But hey, if you try a high moly content oil and it doesn't work out...no big harm done. The feeling it created won't last past another oil change.
A choice between an oil with questionably high moly content vs. one with zero moly...I choose the moly oil all day long.

Oil refiners trade and barter base stocks and things often. Also, a store brand labled synthetic oil will usually run a few bucks less than the top shelf oils, and may well be the same oil.

I would test for metal content and find out what frequency of change gives you the best bang for the buck, no matter what oil you use.
Searching for an oil that will lower the metal content is a crap shoot as well.
You are far better off providing an economical oil with your own additive if you want added shock load and wear protection. Conventional oils are doing a far better job of targeting specific engine conditions, which they should, but they still cover a broader range of conditions rather than target in on one specific area.
Actually, a plain jane synthetic blend with very few additives would be preffered to use when you provide your own oil additives.

You are far more likely to see a reduction of metal content when you provide the right additive to the oil yourself, and change it often.

  • Vibeguy

Posted June 08, 2005 - 06:26 PM

#67

I asked Mobil specifically what the difference in Moly content difference was from the old oil to the new, big news, they told me that was top secret. I'll send in the sample and find out from an independent lab.....more for a science project than anything else.





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