Finally out of Mobile 1 Red Cap, what's next...


66 replies to this topic
  • MotoGoalie

Posted June 06, 2005 - 10:15 AM

#41

As a rider and lube analyst that reviews app 200 lubricant samples a month I have read many articles on the debate about the motorcycle specific oil vs automobile oils, done plenty of my own research and will offer the following PERSONAL opinions.


Fire Away!


Sounds reasonable.

What is your opinion of all oil additives that promise cooler temps, longer life and giant wiener growth.... :)

  • Ga426owner

Posted June 06, 2005 - 11:00 AM

#42

As a rider and lube analyst that reviews app 200 lubricant samples a month I have read many articles on the debate about the motorcycle specific oil vs automobile oils, done plenty of my own research and will offer the following PERSONAL opinions.

1) The claims by motorcycle specific lubricant manufacturers (and the dealers who sell their products) that automobile/truck specific lubricants will harm your bike are outdated and blatant "fear mongering". Oils like Shell Rotella T, Castrol, Mobil 1 (and others) have an excellent and proven track record in bikes.

2) Synthetic lubricants are superior and out perform mineral based oils in every category except price.

3) The difference between 1000ppm of an additive and 1380ppm of the same additive is insignificant and a marketing ploy. (ppm is parts per MILLION)

4) The majority of bike riders/racers change their lubricant before it needs to be but this is a case where it is better to err on the side of caution. I deal with oil sumps that contain 200 to 3000 gallons of oil, we use "on condition" oil changes, not time based oil changes. For the average rider to spend $13 to sample his or her oil after every ride does not make sense, it is cheaper to change your oil. Remember, OIL IS ALWAYS CHEAPER THAN STEEL.

5) What ever oil you use keep it CLEAN, Keep it COOL and keep it DRY and your engine will take care of you.

6) I have never met anyone who had a clutch that was in good condition, used an automotive oil and experienced slippage problems due to the additives in the oil.

Fire Away!


I agree...and as a former 4R user I switched to Mobil1 in 03 because my transmission shifted a lot easier and lost the notchy feeling after trying Mobil 1.....
I just wish Red Cap was still around - I stocked up on a bunch of cases of it after it was dropped - :)

  • devilsslide

Posted June 06, 2005 - 11:14 AM

#43

Mobil 1 MX4T it is!

  • Ga426owner

Posted June 06, 2005 - 11:31 AM

#44

Mobil 1 MX4T it is!


who carries it ????

  • 02WR426Cali

Posted June 06, 2005 - 12:01 PM

#45

So what is better, Shell rotella T, or this Dino stuff? What brand is that dino stuff anyway?

  • grayracer513

Posted June 06, 2005 - 12:04 PM

#46

1) The claims by motorcycle specific lubricant manufacturers (and the dealers who sell their products) that automobile/truck specific lubricants will harm your bike are outdated and blatant "fear mongering". Oils like Shell Rotella T, Castrol, Mobil 1 (and others) have an excellent and proven track record in bikes.

While the refiners you name do make oils that are suitable for use in high-performance motorcycle engines, they same refiners also make other products for the automobile market which they themselves recommend against using in motorcycles in some cases. For example, Shell states that their Rotella T Syn 0w-40 is not shear stable enough for use in a an engine sharing oil with a transmission. Friction modifiers remain an issue as well, and Energy Conserving oils should not be used with wet clutches.

It was the manufacturers of four stroke motorcycle engines, principally Yamaha and Honda, that asked for the creation of the JASO MA and MB oil standards in order to preserve the availability of oils equivalent to the API SG/SH grades. Their concerns over the reduction of phosphorus and zinc anti-wear additives are as valid now as they were then, and I don't think you could truly say that they were guilty of falling for unfounded fear-mongering.

On the other hand, it is also true that there are a good many oils which simply have never been tested for compliance with JASO that are even outstandingly good in motorcycle engine/trans applications. Shell Rotella T Syn 5w-40 is one. The only trouble is that without the presence of JASO MA on the label, you are left to rely on your own research, or on the experiences of other users.

3) The difference between 1000ppm of an additive and 1380ppm of the same additive is insignificant and a marketing ploy. (ppm is parts per MILLION)

Then again, that's a 40% increase, or a 30% reduction, depending on which way you go with it. Whether that's significant depends on the additive. There are levels of some above which there is no increased benefit (or, carried to extremes, even harmful), but also below which they become ineffective.

4) The majority of bike riders/racers change their lubricant before it needs to be but this is a case where it is better to err on the side of caution.


This usually the case, at least in terms of the level of contamination by foreign material. But in terms of viscosity loss due to inadequate shear resistance, some oils can be degraded suprisingly quickly. I know of at least one oil sample of a 10w-40 that went to 7w-19 in only 5 hours. Most of the good full synthetics won't do this, but those with a very wide ratio of high to low viscosity are suspect. 4:1, such as 10w-40, or 15w-50, seems to be about as good as can be done with synthetic base stocks and no viscosity index improvers. To go beyond that, VII's are required, and they are somewhat fragile. This is the one test result I have not seen on a sample of Rotella T 5w-40. (I'd really like to, too, if anyone has one) But 0w-* oils should be avoided on that count.

6) I have never met anyone who had a clutch that was in good condition, used an automotive oil and experienced slippage problems due to the additives in the oil.

I have. It was an EC synthetic, and the problem went away after he changed oil. More often, I have seen oils that made the clutch "grouchy". That is, the oil caused grabbiness and/or dragging behaviors that cleared up when the user switched oils. None of this happened with an MA oil.

Not firing back...just commenting. Mostly I agree with you, particularly in the assertion that how well you maintain the oil is more important than which oil to use.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 06, 2005 - 12:07 PM

#47

who carries it ????

It's hard to find in SoCal, and it's gotten pricier of late. I get mine at Kragen Auto parts, but I don't know if you have that chain in Georgia.

  • MotoGoalie

Posted June 06, 2005 - 12:35 PM

#48

Mobil MX4t is 7$ a quart at Autozone in CO. Screw that. :)

  • WheelsUp

Posted June 06, 2005 - 04:17 PM

#49

It's hard to find in SoCal, and it's gotten pricier of late. I get mine at Kragen Auto parts, but I don't know if you have that chain in Georgia.

Kragen is also Checker and Schucks.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 06, 2005 - 04:33 PM

#50

Mobil MX4t is 7$ a quart at Autozone in CO. Screw that. :)

That means it will cost you $10.50 to change the oil in your $6000 race bike. What's the problem? :)

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • devilsslide

Posted June 06, 2005 - 04:55 PM

#51

really Grayracer...Kragen carries it? (Mobil 1 MX4T)
I have been having a tough time getting it since AutoZone stopped carrying it earlier this year. I stocked up at Cycle Giant, and have been on the lookout for another dealer.

  • ISBB

Posted June 06, 2005 - 05:04 PM

#52

look at the back of the bottle... Look in the circle that looks like it has 2 circles within it... If it does not say FRICTION MODIFER... your cool... you can grab MOBILE one extended RED cap and grab another oil say castrol high mileage or something like that look at the back of the bottle and you will see what im talking about...

After doing lots of research 3 years ago right here on TT... it was conluded that any oil that doesnt have a friction modifier is kosher to run in our bikes.. :) i just happend to pick mobile one and i will just happen to continue picking mobile one RED cap in the extended life format.. :)

  • grayracer513

Posted June 06, 2005 - 06:49 PM

#53

What will show on the label is the letters EC, for energy conserving. It will appear in the circle that bears the API grade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current Red Cap is Mobil Clean 5000, a non-synthetic oil, not Mobil 1. The current Extended Performance Mobil 1 is a Gold Cap.

  • biznet1

Posted June 06, 2005 - 07:08 PM

#54

What will show on the label is the letters EC, for energy conserving. It will appear in the circle that bears the API grade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current Red Cap is Mobil Clean 5000, a non-synthetic oil, not Mobil 1. The current Extended Performance Mobil 1 is a Gold Cap.

That is correct. I've been using the gold cap and I don't see a difference in performance from the old red cap.

  • WheelsUp

Posted June 06, 2005 - 08:18 PM

#55

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current Red Cap is Mobil Clean 5000, a non-synthetic oil, not Mobil 1. The current Extended Performance Mobil 1 is a Gold Cap.

What is very interesting is that the current 5w30 is not EC. The classic 5w30 was.
You are indeed correct about the current redcap 5000 being dino. 7500 is a blend.

  • MotoGoalie

Posted June 07, 2005 - 05:52 AM

#56

That means it will cost you $10.50 to change the oil in your $6000 race bike. What's the problem? :)


The oil is overpriced as far as i'm concerned. Bel Ray Thumper oil is actually cheaper when I get a case from RMatv. I like the idea of putting the gold cap in even better if it won't cause troubles.

  • Ga426owner

Posted June 07, 2005 - 06:52 AM

#57

That is correct. I've been using the gold cap and I don't see a difference in performance from the old red cap.


My tuner has told me there is no difference between - old redcap and the new goldcap......both synthetic. Can anyone else verify this? :)

  • TimFurryBalls

Posted June 07, 2005 - 10:46 AM

#58

Okay, okay! I hear all this debating back and forth, so now, WHAT'S THE FINAL VERDICT? Can you use Goldcap safely or not? What's the CONSENSUS? :)

  • x2stroker

Posted June 07, 2005 - 10:59 AM

#59

For anyone interested in purchasing Amsoil, I purchase it through www.slicksynthetics.com. They have always been extremely responsive and ship it out quickly. I purchase a case at a time so I don't run out. It's the best stuff out there. :)

  • grayracer513

Posted June 07, 2005 - 11:26 AM

#60

My tuner has told me there is no difference between - old redcap and the new goldcap......both synthetic. Can anyone else verify this? :)

There are differences, but they're pretty minor as I recall. Levels of Zinc and Phosphorus were reduced a little, and are about 25% lower than MX4T, an MA/SG oil. Old Red Cap was a little lower than MX4T, too, but not much. Overall, the way it stands right now, EP looks like a good oil, and more and more people are using it. I don't remember seeing that anyone has had any trouble with it up to this point.

There was some consensus that the oil might yet be reformulated to more closely comply with EPA requirements. If true, that could affect its suitability, but it was only speculation, so you'll have to make of it what you can. My guess is that it's good, but you might want to check the label occasionally.





Related Content

Forums
Photo

First Hare scramble tips by dhend8


Dirt Bike   General Dirt Bike Forums   General Dirt Bike Discussion
  • Hot  33 replies
Forums
Photo
Motocross

Thinking about Yamaha 250... by Arctic Pride


Dirt Bike   Special Interest Forums   Pro Racing
  • Hot  491 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
Forums
Photo

100 hrs on 2014 yz450f, shim valves or replace them? by ttr230rider6


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • Hot  79 replies
Reviews

Yamaha YZ450F 2017 by Chris.GVS


Yamaha YZ450F 2017
  • - - - - -
  • 0 reviews
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.