K&N or foam?


36 replies to this topic
  • beer_studd_76

Posted March 21, 2005 - 04:18 PM

#21

Personally I think you guys have been lucky with the K&N.



after 10 years don't you think it's a bit preposterous to call it luck?

same rings and piston for 20 years? c'mon.

  • cafecb750

Posted March 21, 2005 - 10:23 PM

#22

How is a K&N for Supermoto use? I only ride my XR on the street.

  • TimBrp

Posted March 22, 2005 - 04:07 AM

#23

after 10 years don't you think it's a bit preposterous to call it luck?

same rings and piston for 20 years? c'mon.


Not preposterous, it's an xr, c'mon.

Look at the dyno charts the K&N flows more air, therefore it's going to flow more dirt through. It's simple science. I just think for the location Johnny is in, as I am, a foam filter is best. All the guys out on the trail with K&N's are either letting them dry in the sun or scraping mud out of the crevices in it. It's just my experience, out on the trail. Plus I think foam is easier to clean, dry and re-oil.

Johnny-no the twin air doesn't come with an aluminum backing, and it doesn't seat as good as the uni filter. The uni has a tight fit, almost to the point where it's a bugger to install. I hate doing it but it forms a nice tight seal.

  • SaltyWalrus

Posted March 22, 2005 - 01:54 PM

#24

I had a K&N on my 87xr600 back when I was young and foolish. I feel the K&N used for dirt riding was the reason my motor went soft after 4 years.

Think of it this way: All filters are a filter media coated with a sticky oil. The dirt and dust being sucked through the filter adheress to and uses up filter media surface area. This surface area isn't just the outside of the filter, it is a sum of all the surface area of the media thru it's entire depth. The surface of the filter has dust cling to it first, using up all the sticky surface area. Dust then works its way deeper into the filter, finding a fresh sticky media surface to cling to. The more hours you ride, the deeper the dust penetrates. The K&N uses a thin layer of cotton strands as a media, about 1/16 - 1/8 of an inch thick. The foam filters are about 1" thick and have lots and lots of tiny cells to increase surface area. The greater the surface area, the greater the capacity to continue to filter with loading of the media. The thinner the filter media depth, the less surface area and the quicker it will load up. When the pressure differencial across the filter increases as flow is restricted, you will get short circuiting. This is air/dust finding the easiest path thru the filter, not adhering to the filter media.

In short, K&N's breath more air and I would definitely consider one for road use. As far as off road goes, FOAM, FOAM, FOAM!!!

  • HondaXR650R

Posted March 22, 2005 - 08:22 PM

#25

How is a K&N for Supermoto use? I only ride my XR on the street.


I haven't had any problems with my K&N on the street! :)

  • smashinz2002

Posted March 22, 2005 - 09:11 PM

#26

Dude, the stock foam element will probably protect your engine better, and all you really need to do is drill the airbox cover!!! Then the bike can breathe and power increase will be quite noticeable, but only if you have the rest of the intake system opened up (40mm intake), rich jetting, and opened up exhaust (run the stock headers with the HRC tip). Trust me, don't waste your money on all that other junk, the stock headers are excellent for preserving the immense torque, and fully opened up intake and exhaust tip will improve the mid and top end also.
Funny thing, people think that Harley's are torquey. . hahahaha. give me a break, those people have never ridden a 650R. :)

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted March 22, 2005 - 10:45 PM

#27

Foam stock honda foam at that. I have 3 of em. One in the bike, one cleaned and oiled ready to go and one needing cleaning. Man does the big XR dirty em quickly. :)

  • TimBrp

Posted March 23, 2005 - 04:10 AM

#28

Speaking of headers and mufflers, I finally got mine ceramic coated guys. Looks pissah. I'll be posting some pics shortly. Guys says I can literally grab my header thirty seconds after shutdown. I like the stock filter too. I have four uni's though. I have my own filter clothesline out in the garage. Funny to look at.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • hurricane jonny

Posted March 23, 2005 - 11:53 AM

#29

Who did the ceramic coating? How much?

  • TimBrp

Posted March 23, 2005 - 12:12 PM

#30

New England Industrial coatings in Worcester, MA. Did the header inside and out and the outside of the muffler for $80. Which is cheap. Good quality and finish. Gonna look nice and it's functional too.

  • johnny_jump

Posted March 23, 2005 - 07:13 PM

#31

Funny how there are more K&N filters that race or win Baja 500/1000 than any other filter company combined? I would gander that Baja might have the worst conditions for dust and fine silt than any described in this posting. haha. Factory KTM ran K&N's this year to 2nd overall. Not bad for a filter that doesn't work?

  • rokklym

Posted March 23, 2005 - 08:33 PM

#32

I just got a UNI filter today and have a question. What Oil are you guys using for the filter. I have a K&N Filtercharger kit that I got for my truck. Would that oil work??

  • qadsan

Posted March 23, 2005 - 09:26 PM

#33

No, the K&N oil will not be a good choice for the Uni filter. Use either Uni, PJ1 or Maxima FFT oil. No-Toil oil can also be used with the Uni, but you have to be careful and let the alcohol in the No-Toil oil completely evaporate before putting it in a bag or installing it or else you run the risk of damaging the filter (the alcohol attacks the glue used by Uni).

  • qadsan

Posted March 23, 2005 - 10:13 PM

#34

Funny how there are more K&N filters that race or win Baja 500/1000 than any other filter company combined? I would gander that Baja might have the worst conditions for dust and fine silt than any described in this posting. haha. Factory KTM ran K&N's this year to 2nd overall. Not bad for a filter that doesn't work?

Funny how I’ve read this same thing many times in marketing literature about how there are more K&N air filters that race or win Baja than any other air filter, but I sure haven’t seen evidence of this when looking at various bikes or talking to other racers and or teams. Team Honda sure isn't running K&N and they've been winning Baja races for quite some time now. Look around at the desert races and see how many K&N’s are being used in bikes. Look at all the open wheeled desert race vehicles and see how many K&N air filters are being used ‘without’ pre-filters.

When I called K&N with questions about using their air filters for desert racing, they recommended I service or replace my air filter every 100 miles. I believe the 100 mile figure is something K&N has recommend to their dealers as a number for people who want to use their filters for desert racing.

Our buggy used K&N cone filters and oil analysis confirmed increased particle & SI numbers in dusty environments. Our K&N’s regularly clogged up and we’d loose noticeable power. K&N suggested we use pre-filters. Our numbers went back down and the filters didn’t clog up like they did before.

Our turbo PSD’s used K&N filters and we could visually see fine dust on the intake duct to the turbo. Stock filters kept our intake ducts clean and K&N repeatedly left them dusty. Oil analysis confirmed increased particle & SI numbers with the K&N. Numerous turbo PSD owners shared the same experiences. Some engineers got together through a message board and did their own independent testing, which also confirmed a problem. About a year or so later, K&N redesigned this air filter. Their newer PSD air filter from K&N had more media, was significantly thicker and left the intake ducts clean, but they flowed less than the older style. The old style K&N did flow more than the OEM 1710, but the difference was only within 10CFM.

No matter what brand of air filter you use, it’s a good idea to inspect you air box for particulate and if you’re as nutty as me, then you’ll also be having your oil regularly analyzed which will give you hard evidence of particulate, wear, oil condition, etc.

  • SaltyWalrus

Posted March 24, 2005 - 03:07 AM

#35

All Qadsan's first hand testimony confirms what common sense would indicate. The thinner the filter media, the less filter media surface area, the sooner you will get particle breakthrough.

  • TimBrp

Posted March 24, 2005 - 04:46 AM

#36

Funny how baja racers change their filters at every stop and have professional mechanics to assess their issues. Funny how most baja bikes are totally rebuilt after each and every race. We're in here thinking of the average joe with not that much coin to spend. Qadsan is right on, as usual... :)

  • sportbiker929

Posted March 24, 2005 - 08:32 AM

#37

I just put me a gym sock and spray some of that WD-40 stuff.





Related Content

Wiki
Want to add a kickstart to your XR650L?  Here's how - last post by clc3251

Want to add a kickstart to your XR650L? Here's how


Articles
  • 0 replies
Forums
Photo

2015 XR650L Squeaking noise by Crayjay


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   XR600/650
  • 3 replies
Reviews

Honda XR650L 2017 by Chris.GVS


Honda XR650L 2017
  • - - - - -
  • 0 reviews
Forums
Photo

Fell Off Trailer by usafxr


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   XR600/650
  • Hot  43 replies
Forums
Photo

Wiseco 101MM Spark Knock Low Engine Temps by imandrewparks


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   XR600/650
  • 7 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.