just ordered the auto-clutch


43 replies to this topic
  • BWB63

Posted April 06, 2005 - 08:55 PM

#41

There is so much sticking up for the Rekluse. The bottom line is it does not work under race conditions. I'll say it again the owner over at Rekluse even says it won't work in the XR650R or DRZ400 under race conditions but, then again maybe I can fit cramming on the brakes into my race style or try to figure out where you got that I have the trottle open when down shifting.
If you do not hit the brake to slow the rear tire spin and are above 5000 rpm how long do you wait for the clutch to release? Even with the clutch lever pulled in. Blipping the throttle, hitting the rear brakes, waiting yes, they will are work great! If you have the time....40+mph and you are going to fit this all in 50' with the down shifting and recovery of the hit and pull a left turn off all in this 50' before you have to be WOT? Don't forget your lifting the front end as you come off the drop off. I know I don't wan't to hit the brakes as I come off that.

Of all the people that should be yelling the wonders of the Rekluse it should be me with a fused left wrist that does not work. When racing I would rather have a real clutch then the Rekluse. :naughty:
Ya, it's great for the trail rider, but, it will force damage if you ride hard. :naughty:


This issue only happens when you're running ~5/8 to wide open throttle and you try to down shift from a high rear wheel speed under those conditions. If you're coming off a 4ft drop and you keep the throttle pinned as you come off and all of a sudden you have to shift down a gear or two in 1/10 of a second at a high engine RPM with a high wheel speed, you'll have difficulty doing so unless you wait for the engine RPaM to come down a bit which can take less than one second after letting off the throttle. If you're riding at WOT and jam on the rear brake as you let off the gas, you can downshift even quicker since rear wheel isn't loading the gearbox at that point.

I can downshift from 5th to 1st if I desire and the rear wheel will freewheel if I don't give the bike any throttle. It's like coasting at speed with the clutch lever pulled in. Once I blip my throttle, I'm locked in first and doing this at speed can float the valves and throw you over the bars.

If I'm riding WOT and need to immediately down shift, I jam on the brakes at the same time I'm pulling in my clutch lever while I'm off the gas for a fraction of a second and then rapidly downshift as opposed to rapidly power downshifting at a high engine & wheel speed without using any brakes. It generally takes less than one second before the engine RPM and or rear wheel speed drops enough to where I can blip the throttle for rapid & smooth downshifts. If I try to immediately downshift from a higher engine RPM (i.e. ~6000 RPM) with a high wheel speed without jamming on my rear brake, shifting can be very difficult and gets worse with increasing engine RPM, but it's easily something I can work around, especially riding off road. The hard core motard racers would be way more affected on this issue than the off road weekend warriors or off road racers in my opinion.

It's too easy to damage the gearbox when power downshifting at higher engine RPM with or without using the clutch and rapidly power downshifting the 650r from high engine RPM even with the stock clutch is much trickier than say a crf450r or cr250, etc. Watch the superbikers real close as they end a long straight and scream into a corner. Take note of their throttle wrist rapidly blipping the throttle as they rapidly down shift gear after gear and you'll hear the bike going vrooom...vrooom...vrooom, etc. They're not doing this to sound cool, but to match the engine speed to the rear wheel speed so the downshift happens under minimal load (easier on the gearbox). Mastering the timing of your downshifts while blipping the throttle (engine speed ~ rear wheel speed) will make downshifting easier with or without the z-start and and when you add in some rear braking, you can make quicker and smooth downshifts with a z-start equipped xr650r.



  • beer_studd_76

Posted April 06, 2005 - 09:47 PM

#42

This issue only happens when you're running ~5/8 to wide open throttle and you try to down shift from a high rear wheel speed under those conditions. If you're coming off a 4ft drop and you keep the throttle pinned as you come off and all of a sudden you have to shift down a gear or two in 1/10 of a second at a high engine RPM with a high wheel speed, you'll have difficulty doing so unless you wait for the engine RPaM to come down a bit which can take less than one second after letting off the throttle. If you're riding at WOT and jam on the rear brake as you let off the gas, you can downshift even quicker since rear wheel isn't loading the gearbox at that point.

I can downshift from 5th to 1st if I desire and the rear wheel will freewheel if I don't give the bike any throttle. It's like coasting at speed with the clutch lever pulled in. Once I blip my throttle, I'm locked in first and doing this at speed can float the valves and throw you over the bars.

If I'm riding WOT and need to immediately down shift, I jam on the brakes at the same time I'm pulling in my clutch lever while I'm off the gas for a fraction of a second and then rapidly downshift as opposed to rapidly power downshifting at a high engine & wheel speed without using any brakes. It generally takes less than one second before the engine RPM and or rear wheel speed drops enough to where I can blip the throttle for rapid & smooth downshifts. If I try to immediately downshift from a higher engine RPM (i.e. ~6000 RPM) with a high wheel speed without jamming on my rear brake, shifting can be very difficult and gets worse with increasing engine RPM, but it's easily something I can work around, especially riding off road. The hard core motard racers would be way more affected on this issue than the off road weekend warriors or off road racers in my opinion.

It's too easy to damage the gearbox when power downshifting at higher engine RPM with or without using the clutch and rapidly power downshifting the 650r from high engine RPM even with the stock clutch is much trickier than say a crf450r or cr250, etc. Watch the superbikers real close as they end a long straight and scream into a corner. Take note of their throttle wrist rapidly blipping the throttle as they rapidly down shift gear after gear and you'll hear the bike going vrooom...vrooom...vrooom, etc. They're not doing this to sound cool, but to match the engine speed to the rear wheel speed so the downshift happens under minimal load (easier on the gearbox). Mastering the timing of your downshifts while blipping the throttle (engine speed ~ rear wheel speed) will make downshifting easier with or without the z-start and and when you add in some rear braking, you can make quicker and smooth downshifts with a z-start equipped xr650r.


hhhmmmm. . .

i'll have to take your word for it.

in all my years of riding i've never had the need to downshift at or near WFO.

'course i've never raced motard before either :naughty:

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  • qadsan

Posted April 07, 2005 - 08:59 AM

#43

There is so much sticking up for the Rekluse. The bottom line is it does not work under race conditions. I'll say it again the owner over at Rekluse even says it won't work in the XR650R or DRZ400 under race conditions but, then again maybe I can fit cramming on the brakes into my race style or try to figure out where you got that I have the throttle open when down shifting.
If you do not hit the brake to slow the rear tire spin and are above 5000 rpm how long do you wait for the clutch to release? Even with the clutch lever pulled in. Blipping the throttle, hitting the rear brakes, waiting yes, they will are work great! If you have the time....40+mph and you are going to fit this all in 50' with the down shifting and recovery of the hit and pull a left turn off all in this 50' before you have to be WOT? Don't forget your lifting the front end as you come off the drop off. I know I don't want to hit the brakes as I come off that.

Of all the people that should be yelling the wonders of the Rekluse it should be me with a fused left wrist that does not work. When racing I would rather have a real clutch then the Rekluse. :naughty:
Ya, it's great for the trail rider, but, it will force damage if you ride hard. :naughty:

There is so much sticking up for Rekluse??? Where and how so? This issue of not being able to downshift from a higher RPM will more easily show up on the hot tarmac with sticky tires when power downshifting from a higher engine RPM than on the dirt due to the nature of the riding or even the nature of the bike if the power curve is moved upwards. Saying this product flat out doesn't work under off road race conditions may reflect the way you ride your bike or the level you're riding at if you ride like Pastrana or the nature of your bike or a combination of these. I don't agree with your implication that this product won't work for anyone with a 650r under off road race conditions, but I do agree that it's not perfect for everyone. Most products have compromises and it may not work the way you want it to, but I also think your specific bike will be more prone to this issue than a stock uncorked bike. It takes about one second or less for the engine RPM to drop low enough from WOT before I can down shift unless I'm locking the rear brake while downshifting and then it’s significantly quicker. It's not perfect or immediate, but I think it's quite workable, especially if one can combine braking into the equation. I also don’t stay at WOT long enough to bang the rev limiter as I’m either waiting for the bike to get up to speed while the throttle is wide open or shifting up, down or riding with an RPM cushion below the rev limiter so I can have something extra to work with in the event I need it. My normal riding RPM will likely be lower than yours because of the differences between our bikes, which means I wouldn’t be experiencing this issue as much as you.

Your bike will probably make light of this issue more so than mine because your power carries much further up the RPM scale than mine and your rev limit is also probably significantly higher than mine. By 6,000 RPM, my party is dying down quickly while yours is still in full swing for quite a while afterwards. Your bike probably also has lots of over rev long after mine has fallen flat. Just by the nature of your specific bike, you'll likely be spending more time upstairs in the higher RPM than you would on a stock uncorked bike like mine, which means you'll likely be more prone to this issue than many of us.

If I come off a large drop at speed and I’m faced with an unforeseen immediate left turn (i.e. wall in front) and I’m riding at full tilt, then I’ll have difficulty with an immediate downshift unless I wait for the engine RPM to drop or stab the rear brake before downshifting. My bike doesn’t have as far to come down in RPM as your bike, but I can still make this situation happen again and again and again if I want, but I can also adjust my riding style to minimize this from happening. Every product has limitations and compromises, but the Rekluse came with a 30 day money back guarantee which I gladly would have used if I couldn't deal with it. I'm not riding for prize money or trophies anymore and most of the people I ride with are out for the fun of it even though things sometimes get a bit out of hand when the bar banging begins. In most situations, I really like the Rekluse product whether riding casually or very aggressive. It adds value to the majority of my riding which is why I kept it and would buy it again.

  • BWB63

Posted April 07, 2005 - 04:45 PM

#44

I dissagee. :naughty: I think we have different ideas of what racing is. Half a second is way to long to wait and braking to down shift is out. Fast trail riding or going fast is not the same but, that is just my look on it. Time will tell.





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