sputter and surge after JD Kit and Zip-Ty


63 replies to this topic
  • elton

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:07 PM

#1

I had a bike-shop remove my AIS with the LOWEDOG kit, re-jet with the JD Kit, install the Zip-Ty fuel screw (although the WR was starting and running perfectly).

The shop demonstrated the snappier throttle response off idle when I picked-up the WR -- I also noted it started and idled better when cold and needed less choke idle warm-time.

However, today was my first day to ride the WR after the JD Jetting and Zip-Ty was installed. Granted my son did let the WR tip over easy, on a slow muddy turn; it was on its side for 2 min., as I had to get it off of him (while I was riding my new KTM300Exc). I had to use the "hot start" for the first time in the 330 miles I've owned it.

When I swapped to the WR, it was fine under fast full throttle riding, but quit a few times when stopped on idle, requiring the hot start again -- thus I increased the idle. But later I noticed that when cruising at constant, low rev speeds in 2nd or 3rd the WR sputtered and spattered ("burp, burp, sput/spatter, burp, burp") and surged like a 2-stroke.

Could this be a problem with the newly installed JD kit or the Zip-Ty (that's set to 2), or could this be a bad sparkplug when my son tipped over the WR (for its first time on its side)?

Thank for any insight,

Elton

  • cruise

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:30 PM

#2

maybe running too rich. Do u no which mj they used and which needle / clip pos :)

  • DeltaT

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:55 PM

#3

I have the same problem right now, after changing to the JD kit. Here's the thread:

http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=225270

Hope this helps. I am going to try their suggestions, after I try playing with the pilot screw and clip height (+-1).

The sputtering on mine is just off idle to about 1/4 throttle. Seem about right?

Jim

  • mtrablue

Posted February 20, 2005 - 06:50 AM

#4

it's kind of hard to rejet over the net, but i'll throw you a few things that might (or might not) help. it is possible to foul the plug on a wr. if the change in performance happened only after the fall, then you may be ready for a new plug but i doubt it. if my plug fouled every time i fell, i'd need a trailer to haul the spares.

the biggest thing is getting the new jetting dialed in. do you know what jets the shop put in? you should have a 48 pilot and a 165 main jet. if the weather is still in the 40's or below you'll want the blue needle. if your weather is in the sixties, you probably need the red needle. clip in the middle groove is a good place to start.did they do anything to the exhaust? did they take the "snorkel" out of the intake part of the airbox?

surging and sputtering usually means it's rich. bogging would be lean. the zipty screw has numbers on it but they don't represent the setting. they are only for reference. the screw should be set at between 1 1/2 to 2 turns out from all the way in. if you are going to check, turn it very lightly as it's aluminum and the tip can be damaged when bottomed in the hole. the easiest thing to do is turn it in or out half a turn (two numbers) and see if there is a change. keep track of what you do. if the screw has no effect on the problem, then put it back where it was and move to the next step. the next step is move the clip one position on the needle. check it (ride it).

i know this is a pain in the a$$ because the carb isn't easy to work on but it's worth it when the bike runs right.

  • elton

Posted February 20, 2005 - 11:07 AM

#5

do you know what jets the shop put in?

No; they just said they "did the kit". Actually, I told them the bike was running great, to check if "too lean", as many say, if so, use the kit. Now I'm wondering if I should have even messed with the Jetting.

Hey, looking at what's remaining in the JD kit box they gave back to me; there is a red needle, so they used the blue. There are four jets 165S, 165, 160, 168 -- so, they used the 170 and the 165S must have been stock.

did they do anything to the exhaust? did they take the "snorkel" out of the intake part of the airbox?

No, all of the free mods were done; the bike ran great w/stock jetting -- just thought the JD jetting would make it better. All they did was the LOWEDOG kit, JD kit and Zip-Ty install. These guys were recommended by my Yam dealer as my dealer did not want to remove the AIS, said it didn't need jetting, etc. The shop does some dirt-bike but mostly street and drag bike work (w/25-years experience).

Thank for the pointers on what to check -- it raining today, thus hard to test.

Elton

  • elton

Posted February 21, 2005 - 09:25 AM

#6

Reading the JD kit instructions; it appears that the shop did the JD kit as the instructions outline -- if so, what do I do now to fix this problem?

Elton

  • Indy_WR450

Posted February 21, 2005 - 11:14 AM

#7

I would go with the JD kit on the lean side. I think JD's instuctions are always a little on the rich side IMO. 165 main, JD red #4 and 48 pilot, 40 leak jet, and you should run better then stock! :)

  • elton

Posted February 21, 2005 - 02:28 PM

#8

I would go with the JD kit on the lean side. I think JD's instuctions are always a little on the rich side IMO. 165 main, JD red #4 and 48 pilot, 40 leak jet, and you should run better then stock! :)

Indy,

Please excuse my ignorance, but:

1)The stock main jet appears to have been a 165S, is the JD 165 different?

2)Reading the instructions, the kit has red and blue needles and (4) main jets; I'm confused about a JD red #4 and 48 pilot, 40 leak -- these are not in the JD kit, correct?

Elton

  • Indy_WR450

Posted February 21, 2005 - 03:08 PM

#9

The 48 pilot and 40 leak go beyond the JD jetting kit.

Tha JD blue needle gives many WR450's fits at low throttle openings unless you have an aftermarket pipe and air box mods for higher flow. :)

Jetting is more an art then an exact science. 2 bikes with similar mods may have different performance and throttle response. All I can say is that you will find the 165 main ( stock or JD) with the red needle in clip #4 from the top and a 48 pilot and 40 leak to be a better starting point for good jetting with a less modified WR450. :)

  • elton

Posted February 21, 2005 - 07:25 PM

#10

Indy,

I intend to get a E2 pipe when the 05 spec. ships soon; should I leave it alone until I get the pipe and see if it gets better with the E2?

Should I do anything with the Zip-Ty fuel screw to help this? The shop said it was set close to 3, but move it closer to 2 for better off-idle throttle response -- unsure if this was tested when the bike was fully warmed-up.

Elton

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • elton

Posted February 21, 2005 - 07:27 PM

#11

Indy,

I intend to get a E2 pipe when the 05 spec. ships soon; should I leave it alone until I get the pipe and see if it gets better with the E2?

Should I do anything with the Zip-Ty fuel screw to help this? The shop said they had the Zip-Ty set close to 3, but move it closer to 2 for better off-idle throttle response -- unsure if this was tested when the bike was fully warmed-up.

Elton

  • Indy_WR450

Posted February 21, 2005 - 07:31 PM

#12

Yes wait until you get all your mods and then evaluate your jetting. :)

  • elton

Posted February 21, 2005 - 08:12 PM

#13

Yes wait until you get all your mods and then evaluate your jetting. :)

Note: all (4) free mods are done per thumperfaq.com; and were done prior to the JD Kit. What about the Zip-Ty; should I adjust it at all to help this problem?

Thanks again,

Elton

  • Lowedog

Posted February 21, 2005 - 08:15 PM

#14

Elton,

When you say the bike is surging and sputtering is it very erratic under 1/4 throttle or is it slight? Most WR's will have a slight sputter or surge when cruising with the throttle barely opened. This is caused by the ACV (air cut valve). If it is very erratic it may be that the shop had your slide completely removed and installed the plate that goes on the front of the slide upside down. This will cause a very lean condition under 1/4 throttle and an erratic idle with surging. You may want to look in your manual at the carb diagram and you will see the plate I'm talking about. This might be the problem.

-Lowedog

  • elton

Posted February 23, 2005 - 12:29 PM

#15

Elton,

When you say the bike is surging and sputtering is it very erratic under 1/4 throttle or is it slight? Most WR's will have a slight sputter or surge when cruising with the throttle barely opened. This is caused by the ACV (air cut valve). If it is very erratic it may be that the shop had your slide completely removed and installed the plate that goes on the front of the slide upside down. This will cause a very lean condition under 1/4 throttle and an erratic idle with surging. You may want to look in your manual at the carb diagram and you will see the plate I'm talking about. This might be the problem.

-Lowedog

Mark,

Thanks for the info; I'll get the shop to verify it, as I looked all over the carburetor last night and could not see any plate that looked out of sorts.

Does the Zip-Ty setting have any bearing on this rich/lean condition?

Elton

  • Lowedog

Posted February 23, 2005 - 06:40 PM

#16

The Zip-Ty fuel screw setting won't cause an erratic idle but may cause a slight sputter. Won't hurt to mess around with it just turn in fully counting the number of turns to fid your current setting and try moving it in 1/4-1/2 turn increments and see if you notice any change. Be sure not to seat it to hard when turning it in fully as it is easy to damge the end of it. 1-1/2 turns out is a good place to start and try in and out from there.

-Lowedog

  • yamaharichey

Posted February 23, 2005 - 08:41 PM

#17

Have you tried unplugging the TPS, It made all the difference with mine, and I'll never plug it in again. It runs so much better without it.

  • elton

Posted February 24, 2005 - 06:37 AM

#18

Have you tried unplugging the TPS, It made all the difference with mine, and I'll never plug it in again. It runs so much better without it.

TPS; Please elaborate...

Elton

  • elton

Posted February 27, 2005 - 08:24 AM

#19

Does anyone know what "unpluging the TPS" is?

The WR ran like sh..t yesterday at anything but full throttle; my second day out since the JD and Zip-Ty installed per the instructions (170 jet and blue needle).

It seemed to get worse as the day went on. Sounds and feels horible unless on throttle increasing the revs. Randomly quits on idel, when hot requiring the hot-start (never did this stock).

I have held off taking it back to the shop to REVERSE THE JD KIT; since I am waiting on a E2 exhaust that I was hoping to arrive and thought it may need the 170 jet and blue needle -- but after yesterday I not sure I can take it any more (as the bike ran perfectly with stock jetting and no zip-ty -- just did them because everyone was doing it).

I move the Zip-Ty a from 2 to 1 and 2 to 3 -- can't tell a bit of difference, what exactly is the Zip-Ty supposed to do?

Elton

  • Frostbite

Posted February 27, 2005 - 10:27 AM

#20

Hey Bama, the TPS is the throttle position sensor on the carb and you can unplug it from the wiring harness. My bike has run fine since 99 with it plugged in.
I just put in a JD kit and my bike is surging at a steady slow speed but works fine at full crack or when I roll on the gas. I'm not ready to blame the JD kit since I made a few other mods at the same time. I haven't had much time to troubleshoot lately but I ordered some jets and will play around when they get here. My bike was very smooth before the mods and now it's hard to ride slow. My jetting will be different than yours but at least you can see if richening or leaning out helped.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.