YZ-F programmable fuel injection


46 replies to this topic
  • 642MX

Posted February 19, 2005 - 05:58 PM

#21

Right on Satch!

  • Tylert14

Posted February 19, 2005 - 08:46 PM

#22

Pavelkod


??????

  • BlueLiquid

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:07 PM

#23

I'm still trying to figure out why dirt riders have such a strong resistance to EFI. Sportbikes all made the change a few years back and are producing more power. Not to mention, cleaner emissions, better fuel economy, better throttle response(no bogs), not to mention prolonged engine life due to always have a proper air/fuel ratio.

I've been waiting for a big bike maker to switch to EFI on the dirt, I'd love it if I didn't have to rejet for altitude or weather. But the manufacturers won't do it because consumers are so afraid.

I would buy the EFI if it only cost $1K.

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 20, 2005 - 01:09 AM

#24

Hey Satch0922? "45hp by today's standards" sounds weak? Here are 2 articles so we don't have any miscommunications. DYNO tests and mag articles. The stock 2003-2005 YZ450F's are 46- 47HP. With an $800 or so exhaust system they go at a max of 49hp. Mine came with 45 and was highly modified. I can assure you I at least have 48.
www.dirtrider.com/tests/141_0303_pip/index.html
www.amadirectlink.com/amrace/2004/news/SmotoBuild.asp
All this crap about how old the YZ400F is and you see there is very little HP difference by the articles. Weight is a factor no sh*t. SO IS POWERBAND, hence PROGRAMMABLE EFI. YOU CHANGE THE POWERBAND and THROTTLE RESPONSE. But since I'm not racing Paris to Dakar, I DON’T CARE about an extra 20lbs.

  • crayztwentyseven

Posted February 20, 2005 - 02:11 AM

#25

NewhouseEnt
This EFI sounds really cool, glad you tried it out and gave us a report. No progress would ever be made if nobody did anything different. I cannnot justify the cash to do it, but if I had the money I would put it on my yz450. It is your money, do whatever you want with it. A month ago I bought a Cannondale for less than 2k with less than 10 hours on it! I have not ridden it yet because I am fixing the motor problems, but I can't wait to try it out. I hear that the efi makes a world of difference. Can you transfer that EFI unit you bought to a newer bike easily?

  • Satch0922

Posted February 20, 2005 - 05:52 AM

#26

Keep in mind....no one is slamming EFI.....that would be and most likely WILL be in the future...hopefully near future. My point is that it is why would anyone in their right mind (unless you DO have money to burn...and it appears you do so that's great) spend all that money on a 400F. Do we really need to get into what other improvements new bikes have over that model that make the bike easier to ride, faster, more reliable etc etc.

That was and is my only point. Thank you for being a leader in the quest for EFI. I applaud you. At least we got you to take the Honda avatar down LOL!

Now this infant has to go eat some breakfast ! LMAO :)

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 20, 2005 - 05:56 AM

#27

beer injection!!!! now your talkin' my language :p grayracer, i never said FI was banned for reliability issues ,i said it's not used today for reliability issues,its on nascars website. and twice the computers = twice the chance of failure. i'm no technophob but i gotta tell you that although the computer is supposed to make our lives easier, it does NOT belong on a dirtbike. speaking of nascar, who's gonna win today? can you say JR :) and without fuel injection no less,how archaic :) :D

  • Blue4Ever

Posted February 20, 2005 - 12:07 PM

#28

"Gray", You must of been a Firefighter in a previous life! Because your so good at putting them out! :) I agree that EFI is the future and before it ever hits the showroom floors the manufacturers will be sure it is fairly reliable. As for our original poster of this debt, it does appear he likes to talk about what he has, how much money he spent and how financially successfully he is. I wonder just how enjoyable having a beer with him would be?! The older I get the more I realize how little that means. Once again GOOD JOB!! Now, it's time to watch NASCAR and if time allows get in a short ride. :)

  • Fastest1

Posted February 20, 2005 - 02:59 PM

#29

"Gray", You must of been a Firefighter in a previous life! Because your so good at putting them out! :) I agree that EFI is the future and before it ever hits the showroom floors the manufacturers will be sure it is fairly reliable. As for our original poster of this debt, it does appear he likes to talk about what he has, how much money he spent and how financially successfully he is. I wonder just how enjoyable having a beer with him would be?! The older I get the more I realize how little that means. Once again GOOD JOB!! Now, it's time to watch NASCAR and if time allows get in a short ride. :)


It is very reliable now, just expensive. There are no linkages or slides or springs. The manufacturers are just waiting for the inevitable. Alot of the watercraft already have them and outboards have had it for years. Change is constant!

  • Joe_Jet

Posted February 20, 2005 - 06:18 PM

#30

I smell a Tech Doof!

It sounds like you just created a Yamaha/Cannondale monster! The FI on the Cannondale was awesome when it worked, but NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE!!!
This is especially true on a MX bike!

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Satch0922

Posted February 20, 2005 - 06:33 PM

#31

Thought you weren't checking this thread again? You got sucked in didn't you ! :) It happens to the best of us.....

It is really nothing to get all excited about. Everyone has opinions and some real life experiences. This is a place to share them. Take what you want from them and move on. You will never win an argument on a forum based website....so why bother.

I just want to know where you were a few months ago when I was selling my 426 ?!?! :)

  • Some Dude

Posted February 20, 2005 - 06:41 PM

#32

This thread is absolutely hilarious and disturbing at the same time. $3000 for an EFI system that manages 1 cylinder is a rip off. For $1000+ you could buy a Haltech and have a smarter EFI then most cars produced with prior to 2002 that can be totally customized. The only disadvantage would be space to mount it. I just love guys who make a post and insist on staying on the soapbox until the death.

PS Anyone who says their bikes produces at least bla bla bla HP is full of Pucky. Show me a dated dyno graph and who can be contacted to verify it, then maybe I'll believe you. Adding gains per performance item you bought online or your local parts jerk sold you doesnt mean you can add all those incremental numbers up and state it as fact.

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 20, 2005 - 06:56 PM

#33

I couldn't help myself. I AM getting sucked in. I am now inside my cable modem line.... Anyone remember the movie Tron? Sheesh.
What's this other company you are talking about the makes EFI for bikes? I want to check it out. I got my figures from the stock HP rating, then add at least 2HP for jetting and pipe, etc. Even if it's only 3hp total, it doesn't matter. After all the sqeezing and massaging at the factory they only pumped out a few more HP from 99' till now.
I once saw some guy with a dyno tested CRF450F that got 67HP. I wish I knew were I saw it and what he did to it. Can you imagine? I remeber he had $13k into it to though...
I AM NOW SUCKED IN OFFICIALLY. Next year there will have been 29,000 responses to this thread and it will crash the servers.
Ladies and gents, assist me in beating this subject into a dead horse. Get to wackin'!!

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 20, 2005 - 07:07 PM

#34

I don't know why, but I am absolutley in love with my 99'. I've ridden my team mates YZ450F's, 426's and their RM-F's and CRF's. All 2003 - 2004 models. I like mine better. It's my preference. For all I know the thing has been bored and cammed before I put on the EFI. I have no idea. I bought it from someone who was scared of it and he bought it from the guy who modded it it and he was scared of it. That's all I know. I bought it last year. The going rate was a then minimum of $2,900 here in SoCal. You still can't get a nice one for under $2,600 here.
The major thing I didn't like about the 2003 was that it felt much fatter (not weight, but width) and not nearly as nimble in the corners at Glen Helen. The owner agreed. Remember, the 2003-2005's have had their power band tamed way down because of complaints about the brutality of the older YZ's. This is a fact that has been written on over and over. The same with the Honda's. People want one long powerband. I like brutal. Give me an old Maico 490! I am seriously looking at the 2004 Honda CR500AF for a second bike. Red Rock canyon here I come!

  • Satch0922

Posted February 20, 2005 - 07:20 PM

#35

um actually no.....the 03 450 has the most "brutal" powerband of all the YZF's...the 04 is a close second. That is what has been written over and over.....and having ridden a 98,00,01,02,03,04,05 YZF I can verify this to be true.....not written (until now).

  • JohnBosson

Posted February 21, 2005 - 03:35 AM

#36

Reading this thread has made me nervous :)
My YZ426 motard has a standard digital CDI (that means a computer chip controls it :p ), I think I must do a conversion to points for the sake of reliability.

Just joking and making a point.
Fuel injection is the way to go in some situations - I love the technology - because I am into electronics and for a hobby - besides my motard - I build programmable CDI's powered by a pic microchip.

Some are right though - I wouldn't spend so much money on an EFI setup - a gym membership, diet and more track time would definitely improve my lap times more.

It's no use arguing about it - let's do what this board is for, and discuss it.

For the most horsepower over your full rev range you cannot beat fuel injection - that's a fact - how about some dyno runs and more tech info? :)

Cheers
John

  • grayracer513

Posted February 21, 2005 - 08:55 AM

#37

i'm no technophob but i gotta tell you ...the computer ... does NOT belong on a dirtbike.

You have one on your dirt bike right now, and it's been one of the biggest improvements in reliability and performance made in the last twenty years. Your CDI unit is nothing more than a single purpose computer that runs a burned in program (firmware) to provide spark, limit rpm, and adjust your timing based on a combination of throttle postion (Unless you unplugged your TPS) and rpm. How often do they fail?

The reliability excuse may be what got published on their website, but it's BS. Mechanical devices are more failure prone than modern electronics. NASCAR's fuel injection is, IMO, a carried over concession to sportsman racing, and an attempt to make the sport more accessible to those on a more limited budget. The ignition systems on most big time NASCAR rides these days are controlled by very sophisticated ECU's, and the bulk of their ignition troubles come from elsewhere. It actually goes against the concept of "Stock" cars anyway, since no one builds carbureted cars anymore.

Also remember that NASCAR has had a history of trying to slow down the GN cars for over 30 years. When the 426's were going 200+ and the 440's and 454's showed up, they freaked out and dropped the limit to 405. When these started hitting 210+, they went down to 355. When those cars started going over 200 yet again, they dropped to 305. Now that they're approaching those speeds again, what will they do next?

  • grayracer513

Posted February 21, 2005 - 09:21 AM

#38

I see that you have almost 2,000 posts on this board alone. This means you are one of those fruit-ball nit wits that sit obsessed on your PC and talk trash and worry about what things you'll have to come up with next, instead of working to own "swamp land." You aren't a nice person, that's too bad. If you had bothered to read the COMPLETE posts I put up, you could have not possibly come up with your remarks.

The thing is, I believe he did read it. And unless you've been lurking here for some time, I don't think you really know much about Satch, beyond the assumptions you've drawn from his reactions to your posts

Come out here sometime and I'll show you what I'VE DONE financially and we'll talk about who the intelligent person is. ... I’ll show you what real success is.

No one cares. That's not the point of this forum. And the problem I'm having here is not about whether EFI has any merit. We share information and experiences here in the interest of helping and learning from each other, not to fluff ourselves up. Most of us are going to be fairly well able to separate fact from (fiction) and do get annoyed by people who come around blowing smoke for their own aggrandizement. Your post was the equivalent of having an unexpected dump truck drop 5 yards of manure on my lawn during my Sunday breakfast. When we object, you start name calling (burger flipper). Not cool.

True success isn't measured in dollars. I'm afraid that up to this point, you haven't been very successful.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 21, 2005 - 10:20 AM

#39

On your last post, I wrote that in response to basically him saying (satch) I am a lieieng idiot and don't know anything. If there was a personal attack, it was that post he wrote. There was no need for that. Those are old posts, I think that is all over. Anyway, grayracer knows his sh*izizmit. His point is right on the money. Obviously greyracer should be telling us about Optimum's product. I'm not being sarcastic either. Th person, who ever he was that mentioned his dragster was producing 12,000 HP on the radio (I had said it earlier but took it out due to FLAK,) was discussing that they could not use the machine and that the limits, I believe he said 330mph, were at the limit of the NHRA rules. The mid second 4's are also near the limits. It's not that the cars CAN'T go faster, they aren't allowed to. Same with NASCAR. Anyone remember Yamaha's 750 2 stroke that raced against the Harley's? It was so fast it was taken off the track because it wouldn't stay on the track. It's not that they CAN'T go faster, there is truely a safety issue. An 8,9 or 10 thousand horsepower car is a severly dangerous thing to be around. I wouldn't want to be in the pits if one of those monsters blew.
I remember 10 years ago when an alcholol funny bike blew the supercharger and pistons. It would have taken the rider's head off but no one was on the bike. This is what I was saying about YZ-F's as well. They made them too fast. The CRF450's, same thing. For two years the bikes have been made tamer and less explosive. For racing I could see why. Sudden wheel lift and tire spin is bad.
Hence programmable EFI is even more important. Hey greyracer, please go onto Optimum-Power.com and read all their stuff. YOU tell us what you think. You seem to know far more than any of us, all put together. I am seriously interested in your feedback. I just know it made my bike night-and-day. This fact alone should make people jump on the system.
The Maybach Mercedes was supposed to have been a 1,000hp car when the project was started a few years ago. It's not now. So was Cadillacs new super car. De-tuning.

The quoted post above contains 8 statements that, apart from being only distantly relavent, are factually false, 2 more that are simply not credible, and 2 logical non sequiturs, together with the incorrect inference that I have any doubts as to the merits of EFI, programmable or not, when I have already said otherwise more than once. Given that as an example, can you see why Satch, or anyone, might question your veracity?

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 21, 2005 - 10:26 AM

#40

You have one on your dirt bike right now, and it's been one of the biggest improvements in reliability and performance made in the last twenty years. Your CDI unit is nothing more than a single purpose computer that runs a burned in program (firmware) to provide spark, limit rpm, and adjust your timing based on a combination of throttle postion (Unless you unplugged your TPS) and rpm. How often do they fail?

The reliability excuse may be what got published on their website, but it's BS. Mechanical devices are more failure prone than modern electronics. NASCAR's fuel injection is, IMO, a carried over concession to sportsman racing, and an attempt to make the sport more accessible to those on a more limited budget. The ignition systems on most big time NASCAR rides these days are controlled by very sophisticated ECU's, and the bulk of their ignition troubles come from elsewhere. It actually goes against the concept of "Stock" cars anyway, since no one builds carbureted cars anymore.

Also remember that NASCAR has had a history of trying to slow down the GN cars for over 30 years. When the 426's were going 200+ and the 440's and 454's showed up, they freaked out and dropped the limit to 405. When these started hitting 210+, they went down to 355. When those cars started going over 200 yet again, they dropped to 305. Now that they're approaching those speeds again, what will they do next?

o.k. well the cup cars run two complete ignition systems due to the fact that they fail regularly!!! i have seen at least a dozen times where both system fail. yes i do have electronic ign. and they do occasionally fail. i'm just sayin' the more crap to go wrong the greater the chance of it happenin'. if the manufacturers decide to go down that road then i will follow and hope they have it figured out. i know that dirt is a major enemy of FI and what are we riding in DIRT... :) and hey, the only reason i got into this mess is that the dudes facts were so oughta whack,i figured he was too :) oh, and most of those sophisticated ECU's are the same crank triggered MSD ignitions available to the public.





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