YZ-F programmable fuel injection


46 replies to this topic
  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 18, 2005 - 08:08 PM

#1

:D Man, if you want high tech and state of the art, the first mod you should try is "Optimum-Power.com's" top of the line programable, (on the fly "map" switching) EFI system. Currently they make the system for all open class YZ-F's from 99' to present. With the system you can either upload their pre existing "maps" or make them yourself.
1. Change "maps" on the fly with the press of a button. 3 maps can be saved in the brain a the same time. Going up a sandy hill? Flip the button and change to a map that favors or enhances low end and mid range. Imagine the look on your competitors (or buddy) face as your bike comes on the pipe. No shifting or clutching on his part will match your acceleration. :p
2. Hitting a long straight away? Change maps to favor top end speed/ power. Watch the look of puzzlement on your partner's face when you pick the front end up on a the straight and take off like you hit the NOS.
3. Way out in the desert or woods? Running low on fuel and change to an economy type map.
I don't believe it add's a ton of HP. But it made my bike night and day. I would think only cams, valves and other engine mods could add significant HP. It's more about throttle response, and power band enhancment as well as emissions. A company called REV Motorcycles currently makes a totally customizable, green sticker 2 stroke 250 with electric start and EFI that only weighs 214lbs.
Anyway, with Optimum's system it only adds a few pounds and utilizes much of the stock system. I guess they also make the system for 2 strokes.
They key is being able to do simulations and be able to see what will happen without buying and trying new parts and mods or doing it trial and error style.
Toyota, S&S (huge Harley aftermarket company), Roush-Yates (Ford racing), Cannondale MX motorcycles, and RAETech use their control and software systems among other things.
Their software itself is state of the art. The software can do parametric design, optimization, Virtual DAQ, catalyst and MATLAB/Simulink. Includes turbocharger, supercharger and intercooler support; Co-simulation option with FLUENT; Transient pipe temperature analysis; Variable pipe length; Multi-user database and Dynamic valve motion.
Obviously you can use the system for many applications besides on the Yamaha.
They start at $2,500 and go to $3k for the top of the line. I fiddle with mine on my laptop IN THE DESERT and then upload the changes on the spot. I can then switch from the 3 "maps" while riding.
This is a a fairly inexpensive mod for serious racers or off roaders since you won't need many of the other mods you get in it's place. In that sense you are spending the same as if you'd modded the rest of the bike. What I did was to buy a beefed up and pro-modified 99' YZ400F for $3,200 and then put this on. Much of this was because I needed a green sticker YZ-F here in SoCal. I am already making the same HP as a slightly modified 2005 YZ450F, although obviously my bike is heavier. My entire suspension was already re-done. I'm still out less than a new YZ450F and smoke every one of them I come accross. Keep in mind I'm not MXing for a living. This is not the future, it's today. Not having programmable EFI is like riding a 78' XR80 in the Super cross. :) This is some trick stuff people! Hope it helps! :)

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted February 18, 2005 - 08:10 PM

#2

Hey, desert bikes cant get any heavier so why not add FI? For MX, stick with a carburetor. And who rides with a laptop in the desert? That sounds about STUPID as hell.

Doug

  • FFRacing79

Posted February 18, 2005 - 08:32 PM

#3

Hey, desert bikes cant get any heavier so why not add FI? For MX, stick with a carburetor. And who rides with a laptop in the desert? That sounds about STUPID as hell.

Doug


Heavier??? Not much. Eliminate the weight of the carb...add the weight of a small gell cell...you couldn't tell the weight difference, but sure as hell could tell the power difference. Can't wait for the OEMs to come EFI!
"That sounds about STUPID as hell"...just showing your ignorance!

  • 642MX

Posted February 18, 2005 - 08:50 PM

#4

Sounds like that set up is for people with way too much money. 90% rider and 10% bike is what I always heard. When the limitations of my 426 keeps me from winning a supercross or outdoor national then maybe I will drop 3K on something like that. Until then, I think "its stupid as hell" too.

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 18, 2005 - 09:00 PM

#5

I didn't say I rode with the lap top!! It's (the lap top) is in the truck. Do I need to spell it out for the slow thinker? It adds a net gain of 2lbs. after you take off un-needed items. Anyone who thinks EFI is stupid, is the type of person that shouldn't own a performance machine. Why are you uin the YZ-F threads then? Get a TT or an XR. I hate when threads get personal and littered with ignorence.
Obviously if you are a weekend trail rider this stuff isn't for you. But to say performance mods on a high tech machine like the YZ-F series bike line is dumb, baffles me. Why do you own one then? Probaly drives a Saturn and no doubt thinks a Mercedes SL65 is dumb too.

  • 642MX

Posted February 18, 2005 - 09:08 PM

#6

I didn't say I rode with the lap top!! It's (the lap top) is in the truck. It adds a net gain of 2lbs. people after you take off needed items. Anyone who thinks fuel injection is stupid, is the type of person that shouldn't own a performance machine. Get a TT or an XR. I hate when threads get personal and mean. Why we have to have children on the site is beyond me. With the mods I'm talking to guys like me and other hardcore riders who mod their machines and are expert riders. Obviously if you are a weekend trail rider this stuff isn't for you. But to say performance mods on a high tech machine like a YZ-F series s dumb, baffles me. Why do you own one? These guys probaly drive Saturns and no dount think an Mercedes SL65 is dumb too.



I did not say it was dumb, I said it was stupid to spend money on EFI. But if you can afford it, go ahead. I drive a F-150 too. Oh and if your in So Ind sometime look me up we can see what kind of a rider you are newbie.

  • DoctorRzed

Posted February 19, 2005 - 02:27 AM

#7

I am thinking of dropping the 2500 and getting it myself. :)

  • Satch0922

Posted February 19, 2005 - 06:04 AM

#8

Somethings you will never make me understand...........

1. Your new to the board , have a YZF but run a Honda avatar

2. You spent $3200 on a 99 YZ400F ( I don't care how modded out it is it's still a bike that came out almost 7 years ago)

3. You spent $2500 for a mod to a $3200 (actually about a $2000) dirt bike

4. 99 YZF a "high tech" machine? Not by today's standards (all 260lbs of it)

EFI or not.....this is a disturbing thread. LMAO

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 19, 2005 - 06:48 AM

#9

Trying to produce 12,000 HP (current top fuel specs on HP) on a carbureted system without blowing the U.S. into Europe is physically impossible. NO ONE IN NASCAR uses carbs, NO ONE AT NASA would either. There is not one single winning funny bike using a carb."

dude you should be on letterman! i've never seen anyone on this forum talk out thier a$$ as well as you. NHRA top fuel cars are running roughly half(on average) of the HP you claim,NASCAR has not allowed fuel injection since they outlawed it in the 50's on the chevrolets,and are not allowing anytime soon. you know why? reliability issues,go figure! and what the heck does NASA have to do with it,i don't think there has ever been a carburated rocket ship to start with. i myself would not buy something that is obviously overpriced,from a company that had someone such as yourself to represent them. :) if this is your company i'd find a new sales rep!

  • Wyatt

Posted February 19, 2005 - 06:52 AM

#10

NO ONE IN NASCAR uses carbs, NO ONE AT NASA would either. There is not one single winning funny bike using a carb."



Nascar uses 4 barrel carbs and pushrod motors.......embrace the old technology

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  • John407

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:45 AM

#11

It would be interesting to know why Arctic Cat snowmobiles come with the option of buying the same model with fuel injection (no battery needed) or a carb. Anyone know what the differences and reasons are? Do they sell both just due to the reluctance of people to buy EFI? :)

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:46 AM

#12

EFI or not.....this is a disturbing thread. LMAO


I couldn't agree more.

Doug

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 19, 2005 - 10:47 AM

#13

You are right about NASCAR. I got the point. And SOME dragsters do use carbs. But most of it has to do with evening the playing field. If one researches a bit you'll find that the race orgs banned injection because the smaller teams do not have $$ and support to compete with a big buck team and the resources they have available. What they would have as an advantage if they got into PC controled cars, over carb teams, huge. The limits would be the sky. I suppose HD uses injection for their health? Even Chevy switched to single and double over head cams on their current cars because pushrod tech cannot compete.
Take the 99' E55 4 door sedan with no turbo and no supercharger smoking the 99 Corvette all the way through the quarter, including the slalom. SOHC Vs Pushrod. Are there actually people out there adviocating that push rods and carbs are the best tech? Even chain saw and lawn mower companies have switched to injection. I can't believe I got into this conversation...
There is not one single Porsche, Ferrari , Lambo or any other fast car being produced that is carbed. WHY? Even the Mitso Evo is injected. That's how they got a 4 cylinder piece of crap to do mid 4.5, 0-60 times. Come on guy. Get into 2005. Try racing a 1995 sport bike against an injected 2005 YZ-F (street bike.) It's not going to happen.

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 19, 2005 - 11:45 AM

#14

Your specs on the 99'? Off, as is the rest of your theories.
Dirt Bike Magazine 99:
1999 YAMAHA YZ400F
Tested in the Feb 1999 issue.
TEST BIKE WEIGHT: 248 lb. (260lbs? wow...)
PEAK HORSEPOWER: 45.0 @ 8500 rpm
By the way folks, I'm in SoCal real estate investements. I have no affiliation with Optimum. I'd do a better job here if I were...

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 19, 2005 - 12:56 PM

#15

i hate to tell you there mr. wizard but 7,000 HP is closer to half your original statement of 12,000,i've not seen anyone break 8k HP yet so if its happened its very recent. i'm just saying that your credibility kinda goes down the tubes when you start spewin' crap like that. if the cannondales are such a superior product due to the EFI ,a couple questions come to mind. 1.why don't they win more? 2. why don't more people run them in GNCC,HS,and enduro racing ? if yamaha decides to include it on the production bikes so be it,t'ill then mine runs fine. i already have too much power as it is in the HS i run. its just one more thing to screw up. at least if you clog a pilot jet,its a 5-10 min fix on the trail. what do you do when the injector clogs,computer dies,fuel pump quit's,fuel filter clogs,high pressure line breaks etc.....dead in the water is what. and don't come back with those things never happen,i've been a mechanic toooo long. i think a mechanical FI system may be more reliable. but i'm just a moron with a PC.

  • SkyRyder55

Posted February 19, 2005 - 01:42 PM

#16

"Arguing carb to injection is like talking to a retarded monkey about the benifits of land ownership." :) :)

  • rmracer27

Posted February 19, 2005 - 02:12 PM

#17

If a person wants to spend money on injection or anything for the bike its there own money.That person might like injection better where the other might like carb better its based up on what the person likes or they don't like. The main thing here is if the person wants to spend that much on anything for there bike no matter what kind or year it is its there own money. Its more rider than bike! Thats the way I feel about and I don't mean to step on any toes here..

  • grayracer513

Posted February 19, 2005 - 02:24 PM

#18

Man, there's so much here I don't know where to start. First we have a guy who spends $1250 per hp to add 2 more to a 6 year-old bike (and yes it does weigh 260, dry weight only counts if you're going to enter it a Soap Box Derby) when he could have sold it and spent the same money getting 4-5 more, shed 25 pounds, and had better suspension who comes in and makes exaggerated claims about NHRA and NASCAR racing, and something about how great his 17" Centrino portable is.

Then we have a 17 year-old who tells us that having re-programmable ECU's on a motorcycle is stupid. After that, somebody makes the claim that NASCAR disallowed Chevrolet's FI units in the '50s because they weren't reliable (the fact is they worked so well that they were banned as an unfair advantage) and further wants to know what would happen when the ECU fails in the middle of nowhere. The same thing that happens when your ignition ECU fails. What? That hardly ever happens? OK.

Stuff like this makes me glad I got my degree in Bovine Scatology. Sheesh.

Carbs at their very best are voodoo physics at work. EFI is the future. Having seen first hand what it has done for cars, I can't wait. But there's no way I would spend that kind of money on it.

:)

  • NewhouseEnt

Posted February 19, 2005 - 03:10 PM

#19

You said it! Anyway, I know it's a lot of money to some, not to me. It really isn't about hp though. It's about the type of power band you can program and about throttle response. People keep taking what I'm saying wrong. I mentioned the Centrino because it proves you can have a powerful pc that is light weight. I mentioned it because people are bad on the possible weight of EFI. On why I keep an older bike and pour money into it, please see my prior post. I suspect you midewest guys don't have red sticker seasons out there. This may be the problem in understanding me. We can only ride a few months out of the year. 2003 and above YZ-F and CRF's are banned from much of the year. I get to ride mine all the time.

  • Satch0922

Posted February 19, 2005 - 04:25 PM

#20

Your specs on the 99'? Off, as is the rest of your theories.
Dirt Bike Magazine 99:
1999 YAMAHA YZ400F
Tested in the Feb 1999 issue.
TEST BIKE WEIGHT: 248 lb. (260lbs? wow...)
PEAK HORSEPOWER: 45.0 @ 8500 rpm
By the way folks, I'm in SoCal real estate investements. I have no affiliation with Optimum. I'd do a better job here if I were...



248lbs with gas? I dont think so. 45 HP.....that is pretty weak by today's standards.

Good thing your not in real estate....because (and I know this is a tired phrase) "I have some swamp land to sell you"


If you came on here with an 05 YZF, with all the available mods that exist( which are numerous) and told us you are a novice rider but have money to burn so you installed an EFI system so you could be the official test rider of TT.....then I would go along with that. Buying a 7 year old bike for almost twice what it is worth and then dumping...I am sorry...WASTING $2500 on EFI on THAT bike is rediculous.

BTW...a HD will win in a drag race against a new YZ450F./...but we ride them on motocross tracks. Again...this thread is disturbing LMAO :)

Ladies and gentlemen ...we have a new Pavelkod......





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