Slow riding/when is hot too hot?


39 replies to this topic
  • colo-mikey

Posted February 17, 2005 - 01:34 PM

#1

About once a month I (2000 wr400f) ride with my godson (crf50,5 yrs old,first bike). I tend to run interference for him due to the fact we ride in areas where there are many others in a small area,some riders are considerate ,some not.
Needless to say while riding his speed I'm not getting alot of air through the radiator and can start to feel the warmth on my legs at which time (when traffic allows) I will do short blasts at speed to cool it down and then the cycle starts all over.
My question is how detrimental is this to the engine? Are radiator mounted cooling fans practical?Will they run off of the stock lighting coil along with the lights?
Any input will be greatly appreciated.
Mike

  • 5valve

Posted February 17, 2005 - 01:56 PM

#2

dont worry, this is normal
why cool fan if bike is equipped with expansion unit, which gathers thrown out water when thermostat in radiator cap decides, your bike is overheated...thats when you stop or speed up to cool down, otherwise unnecessary :)

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 17, 2005 - 02:04 PM

#3

i went to evans NPG-R (400 deg boiling point @ 7 psi) and use two2cool oil treatment(clutch safe) i can't make it boil over if i tried (and i have) :)

  • Beef

Posted February 17, 2005 - 09:28 PM

#4

A 4" brushless muffin fan usually doesn't consume much current. I would think it would EASILY run off of your lighting coil. The trick would be finding one that is "weather resistant/proof" and then doing a good job with heat-shrink tube on your wiring to seal out water from the solder joints.

As far as coolant additives, they may prevent the coolant from boiling over, but as far as I'm concerned, boiling over coolant tells me when the engine is too hot. Just because the coolant won't boil over doesn't mean the engine isn't too hot. Your engine shouldn't go much over 200'F. If you start pushing 250-300'F, you could potentially warp the head.

  • Thedukester

Posted February 17, 2005 - 10:57 PM

#5

I can relate. I used to ride my 400 quad with my 5 yr old son's 50 quad and I told him to honk the horn if he needed to stop, because I couldn't hear him yell. The quad never overheated. Now that I have my wr450, our rides heat the motor up real quik. But when I speed up to get some air rushing in he just stands on the horn, he thinks I am going to take off with out him. It is cute on one hand but very frustrating having the bike steaming and being concerned about damaging the engine.

  • thumpinTed

Posted February 18, 2005 - 02:45 AM

#6

I have K type thermocouples in the radiator inlet and outlet and I have seen my bike at 180F when doing low speeds as you mentioned and at this temp I could feel the heat like you, no worries, by the time you grab 4th in a drag race acceleration the bike cools down to 135F or so on a 75 degree day. Ted

  • Chris_from_Oz

Posted February 18, 2005 - 05:19 AM

#7

"Slow riding/when is hot too hot? "
When you can hear the coolant percolating in the overflow reservoir, it's too hot.....(It happened only once to my bike on REALLY tight single track) :)

  • RC876

Posted February 18, 2005 - 05:33 AM

#8

[quote name='thumpinTed']I have K type thermocouples in the radiator inlet and outlet and I have seen my bike at 180F


Finally someone with thermocouples on their bike.

We install them in the water jacket on the cylinder head and in the radiators.
In the engine oil itself usually at 8:30 looking at the clutch cover and many times in the drain plug depending on the model. I am working now on having one inside of the clutch itself.

At one time on two bikes we had thermocouples in both calipers and thermistor type senders attached to the suspension.

We now have data aquisition equipment that will log all this info along with track times,split times,RPM'S, MPH, etc. and its dowloadable. Then can be shown on many different graphs and charts.

Next we will be data aquisition that will actually map whatever track you are on and show these inputs in correlation with where you are on the track.

Norman

  • ncmountainman

Posted February 18, 2005 - 06:36 AM

#9

As far as coolant additives, they may prevent the coolant from boiling over, but as far as I'm concerned, boiling over coolant tells me when the engine is too hot. Just because the coolant won't boil over doesn't mean the engine isn't too hot. Your engine shouldn't go much over 200'F. If you start pushing 250-300'F, you could potentially warp the head.

you obviously don't race! it's not just that the NPG-R doesn't boil t'ill 400' but it avoids nucleate boiling inside the cylinder and does a much better cooling job when things do get hot. i was continually boiling out products that are supposed to have a 250-260' boiling point. and my head is just fine (the bike's anyhow!) i'm pretty sure my bike sees 300' regularly. just because technology has held us to 220-250' does not mean that the motor cannot handle more heat than the coolant. i would say that it would take more than 400' to warp a head (as long as the coolant was still circulating) which only the evans could make possible. norman sees these these temps in his testing very often. and yes i've got the boyesen water pump,and the jetting is right,valves are adjusted. it's just that the 50/50 coolants just don't do it for me. better to run hotter and keep your coolant in the bike than to spit it out and have half what you started with? :)

  • Bat-450

Posted February 18, 2005 - 11:31 AM

#10

Hey ncmountainman
what is this product "evens NPG-R" that you are talking about? Is it a coolant additive or replacement ?

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  • ncmountainman

Posted February 18, 2005 - 02:38 PM

#11

evans NPG-R is a ethylene glycol based waterless coolant.its the toxic stuff,but our world is already on its way to hell in a handbasket anyhow! you have to flush all water out of the system with a product they offer($18) a gallon and once that is done(i did it it twice and still have a half gal. left) you add the npg-r($25 a gal.) and run it. there is a big deal on the site and in the destructions about NOT adding water to it in a emergency situation. i spoke with one of the evans engineers and was told that it would just contaminate the system and you would have to start over. that the statement was meant more for the large vehicles that are more of a pain to flush,and water would not have a chemical reaction or damage your bike in any way. its the only thing i've been able to keep in my bike where it belongs:thumbsup:

  • kevin1209

Posted April 22, 2005 - 12:32 PM

#12

Just ordered some NPG-R and Prep for my 98 WR400. My overflow resevoir was removed by the previous owner, and my bike has always had overheating problems. I hope this works! NCMountainman, you have been a good guinea pig for trying stuff on your bike and telling us about it. Keep up the good posts!!! :naughty: :D

Is that beard real? That's one furry mug you got there. :naughty:

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 22, 2005 - 01:00 PM

#13

no problem,i love to share info especially if it works. there are alot of people afraid to stray from the tried and true,but how else does somthing become tried and true but to try it !! the beard is fake,i shave my a$$ and glue it on my face just to look like a real mountainman :naughty: too bad my a$$ is starting to go grey,i'm gonna look like santa soon :naughty:

  • DesertWR

Posted April 22, 2005 - 01:06 PM

#14

evans NPG-R is a ethylene glycol based waterless coolant.its the toxic stuff,but our world is already on its way to hell in a handbasket anyhow! you have to flush all water out of the system with a product they offer($18) a gallon and once that is done(i did it it twice and still have a half gal. left) you add the npg-r($25 a gal.) and run it. there is a big deal on the site and in the destructions about NOT adding water to it in a emergency situation. i spoke with one of the evans engineers and was told that it would just contaminate the system and you would have to start over. that the statement was meant more for the large vehicles that are more of a pain to flush,and water would not have a chemical reaction or damage your bike in any way. its the only thing i've been able to keep in my bike where it belongs:thumbsup:


Mountainman,

Are U sure that Evans is Ethylene Glycol based-Everything I have read says that it is a Propylene Glycol based? NPG-R- I believe the PG in NPG means Propylene Glycol :naughty: :naughty:

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 22, 2005 - 01:19 PM

#15

the NPG is propylene glycol, while the NPG-R is ethylene glycol :naughty: it says it right on the jug

  • offday

Posted April 22, 2005 - 01:33 PM

#16

Hey.. Your best bet for engine temps is to run "engine ice" coolant it will lower your temp up to 15 degrees. The fan mod gets a little tricky. you might get buy with the lighting coil if you disconnect the lights. I doubt it would handle both. Plus in a perfect world you would have a "thermostatic sensor" in the radiator. You wouldn't want to run it all the time because if the engine were running to cold it would not allow for proper expansion of the engine parts and performance would suffer. Just like cars seam to run a little better after they warm up. I run the "engine ice" in my ktm without the fan mod and have never had a cooling issue. even in mid summer in the mojave desert, plodding along, following my wife on her quad. I cost's about $14 for a half gallon but you really dont use that much. Just remember to drain and flush your system before you put it in. :naughty:

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 22, 2005 - 01:39 PM

#17

myself and several others have realized less performance from engine ice than with 50/50. in the tight twisties 1st and 2nd gear mostly. i think engine ice works o.k. if you have a good continuous airflow(such as desert or MX) but get in a tight muddy harescramble and it evacuates faster than a floridian during hurricane season :naughty:

  • new2blu

Posted April 22, 2005 - 06:15 PM

#18

I'm not sure if this would help; but you could richen your jetting just a little bit to keep the engine cooler. Just not too much and foul the plug.

  • mountainriderWR400F

Posted April 22, 2005 - 06:41 PM

#19

no problem,i love to share info especially if it works. there are alot of people afraid to stray from the tried and true,but how else does somthing become tried and true but to try it !! the beard is fake,i shave my a$$ and glue it on my face just to look like a real mountainman :naughty: too bad my a$$ is starting to go grey,i'm gonna look like santa soon :naughty:



LMAO just got home and was reading your post very funny :D

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 22, 2005 - 07:33 PM

#20

I'm not sure if this would help; but you could richen your jetting just a little bit to keep the engine cooler. Just not too much and foul the plug.

i'm not gonna compensate for a inferior product by running afoul :naughty: i kinda like the crispness of a well jetted machine :naughty:




 
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