wr450 v. clapped CR500 in the sand


25 replies to this topic
  • r_dawg1021

Posted December 20, 2004 - 02:23 PM

#1

I'll start out by saying 'No, I'm not gonna sell my WR and get a CR 500'. I spent all day yesterday out in the sand and needless to say it was a long day. I was with a couple quads and I was the only bike.. :cry: My bike just will not handle at all, the front end feels like it's gonna wash out any time I turn a bit. On top of that at the top of 3rd gear I get into a pretty nasty tank slapper(Sag issue or is this just what happens on a bike in the sand?).

After getting stuck pretty badly I let one of the "quad guys" attempt to get me unstuck. Keep in mind this guy was on an early 80's 2-smoke and as far as I know has never been on a 4 stroke. He hopped right on, well, not really it was kinda tall for him :cry:, and attempted a quick second gear start out of the trees and up the sandy steep hill. He made it no further than I did so I thought that was a good thing. He told me if it was his bike he'd take a match to it and burn it. Uh, I don't think so.

We got back to the truck and he unloaded his CR500 and let me take it for a ride. This thing railed through sand like I had imagined my WR would, I could tip the nose in the sand and turn pretty quickly. It made me realize that I'm not a horrible rider but that my WR sux in the sand.

Anybody have some good advice on what I can do to my bike? It isn't a power thing so please no "Buy a JD kit it did wonders for me" comments, I know it's a good kit but it's the least of my worries. I'm running an 8 paddle tire and have the compression\rebound clicked out 2 in the front and 3 in the rear, is that too tight?

Sorry for the ramble. As things are right now I'm not heading back to the sand and will be sticking to the trails until I get something figured out. I know it's possible cause I saw a YZ 450 out there ripping it up. Thanks for any advice :cry:

  • endurodog

Posted December 20, 2004 - 03:23 PM

#2

I had a YZ250 out at Sand Lake (OR) a few years ago and my bro was on a quad. Long story short, we ended up carrying that thing up a back side of dune. Him on the front me on the rear, his end, my end, his end, my end, all the way to the top.

With your issue it could be a tire problem?? Have you done the free mods? I've had my 03 at Glamis and Dumont. With a dirt tire on I can go lots of places and on the hard pack drag hills I can hold with the best of them. On the tall soft dunes I need a sand tire.

A CR500 is a lot lighter and makes it's power quicker and more of it. I think they are in the area of 50 HP where a WR is around 40 HP.

  • Indy_WR450

Posted December 20, 2004 - 03:29 PM

#3

Your issue is 100% tires! :cry: The WR will rail in sand! :cry: :cry: :cry: The stock 739's are useless in sand. :cry:

  • Top

Posted December 20, 2004 - 03:54 PM

#4

Your issue is 100% tires! :cry: The WR will rail in sand! :cry: :cry: :lol: The stock 739's are useless in sand. :cry:

He is running a paddle tire......... :cry:

  • dez4ever

Posted December 20, 2004 - 04:06 PM

#5

Just my .02...but here goes.

I know everytime I've taken a bike into the dunes or any other bike I've ever seen in the dunes...when it gets torn down there is sand in the motor...not to mention what is does to the bearings, bushings and any other type of wear item..So I'm not sure why you would destroy a new WR450 by taking it in the dunes in the first place...but to each his own.

Now that I got that off my chest you still can't really compare a 2-stroke 500 to a 4-stoke 450...kinda like apples to oranges. Clapped out or not a 2-stroke 500 will always have more power than a 4-stroke 450.

As far as the handling issues, you may want to think about checking the height of the fork tubes in the triple clamps. Raising or lowering them will help out quite a bit on how you bikes reacts to you steering inputs. There is also a difference in steering angle on the honda compared to your WR. If you were to take that CR500 out for a wide open desert run you would really find out what head shake is all about.

Good luck!

  • mikedabike

Posted December 20, 2004 - 08:15 PM

#6

You need to stay on the throttle in the dunes. The two stroke has less engine braking so it does not try to bury the front when you let off the gas. I have seen guys go over the bars going down a dune because they chopped the throttle and when the weight transferred forward the front buried and over they went. You can do it, just practice more and you have to adjust your riding style.

  • Indy_WR450

Posted December 20, 2004 - 09:18 PM

#7

He is running a paddle tire......... :cry:

:cry:


He maybe running a paddle tire but certainly not on the front wheel which is where he is having handling problems! :cry:

Here is what he said:

My bike just will not handle at all, the front end feels like it's gonna wash out any time I turn a bit. On top of that at the top of 3rd gear I get into a pretty nasty tank slapper(Sag issue or is this just what happens on a bike in the sand?).

:cry:

  • Desracer

Posted December 20, 2004 - 09:37 PM

#8

A CR 500 is very hard to match up to in the sand its like magic. You do need to get a sand tire for the front end it will help. The eight paddle should work ok but try a six paddle if you can the engine will rev up faster in the deep stuff. Keep the front end light, weight to the back of the bike in a neutral stance if you can. You can have fun out in the sand, but its hard to match a 2 stroke in that element.

  • r_dawg1021

Posted December 20, 2004 - 09:38 PM

#9

I am running a Pirelli MT-21 on the front, DOT tire. I realize it's like comparing apples to oranges but it's all I had to compare to and was more relating to the handling than the engine and what not. I was on the gas hard all day long and didnt have any issues until I dropped down and got into some narrow twisting stuff with a 90 degree turn back up the hill. I guess I just need to stay the heck away from certain things when I am out there. I could climb the bowls no problem, it was just the tight stuff that blew.

Thanks for the advice and you're right, my bike will get ruined by the sand. My plan is to get a cheap quad so I can appease the father-in-law. He likes the sand and I like the dirt.

  • r_dawg1021

Posted December 20, 2004 - 09:40 PM

#10

Your issue is 100% tires! :cry: The WR will rail in sand! :cry: :cry: :cry: The stock 739's are useless in sand. :cry:



I was thinking, you think it might be my tire pressure? I've get the front down to 8 PSi or so...

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  • CraigW

Posted December 20, 2004 - 11:49 PM

#11

That 8 paddle rear is probably pushing the front quite badly in the turns.
I would imagine firmer forks, a 6 paddle rear and a soft front tyre might improve things somewhat.

  • Birdie426

Posted December 21, 2004 - 12:42 AM

#12

Tires, tires, tires! DOT tires are a compromise at best for normal dirt riding...in the sand, they get absolutely zero bite. Get a good sand tire for the front, and keep the gas on. You'll love it.

  • CHRIS_SARICH

Posted December 21, 2004 - 03:20 AM

#13

Just my .02...but here goes.


As far as the handling issues, you may want to think about checking the height of the fork tubes in the triple clamps. Raising or lowering them will help out quite a bit on how you bikes reacts to you steering inputs.

Good luck!


dez4ever is spot on i way 76kg and when i fist got my wr couldnt get over 80kmh without headshake I droped forks about 10mm now i have had it up to 170kmh with next to no shaking. As for sand the front feeling like its about to wash out all the time was just a confidence issue with. I just started to push her harder into corners sure sometimes the front will track a bit but you will be surprised how much it takes to wash out. As for tyres i ride on the sand alot and just run intermediate nobbies at 10psi and have no probs. The Wr will crap all over two stokes on the sand

  • RCannon

Posted December 21, 2004 - 05:01 AM

#14

I cannot help but wonder about the front tire. The 739 are not very good. Your almost better off riding on the bare rim. Sand riding is odd. The conditions can and do change minute to minute. The things that make your WR a great offroad bike are not going to help it so much in sand.

The old two stroke 500's were very powerful and light. They are one of the best bikes ever for the dunes. I woudl suggest getting one of these for your dune riding. It is better than running your WR there. As mentioned before, the sand riding is one of the quickest way to wear out everything on your bike. The sand does get everywhere. Including your wheelberings....dont forget to take the wheels off and clean the dust shields off as well as the axle. Personaly, I only ride my friends machines at the dunes. Mine stays in the garage.

  • Chris_from_Oz

Posted December 21, 2004 - 05:48 AM

#15

If I had to ride a WR in the sand, I would buy an old (early-mid' '90's) WR500 Yamaha 2 stroke. These things come close to the CR/KX 500's as far as outright power goes, and are usually cheap, if you can find one that hasn't been thrashed to death.....

  • Top

Posted December 21, 2004 - 06:05 AM

#16

:cry:


He maybe running a paddle tire but certainly not on the front wheel which is where he is having handling problems! :cry:

Here is what he said:

My bike just will not handle at all, the front end feels like it's gonna wash out any time I turn a bit. On top of that at the top of 3rd gear I get into a pretty nasty tank slapper(Sag issue or is this just what happens on a bike in the sand?).

:cry:

Opps, Gotcha! :cry:

  • Dan_Lorenze

Posted December 21, 2004 - 06:08 AM

#17

I think the best senario is to have a 500cc two stroke setup for the dunes and a WR450 for everything else.. Personaly, I would never take my new WR to the dunes...I've done it for years and I've learned what sand can do..

  • Top

Posted December 21, 2004 - 06:18 AM

#18

I'm going to throw out some thoughts I have. I bought my WR because I wanted a "All around bike" Not something that is just for MX or woods, or dunes. I wanted a bike that I could ride any where and still have fun and it would do good in all areas. I still believe that the WR fits my needs the best. I ride the dunes too, I'm not into being the best, jumping the highest, nor climbing the biggest dune. The reason I ride the dunes is the lack of areas to ride during the winter. I wash my bike after every ride and do the air cleaner after every ride too. It's a deal I have with my son. When we get home I wash the bikes and he dries, then we both go over all of the bikes and look for missing nuts or bolts. We do the air cleaners together too. I guess you could say it's a "Father and Son" type deal. I know I'm going off topic too, sorry for that. My questions are; Why is it not good to run our bikes in sand? They are "dirt" bikes, right? Why is it okay for quads to ride the sand and not "dirt" bikes? I keep hearing people telling me that sand is bad, why is it bad if your rear careful with your maintenance of the bikes? Sorry to get off topic though........ :cry:

  • endurodog

Posted December 21, 2004 - 07:00 AM

#19

I forgot a real obvious helper to handling in the sand. Stiffen your suspension. Try a few clicks in on your compresion settings.

  • firezwr426

Posted December 21, 2004 - 08:19 AM

#20

here is a good link to check out......

www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198012

hope it will help you... :cry: not sure if gearing is a problem for you or not, but a good one to read anyways....




 
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