Edelbrock Carb problems again


126 replies to this topic
  • Old_Man_Time

Posted December 11, 2004 - 07:25 PM

#1

:cry: Since I have owned my Edelbrock carb it has not worked more than 4 1/2 months without major troubles. :cry:

After owning it for 4 1/2 months the fuel shut off valve started sticking shut not allowing fuel into the fuel bowl. It was intermittant at first and then became the norm for the bike to shut down in the middle of nowhere. I have owned the carb for 1 1/2 years but not enjoyed flawless performance for more than 4 1/2 months at a time.

I ended up sending it back to Edelbrock last May and they put a brand new bowl on it and mailed it back to me. I thought it was fixed and the bike ran like a dream for about 4 months and then 1 month ago it started doing the same thing. Today I could not get the fuel valve to come loose and it would not let any fuel into the bowl. The fuel flows freely when you pull the fuel line and turn the valve on but thats as far as it gets. So now I must pull the carb again. Edelbrock obviously doesn't really know whats wrong and got lucky for a few months. Im going back to the stock carb.

When I have time I will break down the Edelbrock carb maybe I can find the problem that Edelbrock's top people could not find. :cry:

This is not an isolated incident since two other TT members have emailed me asking if I ever got the problem resolved. I told them about Edelbrock replacing the bowl (which I never understood as a fix) and that I was happy with the carb. At least one of them mailed his back to Edelbrock and had the same thing done. Now my question to those who have had this problem with the QS Edelbrock carb on a XR650R is: Did any of you finally get the problem permanently resolved? If so what did you do?

I'm not seeking comment's from QS fans. I already know what you have to say and I agree with you when the carb works. I want answers not a Edelbrock sales committee.

  • mikekay

Posted December 11, 2004 - 07:31 PM

#2

I am right there with ya. That has stopped me in my tracks 4-5 times in the last 3 years.

Its ALWAYS the same thing. The fuel inlet valve sticks. When i take it apart i find a little bit of gunk built up that is keeping it from sliding open. I think the angle is wrong--it should come in steeper--or maybe make a larger valve--more surface area. Anyway--i am totally right there with you and that pisses me off as well. I have to ride with the correct allen head wrench (its SAE!) so i can take the carb apart in the field--just in case.

So for sure the carb is not perfect. Gunk and maybe varnish do stick the fuel valve shut....and also the pumper linkage can stick....

I have posted these problems on here 2-3 times....but good to read -- or not good-- that others have the same issue.

I suspect its in part dirty fuel, but i cant prove it....

later,
Mike

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted December 11, 2004 - 07:44 PM

#3

I have posted these problems on here 2-3 times....but good to read -- or not good-- that others have the same issue.

I suspect its in part dirty fuel, but i cant prove it....

later,
Mike


I have wondered about dirty fuel myself but that still would end up being a weakness in the Edelbrock carb. You see I run the same fuel in my KTM 525EXC and its pumper carb's fuel valve never sticks closed. Maybe I should consider a different brand pumper but I think the edelbrock is the only one that does not flood when you dump the bike which happens rarely now days. I definately would not recommend this carb to anyone wanting Honda reliability. One thing I can say about the stock carb, it has never left me high and dry. :cry:

  • roadcam

Posted December 12, 2004 - 07:01 AM

#4

I just wonder if you are using gasoline with ethanol mixed in, like some states do ... ethanol in the gasoline caused lots of carb problems years ago in automobiles because the ethanol affected some plastic parts ... I know this is a stretch, but maybe something to consider ...

  • BRP27

Posted December 12, 2004 - 08:19 AM

#5

What fuel shut off valve are we talking about. The float shut off valve, inside the bowl? I have only had the QS for a few months so I need to know so I can fix mine when it starts sticking :cry:

I am running a layup gas treatment in my gas to prevent varnish because I wont be riding as offten because of the weather. Maybe I should run with the treatment year round (Sta bil)

  • BWB63

Posted December 12, 2004 - 09:22 AM

#6

I was at the Edelbrock shop and they made a new valve that is to fix this. My carbuetor had problems the first time on the bike at there shop! They put a new bowl with the new valve and stuff on it then. They just changed to way the fuel entered so, I don't see it fixing it.

  • TimBrp

Posted December 12, 2004 - 10:18 AM

#7

I'd be very interested to see what comes of this. I put one on my christmas list for the girl and I'd be one unhappy camper if it happend to me. $400.00 bucks for what?? :cry:

  • mikekay

Posted December 12, 2004 - 11:49 AM

#8

I am taking the Edelbrock QS to the Dakar Rallye. There is no way in hell i would try that race on the Keihin--it would be a horrible experience picking the bike up in the sand, clearing it out, and re-kicking it--over and over and over again--can you imagine doing that thru 700 miles of sand dunes? There are days i will crash 20+ times--that would mean kicking the bike 200-300 times in a day, not to mention the kicking has to be done on level ground for the bike to start...so lots of pushing the bike down the dunes to get to level ground---no way!! The Keihin has LOTS of issues and a couple are major. If you have ever stalled the BRP on a long uphill in the mud and roots or in the dez with the stock carb--then you know what i am talking about.

The Edelbrock has great advantages:
Better fuel economy
Way easier starting
Adjusts to altitude
Easy to tune
Wont flood

It has one slight hiccup--the float valve every once in awhile sticks. Its very very very easy to fix when it sticks, just unbolt it, take the bottom off, and clean out the passage and valve. Takes me about 10 minutes.

This hiccup aside--IMHO its still the best aftermarket part for the bike. Most after-market parts have some sort of issue or another--and i dont mean to be apologizing for the edelbrock carb--but i just want to put some perspective on this string.

Like i said--the only way i would race the Dakar on a 650R is with the confidence and ease of starting in all situations that the Edelbrock (almost) allways delivers.

  • BWB63

Posted December 12, 2004 - 12:11 PM

#9

Maybe if the inside was coated with some kind of teflon.

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted December 12, 2004 - 03:17 PM

#10

The Edelbrock has great advantages:
Better fuel economy
Way easier starting
Adjusts to altitude
Easy to tune
Wont flood

It has one slight hiccup--the float valve every once in awhile sticks. Its very very very easy to fix when it sticks, just unbolt it, take the bottom off, and clean out the passage and valve. Takes me about 10 minutes.


Mikekay, I have not found all of the above positives true for my carb. I get better fuel economy in open desert running with the stock carb than I do with the Edelbrock. In tight mountain trails they are about the same. I Also had a more powerful acceleration with the stock carb. The rest of your observations I agree with.

Mine does not fix as easy as yours does. I have pulled my bowl off and cleaned the seat and fuel valve. This sometimes did not even fix the bike for one ride. For me once this issue developes it does not go away. When the carb was brand new it was one of the best mods I purchased for about 4 1/2 months. After Edelbrock put a new bowl on my carb once again it was good for about 4 1/2 months.

I agree that the start procedure is a pain when you dump a bike with the stock carb but appearently my stock carb was better tuned than yours cause I did not have to get to a flat area to start the bike when I dumped it on a hill. The most likely reason for that was I raised the stock float level 2+ mm so that it would not continue to back flow into the air box on a hill.

If my Edelbrock never failed on me it would be my choice hands down over the stock carb. When it works right it is a dream. The power delivery is sooooooo smooooooth.

Some of us think alike, I was just thinking about a Teflon coating myself. Maybe that would work or the teflon coating itself may prevent a proper seat of the fuel valve. I don't know how well teflon would hold up to fuel immersion but it may be a worth while thought. If the teflon started flaking it would become a negative issue.

I too have found fuel addatives ineffective against this issue.

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  • BWB63

Posted December 12, 2004 - 05:35 PM

#11

I tell you once you take the time to get a Mikuni TM40 dialed in you will never look back at the stock for anything! I don't understand how the stock carburetor can out accelerat an Edelbrock? Something is wrong with the Edelbrock if that's the case. A pumper carburetor setup right should just be exhilarating Quick at full wack of the throttle :cry: My Mikuni was way smoother then the Edelbrock but, it has a ton of jets. It never gave me one bit of trouble...never, ever, noda.....none. I had to see what all the fuss was about the Edelbrock I haven't had it very long, maybe 40 miles. It has been bored out though. The stock Edelbrock is a 36mm X 42mm, mine is a 40mm X 42mm. I don't think I would want a Carburetor that got stuck out in the middle of a sand storm million of miles from anywhere and have to take it apart to fix it....I would have my Mikuni on for something like that.

  • mikekay

Posted December 12, 2004 - 06:28 PM

#12

For sure raising the float 1-2 mm will help it stop pissing--i think i was the original poster of that mod on here a few years ago--i have several personalities!!!

If you are getting better milage or the same betwen the Edelbrock and Keihin then the Edelbrock needle is set to rich or the pumper is set to rich or both. Very likely its both.
For sure the edelbrock should get much better milage and for sure the acceleration should be WAY better than the Keihin-all mods considered. I raced the Keihin with all the mods for a complete season on my BRP....plus i have riden at least 20 different 650R's for 3-4 days each one, and raced 6 different 650R's-all of them in multiple races- 4 of them set up by factory or ex-factory works mechanics--each of whom does things 'their own way' -- its all enough to know what set ups work and what doesnt for desert and Baja. For sure i dont know about the woods. The Edelbrock is the best carb, but like anything has to be set up correctly. For sure i ride more 650R's per month with Keihins than with the Edelbrock--but not by choice--thats my 'job' !!
For sure the Edelbrock is the way to go--IMHO--one frustrated rider aside. I dont mean to be disrespectfull--but i am 100% sure your carb just isnt set up correctly-and that is the source of much of your issues--not the carb itself.

I clean out my race tanks every race--and its surprising how much gunk there is in there. Play ride tanks i dont clean often--only every 3-4K miles--and its common to find up to 1/2 inch of water, plus 1/2 teaspoon or so or more of gunk!!!! Those filters on the petcock are good, but not perfect.
Frankly i dont think a Keihin would do any better at cycling through the gunk than the Edelbrock. I really dont. If anything it will be the reverse--the design of the Edelbrock should allow more cycling of gunk--and thats what is causing the float valve issue.

Just some perspective here...i have 3 edelbrocks on 3 bikes. My close riding/racing buddies have another 3 edelbrocks. Of the six that i can say i know very well--for a couple years each, only mine has ever had any issues with fuel starvation--and its about 1 problem per 10,000 miles.

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted December 13, 2004 - 12:09 AM

#13

For sure raising the float 1-2 mm will help it stop pissing--i think i was the original poster of that mod on here a few years ago--i have several personalities!!!

If you are getting better milage or the same betwen the Edelbrock and Keihin then the Edelbrock needle is set to rich or the pumper is set to rich or both. Very likely its both.
For sure the edelbrock should get much better milage and for sure the acceleration should be WAY better than the Keihin-all mods considered. I raced the Keihin with all the mods for a complete season on my BRP....plus i have riden at least 20 different 650R's for 3-4 days each one, and raced 6 different 650R's-all of them in multiple races- 4 of them set up by factory or ex-factory works mechanics--each of whom does things 'their own way' -- its all enough to know what set ups work and what doesnt for desert and Baja. For sure i dont know about the woods. The Edelbrock is the best carb, but like anything has to be set up correctly. For sure i ride more 650R's per month with Keihins than with the Edelbrock--but not by choice--thats my 'job' !!
For sure the Edelbrock is the way to go--IMHO--one frustrated rider aside. I dont mean to be disrespectfull--but i am 100% sure your carb just isnt set up correctly-and that is the source of much of your issues--not the carb itself.

I clean out my race tanks every race--and its surprising how much gunk there is in there. Play ride tanks i dont clean often--only every 3-4K miles--and its common to find up to 1/2 inch of water, plus 1/2 teaspoon or so or more of gunk!!!! Those filters on the petcock are good, but not perfect.
Frankly i dont think a Keihin would do any better at cycling through the gunk than the Edelbrock. I really dont. If anything it will be the reverse--the design of the Edelbrock should allow more cycling of gunk--and thats what is causing the float valve issue.

Just some perspective here...i have 3 edelbrocks on 3 bikes. My close riding/racing buddies have another 3 edelbrocks. Of the six that i can say i know very well--for a couple years each, only mine has ever had any issues with fuel starvation--and its about 1 problem per 10,000 miles.


Mikekay, I don't doubt anything you say about your experience riding the XR650R. I have only owned two and only ridden three different XR650Rs. Two of them my own and one of them my riding partners. I bought my first one the day they hit the showroom floor in 2000. I put over 5000 miles on it with no problems except the initial float level problem. A Honda racer named Tabor out of Wenatchee Honda told me about that fix. Once I raised the float I had no problem for over 5000 miles. I did not own an Edelbrock until I purchased my second XR650R. My second one is more finicky than my first one. Even the stock carb requires leaner jetting than the first one and altitudes effects it more. My first one, once set up did not need any changes for altitude or anything else. My riding partners bike is a lot like my first one. Once set up correctly on the stock carb he has no problems what so ever.

If anything I run my Edelbrock a hair lean. When it runs right it runs at all altitudes with no adjustment needed. My adjustments have nothing to do with the shut off valve sticking. Fuel mileage may be due to my settings. I run the middle needle at 19 to 21 clicks out. It came to me set at 22 clicks out from full rich. I tried 13 clicks out but that was way too rich even in the lower elevations. If anything I should be getting better mileage set this way.
The Edelbrock carb in open desert gets about 33 mpg and the stock in open desert gets about 35 mpg. In the moutains the Edelbrock and stock carb get about 20 to 21 mpg. Oh yeah, I have a stage one hotcam also. The bike shows no sign of richness at the tail pipe. Believe me the tail pipe gets a dark black soot on it when the carb is rich. Right now you can run your finger inside the tail pipe and you might get a little brown on you hand.

The Edelbrock, when it runs right it is so smooth and throttle control is very nice due to the smoothness. I ride every week generally about 6 + hours a week and in the summer I ride 2 times a week so the fuel hardly has a chance to get stale on me. I thought of water in the tank and have checked for it, put Heet in the tank as a temporary fix if it was water. Even emptied the tank and wiped it down on the inside. Put new fuel in only to have the problem continue.

I wish I got 10,000 miles on mine before this problem developed. I would not be complaining at all cause it would not have happened yet. If the Edelbrock carb is so fussy that it cannot be ridden reliably without emptying the fuel tank regularly like a pro racer then this carb is not for the average Joe like me, who just wants to ride with no fuss.

Concerning performance Im just going by the seat of my pants. When I wack the Edelbrock its nice to have no hesitation. To avoid hesitation with the stock carb I rev it before I wack it. The stock carb just seems to pull harder once it hits for me. Maybe if I stuck with the rich settings (13 clicks) the Edelbrock would pull harder but that would only work in low elevations.

I generally ride 3000 to 5000 feet often with varied temperatures due to altitude and deep valleys that do not see daylight. The Edelbrock does all this wonderfully when the fuel shut off valve keeps functioning. I have absolutely no complaint about the Edelbrock when the fuel valve functions right.

Im going to try one more time to go in and really clean inside the bowl and valve. If I can get 4 1/2 months between cleaning that would be ok, still a lot more work than stock. But it would still be worth it. What I got going on right now is not worth it.

I doubt that most of us who have had this problem have been as fortunate as you. 10,000 trouble free miles, wow, how could you ever complain about that?

Another point, I do not consider a couple miles per gallon less fuel economy a problem nor do I consider the difference in the way the bike pulls on the Edelbrock a problem. Again let me make it very clear. When the fuel valve does not stick I love the Edelbrock over stock.

I have never had the fuel valve stick on the stock carb and were talking the same bike, same tank and even the same fuel.

I will take what your saying to heart and try to work with it. I realize there are a lot of satisfied Edelbrock customers which makes me want to find the problem. I truly want to be a satisfied customer but am not at this point.

  • mikekay

Posted December 13, 2004 - 10:12 AM

#14

Ok--if you are running it a bit lean (pops a bit on hard decelleration), then the fuel economy and the poor off-idle acceleration is most likely caused by the pumper setting. If the pump is set to rich it will use to much fuel, and it wont respond off-idle as crisp as it should-it will bog a bit. Too lean and you get good milage but also a lack of crisp clean hit off-idle... Sounds to me like that is the problem-a pump set to 'rich'.

You are the only person i know of who gets better fuel economy with the Keihin vs. the Edelbrock. I cant help but think its an issue with the way its set up.

Yep between the 3 XR's i have with 3 Edelbrocks--plus the miles on my buddies edelbrock bikes--it works out to a hiccup every 10,000 miles or so. I wish i could say that for so so so many other aftermarket parts!!

respectfully,
Mike

  • BRP27

Posted December 13, 2004 - 10:53 AM

#15

Who else has seen this problem?

Are we talking about the float valve?

  • TimBrp

Posted December 13, 2004 - 11:57 AM

#16

So if I bought the Edelbrock and cleaned the carb once a year figure every 2,000 miles or so, I should be all set?

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted December 13, 2004 - 12:34 PM

#17

So if I bought the Edelbrock and cleaned the carb once a year figure every 2,000 miles or so, I should be all set?


I can't answer that for you my carb has never made it a year without problems. I'm gonna clean and lubricate it and see what happens but I'm not expecting a years riding without trouble. I'd be happy if cleaning once every four months make it dependable. I'm not sure cleaning it will even fix it. I have tried that before but maybe this time if I be extra careful to make sure I do not miss anything, it may help.

  • TimBrp

Posted December 13, 2004 - 12:45 PM

#18

What a bummer. I was all pshyced about this sitting under the tree for me. I'd hate to have to carry around the stock carb in my fanny pak.. :cry: Someone did mention additives in the gas around certain locations that may lead to these issues. Any truth to that?

  • BWB63

Posted December 13, 2004 - 12:46 PM

#19

Maybe it's time to send it to Edelbrock with this thread! I know it stinks being without a bike because of what someone else missed or did wrong but, maybe you have a bum one from the factory and you will do nothing but, fight this one till it is replaced??? :cry: I was major impressed with Edelbrock and the way they treated me.

  • MotorPsychoSport

Posted December 13, 2004 - 05:27 PM

#20

OMT,

I just recently had the same problem with my EB carb on my BRP. It turns out that the VP Ultimate 4 fuel I was using does not agree with the EB carb. Once I'd get the carb cleaned and running it would be gummed up a few weeks later. I sent it in to Edlebrock and they did a warranty clean up and replaced a few parts in the carb. The bike runs great now and I will never use the VP Ultimate 4 fuel again in my bike unless I modify the motor and increase the compresion ratio.

I sure do hope that this problem does not continue to happen with 91 pump gas. Even if my problem was not the the race gas I sure do hope that this is not going to be and ongoing problem. We all live and learn and this race gas issue for me was a learning experience. Chris at Edlebrock did tell me that if I wanted to run the race gas that I should run the carb dry or drain it after every ride.

Jeff





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