2006 Yz450f


64 replies to this topic
  • BC3

Posted December 04, 2004 - 02:23 PM

#21

Lets see here, 03 04 05......steel frames...four speed geraboxs, average price
Hmmmmmmmmm about what 6500.00? maybe a little more ......you spend
maybe another 1500.00 for acc. to personilize your RIDE.....Race/ Trail ride it
for a year......try to sell it maybe tops 3500.....Right? DUDE how much do you think that YZ450 with an Aluminum Frame is gonna cost? and the resale price
after a year or so......No thanks, I think my 03 is plenty fast and will be just fine
Aluminum frame......What do you think its gonna do.....make you Jeremy McGrath..... :cry:

[COLOR=Blue]BC[/COLOR]

  • Beef

Posted December 04, 2004 - 11:46 PM

#22

I'm not positive, but I think the current frame is actually chrome-molly...not steel. Anyone know for sure? Anyway, I don't care about the weight savings of the Al frame, but if they could drop the center of gravity a little, and perhapse lower the seat hight slightly, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

  • machoman_#618

Posted December 05, 2004 - 03:10 AM

#23

im 5 ' 7" tall I don't have a problem. How is the center of gravity to high......Its not but about 14 inches?Really please explain your thought process.Yes I got an 05 model.I also race harescrambles, where height and wt and center of gravity makes a big difference.No stud either Im 41,lol.

  • yz_for_me

Posted December 05, 2004 - 07:22 PM

#24

I'm not positive, but I think the current frame is actually chrome-molly...not steel. Anyone know for sure?


Chromoly is steel. It is just a different steel alloy. Plain old carbon steel is iron plus carbon. "Chromoly" steel is an alloy made of iron, carbon, chromium, molybdenum and manganese. It is stronger than plain carbon steel, so you can use less of it and still make a strong frame that is lighter then one made from carbon steel.

  • thumper245

Posted December 05, 2004 - 11:08 PM

#25

I dont have the 450, but I do have the 400. I also have a XR650L and the diff. is night and day. The 400 has way less weight and it is lower and lots more power. The two things that I wish the 400 has are a softer seat and another gear (I ride here in the local dessert). Lots of open roads with the slow tech. stuff. The lower gears are great but I want another gear for the wide open stuff. I have not ridden the 450 with the 4 speed so I do not know how they handle but I would like another gear for what I have. I love the lesser weight of the 400 compaired to the 650L. If you do not like the weight of the frame just go for a ride on the honda pig and then you will like yours sooo much more.

  • motomike137

Posted December 06, 2004 - 08:58 AM

#26

I keep hearing you guys talking about the aluminum frame lowering the center of gravity and I don't get it. It will potentially be lighter overall than the current frame but that will not automatically lower the center of gravity. In order to that you need to move the weight around relative to the overall weight ovf the bike. You need to do things like mount the motor lower or take content out of the top end ( single cam versus twin). So what I'm saying is they could stay with chromoly and still lower the CG. It really doesn't have much to do with frame material

  • Beef

Posted December 06, 2004 - 09:29 AM

#27

Agreed. But they are more likely to change the frame geometry with a complete frame overhaul. Personally, I'd be happy with the chromolly and a re-designed frame geometry.

  • SureBlue

Posted December 06, 2004 - 11:56 AM

#28

Well, Wrooster's gonna like this...
had a look today at my crystal ball: 2006 Yamahas will have the aluminum frame, but the 2nd generation engines are not ready yet. 2007 we will have an option to easy add the GYTR 5th gear. Also the new engines will stay 4-speed stock.
Happy independence day, Finland! :cry:

  • myoung

Posted December 06, 2004 - 12:30 PM

#29

I keep hearing you guys talking about the aluminum frame lowering the center of gravity and I don't get it. It will potentially be lighter overall than the current frame but that will not automatically lower the center of gravity. In order to that you need to move the weight around relative to the overall weight ovf the bike. You need to do things like mount the motor lower or take content out of the top end ( single cam versus twin). So what I'm saying is they could stay with chromoly and still lower the CG. It really doesn't have much to do with frame material


I agree, in fact, when I think about this it seems to me, if anything, an aluminum frame is going to have a slightly higher center of gravity. A lot of the lower weight from the steel frame that puts the center of gravity where it currently is will be gone, yet the weight of the tank, seat, radiators, top end of engine, and any other high mounted items will still be the same. The only weight reduced from the top will be the backbone of the frame which will still have to be somewhat heavy in order to provide strenght. Unless Yamaha completely redesigns the bike for a lower center of gravity, they'll more than likely just do the same as the YZ's and make the same design frame but out of aluminum. I'd be interested to see some numbers on wether the center of gravity on the new aluminum frame YZ's went down, up, or stayed the same.

  • Ga426owner

Posted December 06, 2004 - 12:34 PM

#30

I keep hearing you guys talking about the aluminum frame lowering the center of gravity and I don't get it. It will potentially be lighter overall than the current frame but that will not automatically lower the center of gravity. In order to that you need to move the weight around relative to the overall weight ovf the bike. You need to do things like mount the motor lower or take content out of the top end ( single cam versus twin). So what I'm saying is they could stay with chromoly and still lower the CG. It really doesn't have much to do with frame material


I also agree - I would rather see Yamaha change the entire frame geometry to achieve a lower CG - I dont care what material it is made of - Aluminum seems to be the more popular material for newer bikes. I assume the weight savings on the 05 YZ's due to the frame will lower the overall weight of the YZF's if they choose Aluminum. I welcome these changes - I have not heard of any new motor either - I like the maintenance of the 5 valve - please do not copy Honda..... :cry:

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  • rush66

Posted December 06, 2004 - 12:45 PM

#31

My guess for 06 is an aluminum frame with different geometery. Wet sump Separate oils for trans and engine. Different gas tank design to further lower the weight.

  • BC3

Posted December 06, 2004 - 08:45 PM

#32

I think what their saying is Aluminum frames are lighter everywhere.....with the same mass above center line (aluminum) would give you a lower center of gravity cause the weight would be less compared to steel....less weight..
not as top heavy= lower center of gravity. :cry:

Think about it :cry:

  • machoman_#618

Posted December 07, 2004 - 03:12 PM

#33

If you stand up is the pegs not the true center of gravity? So I suppose everyone is wanting lower foot pegs on the 06. :cry:

  • myoung

Posted December 07, 2004 - 03:40 PM

#34

I think what their saying is Aluminum frames are lighter everywhere.....with the same mass above center line (aluminum) would give you a lower center of gravity cause the weight would be less compared to steel....less weight..
not as top heavy= lower center of gravity. :cry:

Think about it :cry:


I know what you're saying, but depending on how they have to build the frame so it is as strong as a steel one, there will be some areas of the frame that will be reduced in weight more than others. If it proportionately loses more weight up in the backbone and headtube area than the lower areas of the frame, then it will have a lower CG. However, if i needs extra material thickness to retain strenght at the top, but they have a significant loss in weight at the lower frame, then it gets a higher CG.

I guess what I should ask is, did Yamaha design the new alum frame YZ's with a proportionate weight reduction throughout the entire frame, or did they just shave weight everywhere they could and end up with a disproportionate weight loss compared to the steel. Does anybody know?

Do you see what I mean? Just because they build the whole frame out of aluminum doesn't mean it will be the same percentage of being lighter throughout. Couple that to the parts that will stay weigh the same as a steel frame bike and the potential for a higher CG is there depending on how they end up building the frame.

Think about it. :cry:

  • machoman_#618

Posted December 07, 2004 - 04:49 PM

#35

Stack pennies on top of each other one at a time until you get say........15 high. Were is the center of gravity? the botton one? the middle one? or the top one? Ahh you say grasshopper the center of gravity is at the bottom in the middle of the coin. It can be moved forward or backwards........side to side. but not up or down without without changing its length.......not height

they don't just lighten up a frame or make a smaller tank. that don't work for race bikes. You guys are forgetting moments of Intertia. Whats this grasshopper? This is formulas figured by multiplying elementary particles of area or mass by the squares of their distances from reference points. Reference points being wheels, pegs and most likely the motor. Not one point like just the frame but from different axis points on the bike. Thus this will figure the center of gravity, but then again this will change with different speeds of which one travels. See what Im saying? Just trying to help some youngins

  • John_Lorenz

Posted December 07, 2004 - 04:54 PM

#36

Does anyone know if Yamaha is planning on putting the Aluminum frame on the 450 next year? Or are they just going to keep using it as a sales gimmick for the 2-smokes, until the EPA finally pulls the plug on them?


I heard it us going to be transparant hardtocomebyum. I also heard that the 2006 will have light air tires and new see through rubber elastic bubble plastic that self molds itself to the riders butt.

I read on the globe they are experimenting with sproketless teeth as well
I know for sure it is blue
well thats what I heard :cry:

  • machoman_#618

Posted December 07, 2004 - 05:18 PM

#37

Just thought of another way for you men to see it. Draw a triangle......now at the bottom of the triangle draw a circle, center of the 90 angle on each end......at the top draw a straight line...........the straight line would be your seat.......the circles would be your wheels and the center of them your axles.......just from looking where would be your foot pegs? Just from line of sight? You know like your drawing a bike. This is your center of gravity. THE PEGS!!!!!!!If you ride sitting down without loading your pegs with weight the center of gravity becomes your seat. What Im getting at is the lowest point for which the average weight rest is your center of gravity.......If balanced. This remains true because of points of contact with different elements working together. Same reason people like different handle bar postions and height. Hope Ive shed some light for you.

  • Butta

Posted December 07, 2004 - 06:32 PM

#38

im 5 ' 7" tall I don't have a problem. How is the center of gravity to high......Its not but about 14 inches?Really please explain your thought process.Yes I got an 05 model.I also race harescrambles, where height and wt and center of gravity makes a big difference.No stud either Im 41,lol.



Ok, I absolutely promise you that the CG is higher than 14". (unless CG stands for clearance-ground). If every bike had it's CG magically located at the footpegs, then all of physics would disappear. CG is the center of mass, because that is where the force of gravity can be centralized for easy computation. Aircraft rely heavily on CG and weight calculations, because the CG directly affects the way in which the mass of the machine reacts to outside forces. A body of mass ALWAYS rotates around it's CG. So, that being said, as a bike goes through the whoops, watch to see what point on the bike seems to be still (the front of the bike will be moving up when contact is made with the front tire, and the back will appear to be going down, somewhere this changes from an upward movement to a downward movement...at the changeover (or fulcrum) is the CG, center of mass, therefore the place the object rotates around).

It's elementary.....

:cry:

  • myoung

Posted December 07, 2004 - 06:38 PM

#39

Stack pennies on top of each other one at a time until you get say........15 high. Were is the center of gravity? the botton one? the middle one? or the top one? Ahh you say grasshopper the center of gravity is at the bottom in the middle of the coin. It can be moved forward or backwards........side to side. but not up or down without without changing its length.......not height

they don't just lighten up a frame or make a smaller tank. that don't work for race bikes. You guys are forgetting moments of Intertia. Whats this grasshopper? This is formulas figured by multiplying elementary particles of area or mass by the squares of their distances from reference points. Reference points being wheels, pegs and most likely the motor. Not one point like just the frame but from different axis points on the bike. Thus this will figure the center of gravity, but then again this will change with different speeds of which one travels. See what Im saying? Just trying to help some youngins


Who you callin a youngin? :cry:

Geeezzz......there's no need to be condecending, you could just explain your point. I can't forgetting something I didn't know in the first place.

Are you saying that it doesn't matter where mass is located horizontally or vertically, the CG will still be the same between an aluminum frame or steel? That seems very hard to believe. I always understood, the higher the weight, the higher the CG, hence, the point I was making about possible disproportionate weight loss between a steel frame and aluminum and the possibility of a higher weight/mass on aluminum compared to steel. Please, no smart a$$ reply, just asking a question you feel you know the answer to. :cry:

  • machoman_#618

Posted December 07, 2004 - 08:10 PM

#40

Myoung, sorry if I came off that way. I guess Im just friskie this evening. Im truely sorry.I just finished repling to your response and was prof reading it, so not to get bombed by the spell police and I LOST SERVICE!!!!! I will reply tomorrow. I really like your thoughts and studing on this.





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