Bad talk about the XR650R


113 replies to this topic
  • huntmaster

Posted April 07, 2006 - 12:35 PM


What desert or cross country race does 100mph all day long?

Willow Springs for one! Otherwise, the one's with knobbies will still be regularly hitting 100+ mph (or even 125 mph in Johnny Campbell's case) if not averaging that, if one must split hairs. The point, is that you can gear any 450 MX or open class off road bike to run that if you want...it's just a matter of which one's come back as bits and pieces in a wheel barrow after 1,000 (OK 700) miles! With the Honda you can turn around and do it again. But then we already knew that didn't we?

  • BAJAHUSKYS

Posted April 07, 2006 - 11:53 PM


Willow Springs for one! Otherwise, the one's with knobbies will still be regularly hitting 100+ mph (or even 125 mph in Johnny Campbell's case) if not averaging that, if one must split hairs. The point, is that you can gear any 450 MX or open class off road bike to run that if you want...it's just a matter of which one's come back as bits and pieces in a wheel barrow after 1,000 (OK 700) miles! With the Honda you can turn around and do it again. But then we already knew that didn't we?


Last I checked, Willow Springs wasn't a desert race? And Johnny Campbell never averages 100+ mph in any off road race to date, except that Dirt Bike shootout years ago on the lake bed. More like an average of 54 or 56 mph max over a course 500 to 1000 miles along. The KX 500's did this feat for years before they withdrew from Baja. Husqvarnas are at the point where they will do it now with their new TE 510s. But then we already know that too? Ontario is a long ways away from desert and Baja isn't it? :thumbsup:

  • huntmaster

Posted April 08, 2006 - 03:36 AM


Ontario is a long ways away from desert and Baja isn't it?

I've ridden there three times as a matter of fact. As for racing... yes, speeds do get up to and 100 mph there as you no doubt know, but stubbornly refuse to acknowledge! As the sole valid expert on Baja here I'm sure you already know that speeds from 20-120+ mph are required to average 60 mph or so, so I don't understand the point of trying to deny the triple digit speeds that are regularly achieved...unless you have a bike that can't do it... or simply blows up trying! If there are any slow technical sections at all....you won't average 60 mph there on a bike with an 80 mph top speed! :thumbsup:

  • mjlang

Posted April 08, 2006 - 09:22 AM


:bonk: I sure don't have an arguement for that :thumbsup:
I was Just waiting for the KTM win! :thumbsup:
You always say it like it is.......
But, Honda did win :confused: and the KTM 700 :bonk:
What happened it's not for sale :bonk:
Thanks for the reply and without adout the XR is a thing of the past don't let yours go :bonk:


The XR 650R does one thing well, it survives the Baja 1000 better than anyone else. That's a fact. This is the only place in the planet where Red is the undisputed champion. Because they are the 600 lb gorilla in Baja, they fund this effort, but like Mike said, they are not very competative anywhere else. Just about everyother type of off-road racing is owned by KTM. The ISDE is owned by the Euro bikes.

I've owned 650Rs, raced them and its a love/hate thing for me. You race one because Honda pits are money in Baja, no doubt. As far as owning one, I spent thousands of dollars mine to make it 'accepable' in the power and handling departments only to realize it still weighs 300+ lbs and makes mediocre power. My 2001 only had three changes from the 2006 we raced in Baja and those were minor (that did not include the bold new graphics). That's pretty sad when you look at all the other bikes in town, especially the Euro machines that need very little to become spectacular racing machines and my 650R needs a laundry list of fixes (See Bruce's Web Site) and upgrades. On the flip side, you can get one for 5500 bucks OTD dump 3K in to it and still be on par with the cost of one of the new 450s.

The one thing that I do love about the 650R... A BRP with a pipe hammering a set of whoops at race speed, SOUNDS LIKE BAJA. There is nothing else with that growl.

  • Triumphs

Posted April 08, 2006 - 03:20 PM


More like an average of 54 or 56 mph max over a course 500 to 1000 miles along.

I think someone is in denial. Even the camera guys in Dust to Glory were hitting 115 mph...nevermind Campbell & Co. No one here has said anything about averaging 120 mph...but as stated elsewhere these are the maximum speeds achieved to "average" 55-60 mph. You have to make up for the 30-40 mph sections somehow and an 80 mph bike isn't going to cut it unless you want to lose. A fragile "racing" fourstroke isn't going to cut it either unless you wan't to break. Of course, despite riding there too...I'm from New York so what do I know! :thumbsup:

  • KASUYAHO

Posted April 09, 2006 - 06:58 AM


The XR 650R does one thing well, it survives the Baja 1000 better than anyone else. That's a fact. This is the only place in the planet where Red is the undisputed champion. Because they are the 600 lb gorilla in Baja, they fund this effort, but like Mike said, they are not very competative anywhere else. Just about everyother type of off-road racing is owned by KTM. The ISDE is owned by the Euro bikes.


There is another place the XR650R dominates, and thats the Aussie Safari.
2nd for alot of years, and the reason why it was second because the guys who won it all the ime was Andy Caldecott RIP (Dakar).
The last time the Safari was run it came first and i few mates that were in it said it was the hardest ever Safari in history.
One stage was soft sand with tight corners stopping and starting for 300 miles.
KTM would have won but they blow up, and not just one, a 3rd of them did.
I hear people say that the BRP has not been changed for years, so what, why change some thing that works.
And i hear guys say it is to heavy.
Well folks how heavy is a KTM 640?
Some of them say oh but my berg is lighter or Husky, well are they as realiable as the BRP, will it do as many miles as the BRP, like mine has near 20k on it now and it don't use oil.
Is the KTM 660 which is heavier as realiable as the BRP? And it wins Dakar!
Nope it is not as realiable.
And we are not i hope going to compare the BRP to a 450 are we, because there differnt size bikes so why do that.
Yes lighter bikes are easier to ride, but can a rider ride 500 miles flat out 100%. Not even the best in the world can do that, 75% is what they target.
So why does some one think they need a screamer bike thats light to ride a 500 mile race.
Maybe they should look at changing the way they ride a heavier bike.
Where a lighter bikes will beat a rider up over tough terrian as they bouce off every thing, so the rider has to hang on more.
BRP just drives though it all.
If and when they bring out a replacement for the BRP the first thing it has to do is be as realiable as the BRP otherwise i will have it for a long time yet.

  • XR_mad

Posted April 09, 2006 - 07:05 AM


its surprisingly nimble for a 650 when you have a bit of throttle

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  • BAJAHUSKYS

Posted April 09, 2006 - 07:38 AM


[quote name='huntmaster']Willow Springs for one! Otherwise, the one's with knobbies will still be regularly hitting 100+ mph (or even 125 mph in Johnny Campbell's case) if not averaging that,

This is what I was answering, averaging 100 or 125 mph in Johnny's case. Don't believe me? Ask Bruce or Johnny what there average speed was and how many times they got over 80 mph, let alone 100 or 125 in a Baja 1000 like last year? Bruce has a web site and post here now and again. You dont need to go 100+ mph to average 54 mph on a 700 or 1000 mile race.

For the record though, Husqvarna averaged over 54+ mph when they raced here in the 70's to 80's. Kawasaki averaged over 54+ mph when they raced and won here in the 80s- 90s. And now Honda is averaging over 54+ mph while they race here in the 90s to 00s. These XR 650's and CRF 450X bikes are not stock and yes they do break down from time to time.

The XR 650s dont run a thermostat to begin (failure prone) with or an overflow bottle (weight and not needed for high speed races) for radiator fluid. They run the Honda power up kit along with a modified cam, pipe and piston. All bolts, nuts and whatever can be changed to titanium has been changed (weight savings). They dont run a kick stand just to save weight. There right hand foot pegs have been modded so they wont break off during a race (JC has had that happen personally back in 2001 at a BITD race. It was corrected right after by drilling the frame). Suspension is done front and rear (normal for all race bikes). They run the plastic skid pan (weight savings too) to show Honda owners it is tough. Also because they can change engines at will if need be, the same thing can't be said for the privateer racing a XR 650 in a long desert event.

All these things were run at the SF 250 by the winning (and then DQd) XR 650, with a modified CRF450X coming in second and a fairly stock 06 Husky TE 510 coming in third. The Husky was a member of Baja Huskys Race Team and had only after market tires, tubes, chain, sprockets, front suspension worked on and the lights taken off it. Nothing else. None of the above mentioned items that made the Honda what it is in desert racing today. The best, most highly modified race bike out there. And it wins along with an excellent pit support team made up largely of Honda volunteers. Not knocking anything here at all on the big XR, just laying out the facts that are known by all.

I say, lets give Team Honda a stock XR 650 for ther Open Class pro ranks, mod the suspension, put a steel skid pan on her like everyone else runs, change the chain, tires, tubes, gearing, take off the lights and run her like that for a race season.

If Team Honda can still wi OA in the Open Pro Class on all three Score races, I'll keep quiet for life on this subject. Promise. Steny :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

  • XR_mad

Posted April 09, 2006 - 07:47 AM


[quote name='BAJAHUSKYS'][quote name='huntmaster']I say, lets give Team Honda a stock XR 650 for ther Open Class pro ranks, mod the suspension, put a steel skid pan on her like everyone else runs, change the chain, tires, tubes, gearing, take off the lights and run her like that for a race season.
[/QUOTE]
thats basically how the xr650r wins baja

  • Triumphs

Posted April 09, 2006 - 08:20 AM


You dont need to go 100+ mph to average 54 mph on a 700 or 1000 mile race.:

???????? How do you think the Trophy trucks manage to place as well as they do? It's not by being particularly fast in tight technical sections...but by hitting 140 mph in places! There's lots of fast open places they take advantage of and are usually able to beat the buggies for overall four wheel honors...despite being slower in pure technical off road conditions.

As for bikes...even the camera guys from D to G movie were hitting 115 mph!
No one has said this is unique to the Honda and yes, Roeseler & crew were doing the same in their day on the Kawi. You can't average 55 mph here by maxing out at only 80 mph, when there are numerous slow and technical sections that bring speed down dramatically.

  • BAJAHUSKYS

Posted April 09, 2006 - 07:06 PM


thats basically how the xr650r wins baja


LOL! :thumbsup:

  • huntmaster

Posted April 10, 2006 - 11:05 AM


How do you think the Trophy trucks manage to place as well as they do? It's not by being particularly fast in tight technical sections...but by hitting 140 mph in places!

What? They don't average 140 mph! :thumbsup:

  • XR_mad

Posted April 10, 2006 - 08:48 PM


What? They don't average 140 mph! :thumbsup:

what he was saying was to get a 100mph average they have to make up for the 30/40mph stuff by hammering it along the fast stuff :thumbsup:

  • Triumphs

Posted April 11, 2006 - 09:22 AM


what he was saying was to get a 100mph average they have to make up for the 30/40mph stuff by hammering it along the fast stuff

Well, more like a 50-55 mph average depending on the event but yes, you've got the idea! They do get cooking in some sections, two or four wheels...which with a few exceptions makes them more like "dirt roads" events rather then "off-road" as perceived by most dirt riders.





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