Bad talk about the XR650R

[JackAttack]

I think there are a lot of guys out there like me. We don't really want to ride a 300lb bike that has 5 year old technology(if not older). ?

There is just no other bike on the market right now that is better. ?

Maybe Irondude is secretly helping Honda develop the CRF600X. ?

We can only hope and pray. ?

[Rokatt88]

I think there are a lot of guys out there like me. We don't really want to ride a 300lb bike that has 5 year old technology(if not older). ?

There is just no other bike on the market right now that is better. ?

Maybe Irondude is secretly helping Honda develop the CRF600X. ?

We can only hope and pray. ?

IronDude is way too gnarley...He's out singlehandedly looking for Osama Bin-Friggin-Laden in a North African desert! Get him ID! ?

[XR/CRDave]

I have had the chance through the years to ride many different types of competitive mx and offroad bikes and I have always enjoyed something about each one. I have also learned that it depends on where you are riding as to what bike shines. Sure I have climbed on a couple of bikes like KTM 520's and blue and red 450's which feel fun playing around on but when it comes to haulin around the dez the big XR just feels the best to me. That is why I bought the 00 650 and at the same time I bought a 01 CR250 for play riding and mx'ing. Possibly if I did not go to Mexico and gave up mx'ing then maybe I would buy a KTM525, (the 450 exc felt too slow but I liked the 450sx)although my friends would have to stop working on theirs so much for me to feel comfortable. Or maybe I will wait for the CRF600 or is this some rumor that someone made up?

One other thing I noticed is that there is a small KTM dealer in No San Diego that the owner always races the Baja 1000 and this year he raced a XR650, what does that tell you. ?

[Dezrider]

and it's ugly too?

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202029&page=2&pp=10

[RingKingPin]

Thanks for the words B Dub! ? I was going to post the yet to be seen, hammer up the tail pipe shot for ya but am now afraid that I erased it ? Oh vell ! ?

[irondude]

**** You!

[irondude]

Just kidding...

SO the Frogs wont let me run an american flag on my bike. **** the French!

AND they told me my super cool desert camo camleback wont fly either.

SO i went out and got an arabic translation of Irondude for the back of my helmet in glittery silver. Right next to it is my bloodtype and the stars and stripes--but its not as cool as full screaming eagle. I was told the Team KTM guys had to remove the stars and stripes pics off their bikes last year at Dakar...

SPeaking of KTM....did you see those incredible KTM LC4 based single cyclinder with dual Akropovic exhausts at the 1000? 700cc!! 16-45 gearing. Its no wonder they went flying past Campbell like he was standing still. Did you know Johnny was 15 minutes behind at one point?

Heres a little something to chew on...Team Honda INCREASED their average speed by over 1 mph--on the same course as 2 years ago. WIth one change...everyone was SUPPOSED to ride 60 mph on the pavement. There was about 100 miles of pavement--thats 10% of the race.

So you math guys----if you are now limited to 60mph for 100 miles--unlike 2 years ago when everyone was doing 110 on the pavement....how do you increase your average speed by 1 mph?

Its impossible. Thats how.

Honda won? You still belive that? They are loosing by 15 minutes after getting passed twice, and then win by 20 minutes and do it in a RADICALLY faster theoretical 'average' speed. Yeah right.

Did you know the Childress XR's Only bike was hit by an oncoming Trophy Truck chase vehicle. If i ran SCORE i would penalize Pflueger Racing 30 minutes on their time, and $10,000 plus the damage to the rider and bike. Then donate the money to Malcom Smiths orphanage in V de Trinidad. Can you believe that shit. GOing Backwards on the course south of Puertocitos--where its blind turns and 100 mph straightaways...UNACCEPTABLE!!! If anyone did that at BITD they would be out for one year. If anyone did that at a World Rallye they run the risk of being out 5 years!!

But back to those incredible KTM's....the Akropovich exhaust cans are available in the Hard Parts Catalogue. The big plastic tank, number plates and all that have been around in the Austrian factory for years. I REALLY wish they where available in the catalogue. They are used for the Baja series in Europe. Did you know there was a whole series of races called 'Baja's' over there? Kind of cool. All marked courses in places like Sardinia, Portugal, Spain and Italy. Once we invade France and Canada we should do Baja races there also as well.

hey Mike Kay-- i heard you tryed racing the Baja 1000 on a girls/mountain meadow/pit bike...the Hondaberg CRF250X. I heard the valves tightened so bad after 300 miles the bike wouldnt run! What a joke. So much for Honda reliablity. No wonder you are going to join me in the Great KTM Exodus of '05. Sux to race unreliable bikes that breakdown...Hondabergs suck! You really think the 450X is going to be any different? Maybe by 2006/7 they will have the bugs worked out....but by then you are right....KTM will be at a whole 'nuther level. Honda...Hold On its just 'Nuther Day Away.

Lets see--a dual sportable, cheap, fast, dez ready, tried and true, cheap parts big bore dual sport i can race, throw my hottie on the back...theres only one. If you live in Califonria...theres only one--- KTM 625!

Anyway....just wanted to say hi to y'all. Come on over to KTMtalk.com some time. Its awesome!

" no more, no more"

-Aerosmith

?

[big t]

IMO the xr250, 400, and 650 all did exactly what Honda intended. The 250 and 400 are bullet proof trail bikes. Low maintenance and easy to ride in a variety of conditions. The 650 was built for the desert and I think it is great for the trail also. I love mine. I was looking at getting a 450 but was concerned about reliabilty and maintenance so I got the 650 and have not been disappointed at all. I have only owned xr's up until about a month ago when I bought the yz because I wanted a full on mx bike. I would have gotten the crf but went with the yz for the price. The yz will only see mx track and the 650 will do everything else. I have ridden the 650 and my 400 on mx tracks and always had a good time. Honestly I don't think I will be much faster on the yz. I really hate to see Honda dropping the xr250 and 400. I will hang on to my 400 for a spare do it all bike, to follow my son around when he starts riding and for old time sake. Everybody complains that the xr's are old technology and need to be updated but I think they are perfect for what Honda had in mind. I know I have never regretted buying any of mine.

[BWB63]

I knew you would come out and play ??

Irondude is a lot more fun then the other(s) ?? and there seems to be quite a few ?

I think the CRF250 thing says alot about the bikes to come! ? That gremlin says it all! It starts with a ? but, doesn't last long till you are

I am still not convinced that KTM 525 will last as a do-it-all-for-the-long-haul bike?

The tranny thing is worse then any of the issues that the XR650R has ?

I fallowed the Safari race and there was a large failure rate for the (eight failed) KTM's! ? But, only one XR650R dropped out and it wasn't listed as a failure ? You yell and screem KTM but, they have one of the highest failure rates

They do come with some of the coolest parts...but, what good is that if you are stranded ?

I might not be the best at starting a fight but, with a little tag team maybe we can get the mighty Irondude to give a little ? back to the mighty BRP! I can't believe your still yelling foul at the Honda team! (They were nowhere to be found just before the bay of L.A.) Come on where are the pictures? Where is the proof? (1000 miles isn't that much to watch, is it) They did it all on a stock bike you can buy, from your Honda dealer! Just ask them! Well maybe not the front forks...but, but, but....

Come on he's yelling cheaters again! I thought they stopped the cheating and this would end all the talk of cheating Poor Honda can't get a break KTM was only 20 minutes behind and at some points there were trucks right in that time slot did they cheat?

I missed the truck going backwards on the course! ? That is major I knew they got hit but, didn't pay attention to why.

100 miles at 60 mph would take 1 hour and forty minutes or 100 minutes.

100 mile at 110 mph is 54.5 minutes. that's 45 minutes longer! KTM was 20 minutes behind Honda ?

P.S.

That sux that they won't let you wear your colors! can others wear theres? Can the french even ride? Can they wear there flag....oh, the one that was given back to them buy the blood of others ? more then once!

[Dovii]

First let me say excellent comments Motorick.

Now let me ramble...

I used to have an 94 XR600 (that I bought brand new in 93) and loved it and, like a lot of people with six honeys, I used it for things it was never designed to do. For starters, I made it street legal...

(In AZ I needed... D.O.T. approved tires, rear view mirror, brake light, license plate bracket w/ white light on license plate, and a horn that could be heard from 50' away [i.e. industrial strength "squeeky horn"]. Once I got the bike to pass inspection I stripped EVERYTHING off except I used the guts from the brake light to convert the stock tail light into a brake light and I bolted the license plate right to the fender.)

So my new "dual sport" complete with knobbies became... commuter, desert racer, enduro, occasional mxer, ect...

One day, while performing it's mx role, I came into a heated battle with a cr250. While both going around a flat sweeper, I found I could dial in just the right amount of throttle to drift around the turn. The cr250 infront of me would loose his rear end each time he got on the pipe and would have to back off only to try and fail again. I carried so much more corner speed that I easily motored past him in the next straightaway. Despite my bike's weight disadvantage I was able to put time on the 2-strokes in the turns and the straightaways only to be forced to back off and roll over the big doubles. My sole attempt to clear a big double resulted in the suspension bottoming on the FACE of the jump so hard that the front tire almost washed out! Clearly out of it's element. Well, the moral is that after that day I thought, "If I could only have this motor in a modern 2-stroke frame I could own these guys." The CRF450R has gone beyond anything I could have wished for - I only wish Honda would have thought of it before Yamaha (Kudo's to them).

The crf450 isn't the replacement for the xr600, of course, the xr650 is. When the xr650 came out there were two things I liked about it... liquid cooling and more power. I was extremely disappointed with the fact that, despite the highly advertised aluminum frame, it weighed MORE than the xr600! Backwards progress. A word to manufacturers... always make bikes - a. lighter b. stronger. Weight was the xr600's biggest weakness and they made it worse. It's second biggest weakness was it's suspension and I'm sorry, but the 650's is hardly cutting edge. Honda did a great job with the 650's motor, but honestly the motor wasn't exactly a weak point of the 600. They gave it liquid cooling which was welcome and they also updated the chassis (which was badly needed). The XR650R is what it is and what it isn't is in my garage.

Finally, Honda recently blundered again...

The CRF450X. First of all, god bless the 450R (it's heaven on earth), but... it's a race bike and it's valve train requires more "upkeep" than what is considered acceptable for an enduro. It doesn't sound like Honda addressed this on the 450x. They should have gone with steal valves. Second, the 450r is held to 450cc by AMA rules. Why not stroke the motor to 500cc for the 450X? The 450R motor (with it's over-square cylinder) responds extremely well to stroking. It wouldn't add substantial weight. It would add bottom end grunt that the 450R is missing and no one would miss the higher redline. This combined with a little detuning would result in greater, yet more useful, power and greater reliability. It may have even been a worthy replacement for the XR650R.

Just some thoughts from another Honda fan.

P.S. Don't get me started on the new CBR-RR's (repeat after me Honda... a. lighter b. faster).

[homer371]

I've been waiting for an upgrade of the XR650 for awhile now. An uncorked XR is a gem of a motor, but the frame is badly in need of an overhaul. I don't know why Honda went to the trouble to make a brand new frame for this bike and left the geometry and riding position the same as the XR600. For someone who is over 6 feet, the bars seem like they are in your lap and the pegs are too far forward. If Honda would put this exact same engine in a frame built to accomodate a taller, stand up rider, I would buy two of them. The CRF450X is nice, but I prefer the XR motor for it's longevity. I wonder if BBR would build a custom frame?

[RingKingPin]

get an aftermarket clamp and some risers. Im 6'5" and it took me a while to find the perfect setup but it's nice now.

[BIGGITY]

Just kidding...

SO the Frogs wont let me run an american flag on my bike. **** the French!

AND they told me my super cool desert camo camleback wont fly either.

SO i went out and got an arabic translation of Irondude for the back of my helmet in glittery silver. Right next to it is my bloodtype and the stars and stripes--but its not as cool as full screaming eagle. I was told the Team KTM guys had to remove the stars and stripes pics off their bikes last year at Dakar...

SPeaking of KTM....did you see those incredible KTM LC4 based single cyclinder with dual Akropovic exhausts at the 1000? 700cc!! 16-45 gearing. Its no wonder they went flying past Campbell like he was standing still. Did you know Johnny was 15 minutes behind at one point?

Heres a little something to chew on...Team Honda INCREASED their average speed by over 1 mph--on the same course as 2 years ago. WIth one change...everyone was SUPPOSED to ride 60 mph on the pavement. There was about 100 miles of pavement--thats 10% of the race.

So you math guys----if you are now limited to 60mph for 100 miles--unlike 2 years ago when everyone was doing 110 on the pavement....how do you increase your average speed by 1 mph?

Its impossible. Thats how.

Honda won? You still belive that? They are loosing by 15 minutes after getting passed twice, and then win by 20 minutes and do it in a RADICALLY faster theoretical 'average' speed. Yeah right.

Did you know the Childress XR's Only bike was hit by an oncoming Trophy Truck chase vehicle. If i ran SCORE i would penalize Pflueger Racing 30 minutes on their time, and $10,000 plus the damage to the rider and bike. Then donate the money to Malcom Smiths orphanage in V de Trinidad. Can you believe that shit. GOing Backwards on the course south of Puertocitos--where its blind turns and 100 mph straightaways...UNACCEPTABLE!!! If anyone did that at BITD they would be out for one year. If anyone did that at a World Rallye they run the risk of being out 5 years!!

But back to those incredible KTM's....the Akropovich exhaust cans are available in the Hard Parts Catalogue. The big plastic tank, number plates and all that have been around in the Austrian factory for years. I REALLY wish they where available in the catalogue. They are used for the Baja series in Europe. Did you know there was a whole series of races called 'Baja's' over there? Kind of cool. All marked courses in places like Sardinia, Portugal, Spain and Italy. Once we invade France and Canada we should do Baja races there also as well.

hey Mike Kay-- i heard you tryed racing the Baja 1000 on a girls/mountain meadow/pit bike...the Hondaberg CRF250X. I heard the valves tightened so bad after 300 miles the bike wouldnt run! What a joke. So much for Honda reliablity. No wonder you are going to join me in the Great KTM Exodus of '05. Sux to race unreliable bikes that breakdown...Hondabergs suck! You really think the 450X is going to be any different? Maybe by 2006/7 they will have the bugs worked out....but by then you are right....KTM will be at a whole 'nuther level. Honda...Hold On its just 'Nuther Day Away.

Lets see--a dual sportable, cheap, fast, dez ready, tried and true, cheap parts big bore dual sport i can race, throw my hottie on the back...theres only one. If you live in Califonria...theres only one--- KTM 625!

Anyway....just wanted to say hi to y'all. Come on over to KTMtalk.com some time. Its awesome!

" no more, no more"

-Aerosmith

?

In regards to this... Were any of you at the Baja 1000 and did you hear that twin exhaust KTM go by? It sounded like absolute azz. popping, clanging, rattling and this was only about 5 miles south of puertcitos. 1/4 of the way through the race! I'm amazed it lasted the whole race. It sounded like it was about to die when it was only 200+ miles into the race. Maybe this is why they kept losing their lead because they were having to do major work in the pits to keep it running?? ? Just a thought.

[irondude]

Yeah that LC4 is soooo unreliable. Its only won a gazzillion world rallies. EVERY XR650R entered in last years Dakar Rallye broke down -- either the stators (that are not aspirated) went out, or the lower corner of the airbox leaked, leading to catastrophic failure of the engine! And who won the Dakar Rallye last year....in fact almost EVERY bike in the top 20...the LC4 based KTM...same engine in the 625, same engine in the KTM baja bikes...

It beat the Honda and won the Vegas to Reno--only time it was entered--5 years ago!!

It only got second in the Baja 1000---and for much of the race is was leading the 'home turf' XR650R. Yeah they might have spent some time in the pits...the bike had only been in Baja ONE WEEK. NO PRE RUNNING on the bike at all! Honda has been winning at Baja by default. They have been the only factory raicing! But next year all bikew will have GPS tracking. That means no more cheating, no more speeding, no more games. KTM will COMPLETELY dominate BAJA. Its going to be an invasion.

Anyway--all that success aint to bad for a bike that is available street legal in California!

LC4 KTM....its the single big one-lunger that Honda should have built...instead they have a XL650 and a XR650...? Weird. The XR650R will be discontinued next year....and sadly in its place the unreliable, way to MX oriented, CRF600X Hondaburg will emerge.

Horrible.

I only wish Honda would build the big bike we all want.

Street Legal in Cali and the rest of the world

55 horsepower

102 X 82 with medium skirt and 3 rings.

E start

Pumper carb or better yet, fuel injection.

10.25:1

Stage one grind cam

4.0 gallon tank

4 SS valves.

20 lb frame w/ Ti sub frame

KTM style air box. One ya can actually reach into...(unlike the CRF250X!)

200 watt stator

Excell rims w/8 guage spokes.

USD forks, CR500 rear shock.

Integrated steering dampner (innovation!)

15/45

280mm front rotor

Optional lowering link

17" 'tard wheels

Pizza delivery rack

Sale price

$6250

They should have built the above with both a 450 and a 680 cylinder. One bike -- two platforms...just like KTM. THAT is the smart way to do it. Reliable, fast, light, versatile.

Instead we are going to get more Hondaburgs (like the CRF250X and the MX with lights CRF450X) that are designed WAY too unreliable. Off road bikes with .7 quart of oil? Ti valves that go out in one season or less? Small fuel tanks, stators that cant be properly re-wound, airboxes that ya cant reach into: What idiots at Honda come up with this stuff....HONDABERG's suck!

BRING BACK THE XR's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(just update them a bit!)

"no more, no more"

-Aerosmith

[PowerCell]

Hey Irondude -

As a representative of the Husaberg community, we take offense at your "Hondaberg" slant. Maybe we didn't win any classes, but of the three 'bergs that ran the Baja Mil this year, two finished ? ! And that's a better finishing percentage than even KTM (and maybe even Honda). All with extremely limited support.

So, please don't taint our name with the "Honda" association! ?

~ Ken

[wardo]

Here is a quote from Mr. Scott Harden himself on the KTM teams performance:

"Since some of you asked. We burned up both a front and rear mousse just north of Puertocitos. Rode 80 miles with the tires zip tyied to the rims with giant zypties. Dropped about 25 minutes as a result. Worked our way back up during the middle third of the race to get within 11-12 minutes on corrected time, but they pulled back out at the end. Those guys are really good. But so was our KTM team. The 710 we rode was the most amazing Baja m/c I have ever ridden. 84 horses of pure linear horspeower with freakin arm popping acceleration from 60 to 105 mph. What a great wagon!

Can't wait till next year. More important it was a great team effort leading into Dakar. Thanks to everyone that has called or emailed."

Someone should put a muzzle on that Irondude....

Wardo

__________________

[drex]

Hey Irondude -

As a representative of the Husaberg community, we take offense at your "Hondaberg" slant. Maybe we didn't win any classes, but of the three 'bergs that ran the Baja Mil this year, two finished ? ! And that's a better finishing percentage than even KTM (and maybe even Honda). All with extremely limited support.

So, please don't taint our name with the "Honda" association! ?

~ Ken

? Now that's funny! ?

[BWB63]

What a slam on every one! ?? Great berg come back! 66% made it! Sorry honda did way better then that! This is getting good ? I have riden a Berg and man they are fast and light but, even the owner said, "We got lucky that day". Most Berg owners know the sort comings of the bike but, like the top, very top performance it gives while it is ruuning ?

[jwriott]

This is an interesting thread. I'm the guy who posted the "Pigs Really Can Fly" video in this forum. I'm 5'7" 165 lbs. and my buddy is 5'7" 150 lbs. on the BRP. Both of us are way out of the target buyer Honda had in mind for this bike but we both can absolutely haul ass on the thing. Since it's not mine, I tend to ride it too aggressively and get tired fast but with a little practice, I know I could probably go all day like my buddy. It's a super reliable bike and considering the pace my buddy rides, his has been great. The only bad thing that's happened is a cracked rear wheel.

That said, I'm hoping that a lot of people want the 450X and try to dump their 650R so I can buy one cheap.

As far as the KTM 525 EXC/MXC, they rock but are just too damned expensive. They are so much lighter than the XR it's not even funny. However, I want the XR as a second bike that I don't have to work on. When I'm ready to ride it, the thing will be ready to go. When I'm done, put it back till the next time with the peace of mind that it's ready to go again. ?

[PowerCell]

And let's not forget that of the Husaberg finishers, (294x) Don Robbins of Phoenix Arizona Ironmanned the whole race on a 5 year old bike! ???

How about "HondaDale"??? or "BullHonda" instead??? ???

~ Ken