Sub Tank review


48 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted November 02, 2004 - 10:19 AM

#21

First, you're welcome, John, and hats off to you for sharing your find on these parts! :cry:

after several hard rides i took it of and there was no oil in it..its fairly impossible for it to accumulate because the path is vertical and any oil forced in just drains out!



That was the intent of the Too Tech setup, so apparently they succeeded. Anyone see any oil collecting in the tanks on a 2 tank setup like John built? Supposedly, they require an occasional drain. NC, when you checked, were the tank and lines oily at all? What oil height are you using?

Something that occurs to me is that if a significant amount of oil were forced up the line, and happened to be traversing the needle valve at the time of a major compression, the rider would get a spike from that side of the fork due to the much higher resistance oil would have to flowing through the metered orfice.

  • JohnB

Posted November 02, 2004 - 11:14 AM

#22

I've heard in the past that oil will collect in the two sub tank set up. This was expected with me. How much, I didn't know. After riding last Saturday I had a very small drop of oil come out of the schrader valve. I opened the flow control valve all the way and turned the tanks upside down. I have no idea if it drained back in. If there was more oil, maybe so. I'm not concerned about a few drops.
I think, the more oil you add... the more oil will be forced into the tanks.


JohnB

  • berudd

Posted November 02, 2004 - 11:22 AM

#23

Can you tell us why you settled on that particular flow control valve? Were you concerned with the ID of the valve, it's preassure rating or any other specs?

Also, I assume that this is attached to the fork via the bleed valve. What fitting to you use here?

  • JohnB

Posted November 02, 2004 - 12:27 PM

#24

Late 2003/early 2004 this topic was covered. At that time different flow control valves were being thrown around. I ordered the Bimba model first before seeing the second one from Polyconn. From the looks of the Polyconn model, I think I'll like it better. You can select the direction of flow control and the adjuster is recessed. Therefore, I'll be able to omit 2-3 fittings and it should be more compact. The overall size is smaller than the Bimba.

For those thinking of a single tank, Too Tech's web site shows it's dimension for a single tank set up (7 1/2").

When ordering the tanks from Bimba, you have to allow for the end caps. They reference this dimension in their catalog.

Without knocking any other manufactures.... I saw two different riders with the same set up and both had check valves leaking. Maybe they were older models, I don't know. The valves they had looked like a valve I had bought from the hardware store during my first proto build. The Bimba and Polyconn valves are both rated at 150psi max.

Maybe it's not rocket science, we just make it out to be.



JohnB

  • berudd

Posted November 02, 2004 - 12:52 PM

#25

I checked out the stuff on Bimba and it seems that the tank is more than just an empty tank. I don't know much about this stuff but it seemed that there was a piston or something internal to the tank. At least that is what I assumed when they mentioned stroke. Is the tank more than just an empty cylinder? I assume the value for more than just equalizing the preassure in the tanks to atomspheric like we do with the bleed screw now?

You mentioned that you can select the direction of flow through the valves. Does the mean that you only want the air to flow one way (into?) the tank? I would have thought they you would want it to go in and out as the suspension moves.

  • KTM-Lew

Posted November 02, 2004 - 01:00 PM

#26

Here you go, this should answer any questions you have.

http://www.thumperta...art=&PHPSESSID=

:cry:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 02, 2004 - 02:18 PM

#27

The reference to "stroke" is likely to be a carry-over from the rest of their catalog. Their air CYLINDERS are made from many of the same subcomponents, and would have a piston and pressure rod. The air RESERVOIRS don't.


You do want air to flow both directions. Otherwise, it would pump the tank full and start sucking air past the seals. The reference to choosing the direction is concerning a choice of which direction you want air to be metered, and which should flow freely.

Metering the air into the tanks should allow something like a second layer of compression ajustability. Letting the air return to the fork unmetered is probably wise, since restricting it would create a partial vacuum, and might cause air to enter the fork at the seals. Too much of that, and the forks would be full of pressure, which is bad.

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 02, 2004 - 05:43 PM

#28

OK, say I get the bigger tank(1/2 inch bore with a 5 inch length), how do I know what flow control valve to buy?

Sorry if its a dumb question. :cry:

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 02, 2004 - 06:06 PM

#29

First, you're welcome, John, and hats off to you for sharing your find on these parts! :cry:

after several hard rides i took it of and there was no oil in it..its fairly impossible for it to accumulate because the path is vertical and any oil forced in just drains out!



That was the intent of the Too Tech setup, so apparently they succeeded. Anyone see any oil collecting in the tanks on a 2 tank setup like John built? Supposedly, they require an occasional drain. NC, when you checked, were the tank and lines oily at all? What oil height are you using?

Something that occurs to me is that if a significant amount of oil were forced up the line, and happened to be traversing the needle valve at the time of a major compression, the rider would get a spike from that side of the fork due to the much higher resistance oil would have to flowing through the metered orfice.

i run mobil 1 syn trannie fluid(7 1/2 w) @ 4" from top. how i checked was there is a pressure release valve(just a valve stem) that i blew compressed air through while it was off the bike and there was a little residue maybe,nothing significant. try to figure out what valves the tootech runs (i've got no idea) they seem to work quite well! :cry:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 02, 2004 - 07:15 PM

#30

OK, say I get the bigger tank(1/2 inch bore with a 5 inch length), how do I know what flow control valve to buy?



The tank I mentioned in my reply to you would be the 1.5 inch, not a half inch in I.D. Maybe that was a typo.

Anyway, I don't think that the valve depends much on the tank volume. But after reading through some of the stuff on the older thread, it looks like you should get one that meters air into the tank, but lets it return freely. Something like John used should be fine, either the Bimba or Polyconn.

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  • JohnB

Posted November 02, 2004 - 08:42 PM

#31

Just a reminder... If you order the Bimba air res., you need to allow for the end caps as part of the overall dimension. The 1 1/2" tank requires you add 2.25" and the 1 1/4" requires 1.38" to be added. The 4"x 1.25" is 6.26 CI each.

I don't know if a flow control valve is really required. The air is controlled going into the tanks and free flow out. Some of the ones I've seen look like check valves. It lets air in/out and you control that with the needle screw.

It's like Ford/Chevy or Yamaha/Honda.
Which way is correct??
It's trial and error for me. By the time I get done, I probably could have bought some from one of the many suppliers. But then, what fun would that be. :cry:

Bottom line for me.... I've tried it and it worked for me. I can't wait to ride this weekend.


JohnB

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 03, 2004 - 04:56 PM

#32

Would running the 2 lines coming from the forks into a Y fitting and then into the air tank work?
To me that would be smarter becase you dont have to worry about the flow control valves on ech fork being on the same setting. :cry:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 03, 2004 - 09:03 PM

#33

Sounds feasible. Obviously, you will need to open the valve further to get the same flow, but it should work unless the valve won't pass enough air when all the way open.

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 03, 2004 - 09:07 PM

#34

:cry: :cry: :cry:
I saw a picture with that same set up in the link to the other forum but i wasnt sure if it worked.

  • GetSumBaby

Posted November 03, 2004 - 11:03 PM

#35

I don't know if a flow control valve is really required. The air is controlled going into the tanks and free flow out. Some of the ones I've seen look like check valves. It lets air in/out and you control that with the needle screw.


I have the Too Tech and its great. I could not imagine having a bigger tank thatn I do now. I would have to run a VERY high oil level. The valve restricts air in and free out. That way it does not mess with the rebound. I run my oil level 3 3/8 from the top. Any oil that gets into the tank eventually equals itself out. I have taken my tank off to verify that no oil is in it - and there never is. But if the air was metered out the oil would be a prob. Like I said before, with the size tank I have - 1/8 of a turn makes a very noticable difference in the bike. If you have the time and you are into it go ahead and build it. Me, i just bought it and put it on. It comes with high quality fittings and braided lines. And the problems have already been worked out of it.

Ed

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 04, 2004 - 04:31 PM

#36

What are the the measurments of the Too Tech air tank

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 04, 2004 - 04:50 PM

#37

7" (counting the endcaps) of 1" aluminum pipe :cry: i'm with "get sum" its a quality peice that works well :cry:

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 04, 2004 - 07:14 PM

#38

Hmmmmm...7 inchs seems like alot especially when i have over size bars.this may seem like a dumb question but would it be better to just build the thing or should I just fork out the 200$ for the Too Tech tank and slap it on??

  • GetSumBaby

Posted November 04, 2004 - 07:34 PM

#39

You mentioned that you can select the direction of flow through the valves. Does the mean that you only want the air to flow one way (into?) the tank? I would have thought they you would want it to go in and out as the suspension moves.


From the Too Tech website:
"The air bottle principal depends upon restricting the airflow into the bottle. All current bottles use an adjustable orifice that limits airflow in both directions. This means that the air that flows into the bottle slowly, also leaves the bottle slowly. Because the air returns to the forks slowly, current bottles tend to cause slow rebound and make the forks pack and feel dead.

The Too Tech Air Tank uses a pneumatic device called a ‘flow control valve’. A flow control valve has an adjustable orifice to control the air going into the tank, and a check valve to allow free flow of the air back out of the tank. This guarantees that the forks rebound at the same speed regardless of how much air has transferred into the Air Tank. This insures they do not pack or feel dead."

Too Tech

Ed

  • NAFLASH

Posted November 04, 2004 - 07:55 PM

#40

Could I use a smaller tank like a 5 inch?Or would that not be enough for the air to escape into and blow a seal some where





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