Blowing Blue



11 replies to this topic
  • Dave61

Posted August 05, 2002 - 07:04 PM

#1

Went out for a ride with a buddy today. When we stopped he pointed out the blue smoke. After several runs I was able to pin point when I look like a 2 stroke. Just revving the engine gives me a touch of black (rich?). On throttle over run (closing the throttle and letting compression slow me down) pulled a huge amount of blue smoke out. I mean a lot, like an old aircooled 2 stroke. I am quite disappointed since this is my 8th bike over 20 years of riding and my first Honda. I have had machines from the the 3 other Japanese manufacturers and a BMW as well and definetly eexpected more from Honda since they have a name second to none.

The bike is now 1 year old and has always been street bike (ask me how I feel about Baja Designs!) but never run over 130 km/h and then only in short bursts. Oil and filter has been changed monthly. I am only a trail rider not a racer but do like to lift the front wheel any where , anytime. I figure new rings but anyone else have an opinion? How about tips on ring suppliers?

  • Dave61

Posted August 05, 2002 - 07:28 PM

#2

Sorry I forgot to mention what I'm riding. 2001 XR650R, power up kit in carb, opened up airbox and spark arrestor removed.

  • Portland_650R

Posted August 06, 2002 - 08:37 AM

#3

Check your oil level. The breather tube from the crankcase goes to the airbox. If the oil level is too full, I bet you're sucking oil in. You could check this by pulling off the hose on top of the crankcase. When the throttle's closed, you're pulling really high vacuum - sucking in the oil.

Just a guess. The bike seems too new to have worn the rings out, unless it got exposed to lots of dirt somewhere along the line...

  • Moredesert

Posted August 06, 2002 - 11:44 AM

#4

If anything I would say valve guides. In cars they always say blue smoke is oil leaking down the valve guides. My thought is if it's rings then the oil is burned and comes out black.

Maybe one of the valve seals poped off the stem and is leaking oil?

  • Portland_650R

Posted August 07, 2002 - 06:45 AM

#5

Burning oil is always blue. Rich mixture (unburned gas) is black. Coolant in the exhaust is white - a bit is normal, at startup/first few minutes.

Worn valve guides/bad seal causes blue smoke at startup - When the warm bike is shut off, oil seeps past the seal, down the guide, into the combustion chamber (or pools on the valve) - then gets burned at startup.

Worn rings allow oil to get sucked into the combustion chamber and burned. This happens most when the throttle is released, the throttle plate closes, and high engine vacuum is created.

High oil level might do this too. A one-year-old bike should not have worn rings.

  • qadsan

Posted August 07, 2002 - 08:00 AM

#6

Nicely said Portland! You've indeed got more than a good bit of experiencing working with internal combustion engines by the sounds of it :)

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  • 85361

Posted August 08, 2002 - 08:10 PM

#7

I thought I had worn rings on an old XL. When I got into the motor, I was shocked to find out they weren't worn. They were broken. Into many small pieces. They had stayed in the grooves, and the bike had run good except for a lot of blue smoke. I didn't know whether to curse or admire those Honda engineers.

  • Dave61

Posted August 09, 2002 - 04:32 PM

#8

I was aware of the difference between the causes of black and blue smoke but it is still a good idea to mention.

As for a bit of white smoke at startup....the bit that would be normal would only be condensation caused at low temperatures, certainly not coolant; that's bad news and not normal by a long shot.

Going by the idea that it is too early to toast my rings the head is getting torn down this weekend.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

  • 85361

Posted August 09, 2002 - 06:46 PM

#9

Okay. What about Baja designs?

  • Dave61

Posted August 10, 2002 - 01:45 PM

#10

I forgot to mention but I did run the bike with the oil filter installed backwards for a few hours. Turns out the head and valve guides are in good shape after all. Same with the cam and bearings.

:)

I have some scuffing on the thrust (exhaust) side of the cylinder. I am sending the jug and piston off to a professional to get it honed and new rings and piston installed. Hopefully all the parrts will be home soon and I can go riding again before Fall!

  • Dave61

Posted August 10, 2002 - 05:56 PM

#11

I forgot to mention but I did run the bike with the oil filter installed backwards for a few hours. Turns out the head and valve guides are in good shape after all. Same with the cam and bearings.

:)

I have some scuffing on the thrust (exhaust) side of the cylinder. I am sending the jug and piston off to a professional to get it honed and new rings and piston installed. Hopefully all the parrts will be home soon and I can go riding again before Fall!

  • Dave61

Posted August 10, 2002 - 06:22 PM

#12

To answer that 85361;

Their kit went on August of'01. Within 3 months the brake light switch failed, the handlebar pod and each control on it ahs failed repeatedly, the battery pack self destructed, the horn failed, and all lighting except the headlight unit has to be disassembled weekly to clean out dirt and mud.

After each problem I contacted the company and received no response. Eventually their customer service department (after several e-mails and 4 long distance calls) told me that failures should be expected on a dirt bike due to the enviorment in which it is used. If I had a problem I should take send them the parts and they will consider it. I explained that it would take at least 6 weeks to send parts there and back due to the customs clearance. I really did not want to take my bike off the road that long. I offered to rent or lease or just about anything in order to avoid that. Their reply was amounted to like it or leave it.

With customer service like that I think I'll look at the competition next time.





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