Ok the 450 is coming back to me again. This thing is like an obnoxious relative that comes to stay a weekend and never leaves.
First time I it sold the guy thought a carb went with it and to make a long story short I gave him his $$ back.
I just recently sold it again and sent it more than half way across the country. Long story/short: I didn'd fog the engine with oil after the last time I sold it and it sat in my utility room for about 6 months in the humid South.
Yup you guessed it, condensation set in and rusted some parts of the top end( light rust on the cam chain ) and the cam lobe ends were rusted and what oil was left in the lower end absorbed the moisture and looked milky.
Well the engine is coming back home to me again.
I think I may just build one hell of a go cart and abuse the neighbors
But for now I'm gonna go out and something!

10 guy refused it? PM me a price then.

To tell you the truth I don't remember his username.

Crap, I woulda taken that beast from you months ago if I had the
money...

PM me how much you want for it. Or post it here if you prefer. any pics of the rust?

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Well Bill, since you decided to make this public. I think we need to clarify some things. In an e-mail on sept. 2 you wrote

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I received the crate on tuesday and it looked undamaged. I cut the zip ties and looked in the bags and saw the bare mag cover and thought "that's a good sign". Since you had warned me about unpacking and bronco had lots of experience with foam encased packages, I put the top back on and waited until I could go over to bronco's to get started. We unpacked it and had to break some of the foam away (it is a great way to safely ship stuff). We then did a look around the outside of the engine and noticed a badly worn css and also where the engine had lost a chain sometime in the past and chewed up the case a little bit. No big deal, nothing important damaged. Took the engines to weigh them. Went right back to bronco's to start preping the engine for installation. Pulled the drain plug and noticed grey immulsified oil/water, not much just on the threads. Of course the engine was on its side (we were working on a bench) so nothing came out. Then we turned the engine over so we could see the oil filter and clutch (I was going to install my rekluse auto-clutch). Oddly enough the oil in the filter housing was fresh and clean. Very, very, very, very clean. As in never having been through an engine type clean. But the filter was dark and soggy.

Then we opened up the clutch cover and what did we see? Look below for the pics.





At that time we decided to take the entire side cover off and investigate. Does this look like condensation mixed with a little oil? What does it take to completely mix water and oil



Just noticed that you can see the fresh clean oil where the oil filter housing resides








Notice the clear water bubble, we were worried about not being able to get a picture of it.

This is some of the bacteria/fungus type growth, also seen in the first pic.


This is the "light rust on the cam chain and cam lobes"



Here is another shot of the "factory race clutch", guess what? Stock basket, discs, and springs. It is not even a yosh clutch kit, where's the billet basket? You mean to say that the factory race team doesn't use those???
http://img.photobuck...h%20450/y18.jpg
Notice the brown pads, guess where they came from
http://img.photobuck...h%20450/y17.jpg

Here we are tilting the engine up to see how much water is in it. Notice the "water line" on the gears in this pic.

http://img.photobuck...h%20450/y15.jpg

And as for the "little bit of condensation" that I am so worried about, here is a little example of what we found. Don't worry Bill, there is a lot of it left in there for you to check out.
http://img.photobuck...h%20450/y19.jpg
This is at least 3oz of water and a little oil on top that we poured out the open side of the engine. Exactly how humid is it in tennessee Bill?

I had bronco with me the entire time as a witness to all of this. If I have said anything in error I'm sure he will speak up.

So yes I am returning it so I can hopefully get my money back and try to get my bike built. Now that I'm over a month behind. I paid Bill with a Cashier's check, it took him a week to box and ship the engine after he received my check. Now I have to return an engine that was misrepresented to me. Then he says when he gets it he will overnight a check to me. Great, with the weekend coming up it will be another week and a half at least before I will have my money back so I can start to work on my bike again. I even offered to have bronco come with me to send it to vouch that it was sent, nope not good enough. He has my home address, phone number, cell phone number what more do you want Bill? Who is the one here who has acted in good faith? I sent you money that could not be stopped and then after you cash it you wait a week and send me a factory fish tank. Now you are holding my money until you get your junk back?

You wanted to air this in public, now lets see what they have to say about it.

Anyone want to buy a "yosh prepared factory race engine"? Feel free because I don't consider the engine delivered to me to be in excellent running condition. How far does one get with all their friction pad material on the pressure plate?

Out in tha rain?

The clutch basket thing is a good point too 10guy.

Oh ya and nice touch with the water in the little jug.

There is more still in the engine. It was broncos idea to capture some and see if any or how much water would come out. And it is water, not coolent. It is clear and supports life. The more clear water has come white stringy things growing in it.

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Hrmmmmmm like a little eco-system in there.

Wow. I don't know what to say...


Bill, keep track of your items for sale a bit better, will ya? I'm still wondering if you drowned the motor and decided to sell. Regardless, I don't think you'll be redeemed until there's and explanation. That's not just a 'bit of condensation' from sitting in the garage. The 'water line' from the gears is too obvious to think otherwise.

And to think I was contemplating purchase of his motor. Not to be an ass 10guy, but I'm glad you discovered this instead of me.

Best of luck with your rebuild and other adventures... I'm not sure what else to say.

Bummer all around, flooded engine for sure. That cam chain rust cant be good, I wouldnt
want to test it @ speed. Damn bacteria can live in the strangest places...

Sorry for the both of you, I do like the idea of a DRZ 450 go cart though Bill...!!!

Yeah, the 450 go-kart would be a blast. I just started reading about "the 450" as 10guy was anticipating his new engine. Bummer of a deal dude. I think with all the pictures and your witness that it is being shipped you should get your money back ASAP.

Dr. Billz

Whats that fish thing in your sig??????????????????

The manual decomp is still good maybe...?

What does the cylinder look like?

Man...I feel really bad for you. My condolances are extended.

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No idea,, did not want to take it that far, as I was pretty sure it was going back.

At this point,,,after talking with bill, after taking the motor down as far as I did...

1: the pics don’t lie, and 10guys description was on the generous side.
2: I think this is not a thing of malice at this point. The motor had lots of water in it, it was run with lots of water in it. Someone drained milky, emulsified water from the frame and motor at some point. Someone put fresh oil in the frame and a new filter.. but it seems that it was not run at that point, as the fresh oil was only in the filter when we got it. Bill says he has no real idea what happened,,, ok as I have no reason to disbelieve him ok then,, and it really does not matter,, as long as a full refund as promised happens. In truth the motor may be salvable,, if someone wants to put a lot of time and some parts in it.... or it may be nothing but cases at this point. No way to tell until a full tear down.

3: In no way was this caused by condensation
4: In no way could fogging the cylinder with oil prevented this,, as explained and supported above.
5: This sucks for all.. Bill thought he had a good motor to sell, 10Guy thought he had a good motor for his bike, bill thought up until a few hours ago,, he could once again get his motor back and try selling it again (though I'm sure once it was back,, he would have seen for himself why the would not have been possible)
All in all a bad deal for all.

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I should probably keep my mouth shut but as I read this is sounds as if that engine has changed hands several times and been shipped around a lot.
I think the Doc is a man of good character and there might be more to the story that he doesn't even know.
I do not dispute the thread in any way. I am just trying to hold back an angry crowd until all the facts are out and even then we might not know.
Very sad situation for all parties concerned.

It would be fun for someone to douch that thing out with solvent and redo the clutch just to see if and how long it will run. In truth a small amount of surface rust isn't going to kill it if you change the oil and filter after every ride for a while. I know you are going to say that all the junk will grind it up but it would be fun to put it to the test on a project go-kart or something.

I remember a story about Honda building this dirt bike for the Baja 1000 and they put somekind of compound in the engine to make sure it got clearanced properly. It then finished the race in a very high place.
Don't ya ever wonder about all that clutch material floating around in the oil????
This thing might still live a long time even if the cylinder and cams are pitted.

1)I've been on this site for YEARS.
2)I've never done anyone wrong.
3)The engine was never drowned out in water, creek, river nor any body of water.
4) I have NO IDEA where this water came from.
5)The engine was in PERFECT running condition when the engine was removed.
6)It's possible the last guy dumped the water in the engine when he was displeased the carb didn't come with it.
7)I apologized to you PROFUSELY and am paying to have the engine shipped back and am returning ALL YOUR MONEY TO YOU.
HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE ANYTHING ON MY PART by saying "now that you nade this public"
8)I DON'T BLAME DARREN FOR SENDING IT BACK......HE SHOULD HAVE!
9)THERE IS MORE WATER IN IT THAN JUST CONDENSATION WOULD DO. ??????????? It's still a mystery to me!

This original post was meant to be nothng but humorous and convey a feeling of being "snake bit".

This should be put to bed, engine arrived in condition contrary to what was expected/advertised, seller is refunding the money. This is no more/less than what happens on e-bay or buying things in a store. All parties involved seem to be honorable about things so where's the issue. When you buy things from a store sometimes refunds take a little time to get back,,,no biggie. Life goes on