Counter shaft seal



20 replies to this topic
  • Spacehog

Posted February 19, 2002 - 11:16 AM

#1

I have read a lot about the seal blowing on the counter shaft.
Just how many people have experienced this and is the new seal a proper fix?
I will soon be buying a Brp so I want to know.

  • needsprayer

Posted February 19, 2002 - 12:06 PM

#2

Spacehog,

If you are really interested in putting this question to a large group of XR650R users go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XR650R. This is an unbiased group moderated by Fred Hink.

  • katoooooom

Posted February 19, 2002 - 09:54 PM

#3

"SPACEHOG"
IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN THE NUMBERS=GIVE HONDA A CALL AND ASK THEM TO LOOK IN THEIR DATABASE AND MANY SEALS THEY HAVE SOLD !
1-HONDA WON'T TELL YOU.
2-HONDA WILL LIE TO YOU AND TELL YOU THEY HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANY SEALS.
3-HONDA WILL DO ANYTHING TO LET YOU BELIEVE THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS.
4-THEY WILL TELL YOU IT WAS ONLY ON THE FIRST FEW BIKES.
5-LOOK IN THE HONDA NEWSLETTER AT THE BAJA WRITE-UP FOR JOHNNY CAMBELL-THEY SHOW A TOOLBAG WITH TITANIUM TIRE IRONS AND SO FORTH,JUST THE BEAR MINIMUM-ALONG WITH....GUESS WHAT-A COUNTERSHAFT SEAL........
THERE ARE A LOT OF OWNERS THAT DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO PLAY ON THE "NET" OR EVEN HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET OR KNOW ABOUT SOME YAHOO SITE,SO ASK AROUND AND LISTEN TO THE LIES.......
THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER "QUALITY" CHOICES OUT ON THE MARKET THESE DAYS-THE 300 LB PIG NOT ONE OF THEM.I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND KTM-THEY HAVE SEVERAL VERY LIGHT,EASY TO RIDE MACHINES WITH EXCELENT PERFORMANCE.THEY ALSO COME STRAIGHT FROM THE FACTORY WITH MANY FINE AFTERMARKET COMPONENTS AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT,MANY PARTS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED ON ANY OF THE ASIAN BIKES TO GET THEM UP TO PAR-ALSO DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE BEST FEATURE-ELECTRIC START!
FOUR STROKES CAN BE VERY HARD TO START SOMETIMES-WITH KTM YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT OR LET IT RUIN YOUR DAY ON THE TRAIL-JUST GIVE THAT LITTLE BUTTON A QUICK PUSH AND YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY-BE CAREFULL THOUGH-SOME OF THE "OTHER GUYS" CAN GET A LITTLE JEALOUS SOMETIMES !

  • hourout

Posted February 20, 2002 - 07:04 AM

#4

pesonaly no problems yet with the seal after 2 years of abuse.. but my kick start seal is weaping oil now. :)

  • Arkenamun

Posted February 20, 2002 - 10:58 PM

#5

Nice ubiased post there from Katoom ;-) Shame he/she feels the need to shout and couldn't add anything to the topic :-(

I have had no problem with the counter-shaft seal on my '00 650R (nearly 3000 hard miles). Apparently it will blow if the crank breather gets pinched. This can happen in the area under the seat. Mine looks to have plenty of space, but some people have re-routed the pipe.

If the 650R suits your terrain and riding style, then don't let this put you off. The KTMs are find steeds too, so are TMs and many others. Try B4U buy, or get 1 of each :-)

Cheers,

Ian
'00 XR650R
'01 200EXC
'92 TM125E

  • Terrain Rider 4z

Posted February 20, 2002 - 04:33 PM

#6

Katoom, please read your private messages under your profile. This was written a few weeks ago, please play along. Ryan

  • Spacehog

Posted February 21, 2002 - 08:17 AM

#7

thanks for the replies there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
Katoom I think if your bike was blowing that many seals and the majority of people haven't had one blow then there was something wrong with your particular bike rather than a design fault as such.

  • COrider

Posted February 22, 2002 - 10:46 PM

#8

If you think you will have a problem with your seal, they cost a whole 5 dollars at Summers Racing Components (www.srcinc.net). Buy a spare if you want. They can be changed quickly and easily, and don't take up much room in a tool pack. If you are looking at a KTM - they make a great bike, but they require about 4-5 times the upkeep of an XR (the common trade off for perfomance and reliability). When I am 80 miles from the nearest road, reliability takes on a whole new meaning.

  • bhoth

Posted February 22, 2002 - 12:31 PM

#9

I've had my 00 XR650R since March 2nd of 2000 and no problems with the seal blowing.

I also checked the routing of the crankshaft vent but have plenty of room so I have left it alone.

  • TT650R

Posted February 22, 2002 - 07:27 PM

#10

Here's a procedure that applies to most any seal or bearing race installation..It should only be done if the surface of the aluminum is deemed to smooth(if you can push a seal in with with you thumbs that might be to smooth)or if the race goes in to easy, It requires you take a sharp round punch and lightly "upset" the surface in as many places as possible leaving small barbs behind giving the seal something to grip...This works, however I would suggest that if your the heavy handed sort you use as small a hammer as you could find....since people don't seem to know if thier seals are blowing out due to exessive crankcase pressure or due to above mentioned problem this is my opinion and if mine blows I'll be getting out the punch...

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Spacehog

Posted February 23, 2002 - 06:19 AM

#11

sounds a little harsh but i see your point.
What about a bearing fit compound or something like that?

  • TT650R

Posted February 23, 2002 - 08:36 AM

#12

I guess if you visualize the procedure it may look kind of "caveman" but in 23years of periodically using this trick it has never caused any adverse damage when done properly and I always have the piece of mind that I know the seal has more bite in the hole it resides in.As far as sealant's are concerned, permatex avaition is the only one I've seen to adhere to both the seal and hole equally.Some sealants will actually help the seal fall out due to lack of equal adheasion at both surfaces.Remember that this is only done in the absense of a superseded seal or a factory fix that actually works...Good luck...

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: TT650R ]

  • Bob_J

Posted February 23, 2002 - 08:06 PM

#13

I hope KATOOM never has to buy parts for his machine!!
If he falls on the shifter side and bends anything, it MAJOR BUCKS to fix, also I think the piston costs about $400.00. Honda parts are not cheap, but K T M stuff is OUTRAGEOUS. If the only problems with the B R P are the seal and it's weight, IT'S O K with me. KATOOM go over to the K T M board and do your slamming, leave the Honda crowd alone, I for one, look for helpfull hints from the members with similar bikes, not B___S___
from some disgruntled owner, Your opinion is welcome, but your constant slamming is getting Very OLD!!

Bob J

  • Spacehog

Posted February 24, 2002 - 01:25 AM

#14

I had a look on the KTM forum and there are quite a few posts about countershaft seals blowing would you believe!!

  • Terrain Rider 4z

Posted February 24, 2002 - 06:03 AM

#15

As for Katoom, he has been warned. Interesting that the KTMs and even the DRZs are blowing countershaft seals. Could it be the new liquid cooled, high compression technology?

  • terryhotshoe

Posted February 25, 2002 - 03:11 PM

#16

Xr650 counter shaft seal well I replaced mine for 5 bucks just as a preventive measure.Its well known that if the crank breather hose gets pinched, blocked it will blow!!As far as the ktm I just rode next to one for 430 miles off road in two days I dont know if it was my riding ability or his but I was not really impressed!Yes its lighter etc but as others in this group mentioned I would rather enjoy piece of mind when riding than having to worry about breaking down!!Also the cost and high maintance is not to my likeing.I have been riding for over 40 years off road, my dad raced with people such as gary bailey and the thing I learned was its more important to finish the ride or race than how light or fast your bike is!!my two cents terry.

  • XRSpeedRacer

Posted February 27, 2002 - 07:09 AM

#17

I have blown out two. The first time it was fixed under warranty and the second time I had to pay to have it replaced since the warranty time period had already elapsed. Since the second one, no problems as of yet. However, check the part number on the countershaft seal of the 2002 and it is different from 2000 or 2001(somebody correct me if I am wrong) which I would assume means that Honda knew there was a problem with those seals and finaly came up with a solution.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: XRSpeedRacer ]

  • terryhotshoe

Posted February 27, 2002 - 05:42 PM

#18

Countershaft seal well when I went to buy the part from the dealer I told him I have heard of quite Afew blowing.His reply was it was news to him!!He then went on to say that honda is always improving there parts and that new part # does not mean that the one that came with the bike was bad.Conclusion dont believe all what the dealers have to say!!usually its a pinched breather hose but it also could be some owners do not know how to check there oil rt!!The result is to much oil in the bike than the seal blows.ITs a very easy job just take the counter sprocket off and get a pair of cer clip pliers then remove the cir clip and carefully prie the seal out and tap the new on with a socket of the same dia it takes about 15min I would reccomend everyone do it for the 5 or so bucks the new seal costs. terry.

  • TT650R

Posted February 28, 2002 - 05:44 PM

#19

Well I learned something on this thread...On the above post by me earlier I suggested a possible aid in holding in the seals,what I was not aware of is the use of a snap-ring holding in the seal(I have not had to replace mine...yet)It was my understanding from some of the post here and on other boards that the seal were falling out.Anyway I just wanted people to know (some sound desperate)that if you were thinking of taking extra measures to stop blowing seals this will NOT help.....

  • handy_andy

Posted March 03, 2002 - 08:57 AM

#20

I have an couple of xr 650 i do maintanance for one of them (modell 2000 3000km) had in an off road race , very muddy, blow the countershaft seal. Because of the mud he did not notice , engine seized , new cylinder, camshaft, piston, crankshaft(complete) was needed . Honda refunded appr 400 Euro . Cause was obstructed carter ventilation, I think all xr650 are at risk. I reroute all carter vent hoses to open (like xr 600). regards.





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