Rocket Exhaust For XR650R. #1 Period.



20 replies to this topic
  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted July 31, 2001 - 05:42 AM

#1

I had a 2000 XR400R with over $9K invested, amazing bike but I'm faster through the tree on the 650R. Anyway, after spending a small fortune on exhaust systems I came to the conclusion that the bike ran best and was quietest with the stock header, muffler and a less restrictive "Baja Baffle" from baja designs. This was GREAT once I figured it all out.

Now with the 650 I'm doing it all over again! I have tested just about every exhaust on the market and the first thing I've learned is that the Stock Header Pipe is the only way to go. Every single header pipe I have used has robbed power from the low end of the bike.

In my opinion the stock header pipe with heat wrap is the best. Period.

Of all the exhausts I've tested (with the exception of one!) they have all involved a trade off. Usually they increase the mid and top but you lose a little on bottom. Or, vice versa. In fact, this has been my experience with all bikes over the past 15 years. Until 3 days ago.

I had a 650R that I bought from Scott Summers. Needless to say, this bike had so much power it was initimidating. Word was that the motor was all stock. It even had the stock header!

But the Exhaust was a White Brothers E-Series with 12 discs. After Testing a number of different quiet exhausts on my 2001 I became concerned that my bike was a lemon compared to the summers bike. So, one day I put the E-Series off his bike on my new 2001. Jetting was 65(s) pilot and 172 main at sea level.

THE RESULT

In my 15 years I have never put an exhaust on a bike and had it increase power from Idle all the way to red line. In fact, the powerband become that of a mild 2 stroke. From right off idle it pulls like a diesel truck! It the mid it hits like a super bike! And on top it revs like a 2 stroke!

I don't work for white brothers but (in my opinion) this exhaust is the NUMBER ONE exhaust for the 650R. Period.

THE ONLY CATCH

THe only catch is that this exhaust is LOUD. REAL LOUD! Since there is more power on top than I could ever us I will experiment with dropping the discs and let you know what my

  • xr600r

Posted July 31, 2001 - 11:05 AM

#2

this is somewhat off topic, but your
faster in the trees on a 650 than you
were on the 400? i ride a 600 and thought
about a 650 but i had heard it is a real
pig in the tight stuff. would i be at all
happy with a 650? i do o.k. with my 600
in the tight, but i figured the 650
would seem alot heavier. what do you think?

  • gtms34

Posted July 31, 2001 - 03:44 PM

#3

The 650 can be dialed in to work anywhere IMHO. I ran nothing but tight stuff for the first 3 weeks to get comfortable. Then desert, then back to tighter single track. I am totally satisfied with the 650 now. I have been able to ride my friends new WR426 every week as well. I have been able to turn easier on my bike, and the power is totally different. The WR needs to slip the clutch to get going. My XR has lots of mods to get where it is now. I don't know what you have done to your 600. A stock 650R needs at least $250 in mods just to run right. For what I do the 650R is the best bike for the money.

Kevin

  • EX_CR500_Rider

Posted July 31, 2001 - 03:55 PM

#4

Kevin (gtms43)
Can you elaborate on what mods you are refering to that help the turning? I want to get a steering stabilizer next. But that is more than $250.

------------------

  • TwinSparXR

Posted July 31, 2001 - 06:15 PM

#5

jpeters, I have a 00XR650 with a White Bros. E-series pipe also, it's good to here that I'm running the rifght one.
I also have a 97XR400 with suspention mods but basicly stock, runs realy good though.
Last week I did an experiment, I wanted to see witch bike I was faster on, timed by my brother, running our 3.5 mile tight woods loop,
1st lap 650r 12:15,
2nd lap 400 12:25,
3rd lap 400 12:15,
4th lap 650r 11:50.
My last lap when I was the tiredest I went 25 seconds faster than any other, the 650r is an amazing motorcycle.

  • Matt96xr6

Posted July 31, 2001 - 07:59 PM

#6

three things I dont like about the WB pipe:

1. heavy compared to others on the market
2. loud as all can be
3. disc design can pack up with mud in the woods and bog the power

That plus the fact that you have the cheezy fake rear exhuast on it and you still have to buy a quiet core insert and packing for it.

I want to know if anyone has run the ProCircuit T4 pipes on a XR? if so, how were they? I know the yamaha guys love the DrD pipe (modified T4).

Thanks

  • gtms34

Posted August 01, 2001 - 07:17 AM

#7

I did three things. I installed a BRP triple clamp. I run the bars 19mm forward of the stock position. The bars clamps are at stock height. I put pro taper (CR hi bend) bars on. Last, I put a 15 tooth countershaft sprocket on. That pulled the rear tire forward. I'm in denial, I ride the XR like a MX bike. FYI, I bought the package deal with triple clamp, bars, stabilizer. You have probably seen them from BRP, Scotts, etc. If you go with this, call Jim or Cameron at BRP. They are the best I found for helping choose the right setup.
Good luck,let me know if you need anything else.

Kevin

  • TwinSparXR

Posted August 01, 2001 - 05:48 PM

#8

I run the turn down end cap in my cheezy White Brothers E-series exhaust just like Scott Summers does on his race bikes.

What difference do you thik 1lb weight difference on the exhaust will make on the XR650r Matt? Absolutly none!

If I were concerned about the noise level I wouldn't have bought a pipe for it in the first place.

  • Matt96xr6

Posted August 01, 2001 - 05:56 PM

#9

it was more than 1 pound. FMF vs the WB unit. Almost double for the WB.

I am not worried about the bike weight, but like my supertrapp, the mounting eyes are cracking and splitting. So long term reliability kind of goes to crap with the extra weight of the unit.

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted August 01, 2001 - 10:06 PM

#10

Originally posted by xr600r:
this is somewhat off topic, but your
faster in the trees on a 650 than you
were on the 400? i ride a 600 and thought
about a 650 but i had heard it is a real
pig in the tight stuff. would i be at all
happy with a 650? i do o.k. with my 600
in the tight, but i figured the 650
would seem alot heavier. what do you think?


I haven't ridden a 600 in a while so I can't comment. I'm 6'3" 225lbs so the only time I feel the weight of the 650R is when I'm winded and have to pick it up. I've timed myself over a variety of courses and I'm always faster on the 650R. I believe these are the reasons why:

1) THE POWER. The power of the 650R is extremely tractable compared to my 400R. This allows me to hook up much better at lower RPM instead of having to scream the bike and bounce off everything. End result is I can carry more speed through rocks, ruts, tree roots and the slippery stuff. More importantly, I can conserve energy. If I set up a 10 mile loop and do just one lap I'm not too much slower on the 400. But if I do ten laps (on the 650R) I'm so much faster it's ridiculous.

2) THE POWER AGAIN. With the 650R there is GOBS of tractable power everywhere. Imagine the power of a CR500 but yet extremely smooth and managable; that's the 650R. No matter what RPM you're at, all you have to do is turn the throttle and the power is there! This allows me to literally steer the bike at BOTH ENDS. Again, end result is carrying MORE SPEED through difficult sections.

3) THE STEERING GEOMETRY. Honda did a truly amazing job on the 650R. Although the bike is about 17lbs (after mods) heavier than my 400, it actually feels incredibly light once rolling 3mph or more. Becuase of the raked out front end it is extremely stable. As a result, when braking heavy over rocks, ruts, whoops etc. it feels LIGHTER than the 400! This rake make the bike feels sluggish and slow steering if you ride it slow but is a total asset when riding at race speed (note: my biggest gripe with my 400 was the raked in steering).

4) THE WEIGHT! Believe it or not after talking with Scott Summers I believe the weight is an advantage (and disadvantage) in some areas. One of those areas is rocks. Whether tight or slow, on super rocky jeep roads I have yet to ride with a bumble bee (aka 2-stroke) or any 400cc thumper that can pass me. The 650R absolutely eats rocky and whoopy terrain for breakfast . After all, this is what the bike was built for. I also notice that under heavy braking over rough terrain the bike is MUCH, MUCH MORE CONFIDENT AND STABLE. While part of this is due to the extra rake, some of it is due the weight I believe. I also believe the weight can be a definite advantage for hooking up in the loose stuff.

(IMPORTANT: please note that my bike is far from the stock machine. I have pro-tapers, fork brace, springs and gold valves and my suspension was valved by a friend with 33 YEARS OF SUSPENSION EXPERIENCE).

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  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted August 01, 2001 - 10:20 PM

#11

Originally posted by TwinSparXR:
jpeters, I have a 00XR650 with a White Bros. E-series pipe also, it's good to here that I'm running the rifght one.
I also have a 97XR400 with suspention mods but basicly stock, runs realy good though.
Last week I did an experiment, I wanted to see witch bike I was faster on, timed by my brother, running our 3.5 mile tight woods loop,
1st lap 650r 12:15,
2nd lap 400 12:25,
3rd lap 400 12:15,
4th lap 650r 11:50.
My last lap when I was the tiredest I went 25 seconds faster than any other, the 650r is an amazing motorcycle.


Thanks for sharing. This is the kind of content we need to keep posting to surpass the community at the Yahoo Groups 650 Site which has NO EMAIL NOTIFICATION for posts.

You results on the course don't surprise me. My results are the same. Once you have the suspension upgraded on the 650R and a fork brace you'll be really rippin.

Now, imagine your results on that 3.5 mile course and calculate the difference in times if it was a cross country race and you logged a total of 87.5 miles?

I believe you'd be about 10 minutes faster on the 650R over the course of a 3 hour race!

(NOTE: If you haven't got your suspension done yet I've got a friend with 33 years suspension experience that did my 2000 400 and my 2001 650R if you're interested)

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted August 01, 2001 - 10:29 PM

#12

Originally posted by Matt96xr6:
three things I dont like about the WB pipe:

1. heavy compared to others on the market
2. loud as all can be
3. disc design can pack up with mud in the woods and bog the power

That plus the fact that you have the cheezy fake rear exhuast on it and you still have to buy a quiet core insert and packing for it.

I want to know if anyone has run the ProCircuit T4 pipes on a XR? if so, how were they? I know the yamaha guys love the DrD pipe (modified T4).

Thanks


I agree that it is TOO LOUD! I will be doing work with the Quiet Core Option later this week as well as the FMF and Big Gun quiet series pipes as well. I'll posts the results extensively as you can imagine.

It is also heavier than the other pipes. It still saves about 1.5 pounds over the 7.5 pound stocker but some of the other pipes save over 2.5 pounds. The complete T4 system (with head pipe) slices 5 pounds 6 ounces off the bike to be exact.

Personally I think one should just give themselves an enema before riding if they ever consider changing the stock 650R head pipe. BIG MISTAKE. (I'll save this lecture for another post)

I haven't heard of the mud problem before.

I will be testing the T4 (rear section only) in the future.

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted August 01, 2001 - 10:32 PM

#13

Originally posted by Matt96xr6:
it was more than 1 pound. FMF vs the WB unit. Almost double for the WB.

I am not worried about the bike weight, but like my supertrapp, the mounting eyes are cracking and splitting. So long term reliability kind of goes to crap with the extra weight of the unit.


GOOD POINT! I could see that happening.

I have to say, it is the FIRST exhaust I have EVER put on a bike that actually INCREASED the power NOT in one area, BUT EVERYWHERE!!!

TRULY THE BEST PERFORMANCE WISE>

  • Matt96xr6

Posted August 03, 2001 - 06:05 PM

#14

Keep us updated! this is great info as I am debating on taking the Supercrapp to someone to weld the eyes up and play with a quiet core insert or abandon the pipe for something new.


Here is one for you all. 1996 XR600, take a xr650r pipe (the new xr650R, not the L pig! OMG, oink oink) and drill out the endcap and use it. How would the power and noise be?

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted August 04, 2001 - 07:24 AM

#15

Originally posted by Matt96xr6:
Keep us updated! this is great info as I am debating on taking the Supercrapp to someone to weld the eyes up and play with a quiet core insert or abandon the pipe for something new.

I have ordered the quiet core insert for the E-Series but WB was back ordered. I have complete testing on the FMF PowerCore IV Q-Series, Big Gun Q-Series (with and without the head pipe) and the Stock Unit w/drilled out baffle, HRC Baffle and Modified "pee trap" HRC Baffle (search archive for details).

The worst part of all is that after the article is done I doubt I'll be able to sell anyone of these systems to anyone on here. The FMF was over $300 and the complete Big Gun System was FRIGGIN $500!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Note: I tried to get a refund on the piece of crap after one day of use and they REFUSED! Fine by me, the TRUTH is going to cost Big Gun a hell of a lot more than $500! I wrote a report about my 400 and it went all over the world -without trying- to get it send a blank email to XR400Story@InfoGeneratorPro.com.

Soon I will write one about the 650R so everyone else doesn't have to get ripped off by these pipe companies!

I'll post the exhaust article in less than a week...


Here is one for you all. 1996 XR600, take a xr650r pipe (the new xr650R, not the L pig! OMG, oink oink) and drill out the endcap and use it. How would the power and noise be?


NOTE: This will work well except a little restricted on top. However, it may be fine as the 96 600 I don't believe revs as high as the 650R.

  • tonytexas

Posted October 01, 2001 - 05:13 PM

#16

Anybody know what gearing I should run on front and rear sprockets for tight wood ?
I use BIG GUN whole system(not happy with the power,just lighter I guest.
Thanks guys
Tony

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted October 01, 2001 - 09:26 PM

#17

Originally posted by tonytexas:
Anybody know what gearing I should run on front and rear sprockets for tight wood ?
I use BIG GUN whole system(not happy with the power,just lighter I guest.
Thanks guys
Tony


Some guys drop one tooth on the front sprocket from 14 to 13. I tried it but didn't like it... If you're interested in buying the sprocket from me it's only got one ride on it... Got it from MOOSE. cost almost 30 bucks new. I'll sell it for $18 bucks delivered. My office number is 805 692 6890.

I'll also have many, many XR exhausts for sale. SOme brand new, some used once. One from Scott Summers XR that I bought from him.

  • Matt96xr6

Posted October 02, 2001 - 05:20 PM

#18

How is the testing going? Email me with what you have for sale on exhaust. I may be looking for a ProCircuit of FMF unit.

Matt
mjbobbitt@yahoo.com

  • Keyser_Zoze

Posted October 02, 2001 - 05:35 PM

#19

Originally posted by Matt96xr6:
How is the testing going? Email me with what you have for sale on exhaust. I may be looking for a ProCircuit of FMF unit.

Matt
mjbobbitt@yahoo.com


Just call me and I'll call you back.. I'm sick of typing! Lots of good info, though!

  • rvl

Posted October 03, 2001 - 05:29 PM

#20

Hi, I have four questions for you:
1. You seem to have some bad feelings for the Yahoo Groups XR650R group. Why?

2. What is the name of the suspension tuner you used? I am sure he would like the buisness generated from a happy customer, and I would like the name of a competent suspension person who actually had my bike, an XR650R, dialed in.

3. What other mods did you make other that the ones mentioned in other posts in this thread? I would like the best bang for my buck, as I don't think I have as much money as you do for testing different products for my XR.

4. When are you going to publish the results of your pipe tests?

Thanks,
rvl

Originally posted by jpeters:
Thanks for sharing. This is the kind of content we need to keep posting to surpass the community at the Yahoo Groups 650 Site which has NO EMAIL NOTIFICATION for posts.

You results on the course don't surprise me. My results are the same. Once you have the suspension upgraded on the 650R and a fork brace you'll be really rippin.

Now, imagine your results on that 3.5 mile course and calculate the difference in times if it was a cross country race and you logged a total of 87.5 miles?

I believe you'd be about 10 minutes faster on the 650R over the course of a 3 hour race!

(NOTE: If you haven't got your suspension done yet I've got a friend with 33 years suspension experience that did my 2000 400 and my 2001 650R if you're interested)







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