WR- YZF 450



63 replies to this topic
  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted August 13, 2002 - 06:55 AM

#41

Originally posted by yznvegas:
Ego, it's a tap in. A gimme. Just pick it up
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ego wrote: "WHAT ?"


Not a big golfer huh? :D

Every Green should be a TABLETOP and every tee box should be a DOUBLE from the blue tees to the whites!!!

:)

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: THUMPIN' ROCK HUCKER ]

  • John_Lorenz

Posted August 13, 2002 - 07:29 AM

#42

Golf Sucks the only purpose for golf is for those who cant do anything else :)

If ya cant hit it with a bat it aint a sport

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: E.G.O.**** ]

  • wFo

Posted August 13, 2002 - 07:29 AM

#43

According to the guys in blue shirts working out of the factory semi at Washougal national, the overall gearing reduction for 4th on the new 450 is nearly identical to 5th on the 426. They have merely widened the ratios due to the increased power, more gears are not necessary(less shifting=better). They stated that the desert guys will still be using YZ's with higher overall gearing(sprockets). If there is going to be an issue, it will be the lack of a low enough 1st gear for the woods and the inherent stalling, not a top speed issue.

The gear ratios and internal reductions are available for the yz on the yamaha web site. If we do the math, we see that the overall reduction for the new 450 in 1st gear is 18.6397 compared to 19.072 for a yz426 (2.1%higher) and 24.962 for a WR400(36% higher). What we are losing is the WR granny gear for the really tight stuff.

When you look at top gear, the 450 overall reduction is 10.146, which is about the same as a 426 with an extra tooth on the rear sprocket. If we assume an 11,000 rpm and do the math, we come up with about 85mph stock for the new 450. We can assume that it will easily pull higher gearing, with the limitations being how high of a first you are comfortable with.

I can see it as very similar to what we have done for years with off roading motocross machinery. 15 tooth counter in the desert, 14 or 13 in the woods. My experience as an expert level rider in the desert on a KX500 that would actually go that fast, is that only a very small handful of riders will ever use 85 mph on anything short of a graded or paved road.

I don't believe for a minute that the 4 speed was to save the half pound gear. It is about not needing the extra granny first for the intended purpose(moto-x), so why not remove it for a more compact engine or allow for slightly stronger gears that are used? I think that the moto-x people will rave about it, and we off-roaders will adapt with sprocket changes or by a WR...

  • John_Lorenz

Posted August 13, 2002 - 07:52 AM

#44

I would also bet that after the wr and the yz are here, there will be interchangable gears that can widen shorten or suit the rider. I just got off the phone with my local dealer, in years past Yamaha has always offered to licensed racers or support racers in all ranks,, access to there R&D stuff.

You could buy from the Yamaha race Dept differant gear boxes close ratio wide ratio and so on. I replaced my R5's gearbox with a TD-1 Close Ration and opted for the Dry Clutch. My 74 yz short tracker had a a clutch and shift combo for the right side as well as the barral was a bit more ported and polished I got that direct from Yamah Racing Japan.

I would bet that Places like Yamah of Troy or Drd can get these items.........

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: E.G.O.**** ]

  • rpadgett2

Posted August 13, 2002 - 08:26 AM

#45

Man I can't wait for the someone on each side to ride this thing.

Then the fun should really start.

I can see it now "My 4-speed will beat up your 5-speed"

  • Wyatt

Posted August 13, 2002 - 03:18 PM

#46

Thats what this whole stupid ass argument is about.

Frankly I dont care, its the naysaers that have not even ridden one yet thats pissing and moaning

Forsited I guess knows all Sees all

EGO,

For someone that doesn't care one way or another, you have posted atleast ten times on this subject. If you ever find a post that you do care about, I guess you'll compose a thesis.

  • John_Lorenz

Posted August 14, 2002 - 06:54 AM

#47

:) Just an antogonist at heart

  • therapture

Posted August 14, 2002 - 07:49 AM

#48

Originally posted by wFo:
According to the guys in blue shirts working out of the factory semi at Washougal national, the overall gearing reduction for 4th on the new 450 is nearly identical to 5th on the 426. They have merely widened the ratios due to the increased power, more gears are not necessary(less shifting=better). They stated that the desert guys will still be using YZ's with higher overall gearing(sprockets). If there is going to be an issue, it will be the lack of a low enough 1st gear for the woods and the inherent stalling, not a top speed issue.



FINALLY...an intelligent post with backup. If you rode a 426 and had a 50 tooth rear sprocket, then the new 450 is THE SAME TOP SPEED IN FOURTH as your old 426 as in FIFTH.

Simple....you lose the granny gear as he states above :)

So by that line of reasoning, if you are happy with your 426's top speed simply by changing sprocket sizes, then ergo, you will ALSO be as happy with the new 450's top speed, by simply changing sprocket sizes yet again. Probably happier since the new motor should have more torque and be able to pull taller gearing easier....

  • wFo

Posted August 14, 2002 - 03:14 PM

#49

Actually, compared to the YZ426 you are getting only a 2.1% higher 1st gear and about a 2% lower top, with a bigger spread between the gears. The granny gear is what you get in the WR. This is reportedly compensated for by the additional torque, and the fact that the YZ never needed 5 gears in the first place(see-Tim Ferry's 3 speed). Ultimately, you should have a more ridable machine for MX, and the gearing compromises that we have all made for years with the moto bike off road will be the same.

After years of making these compromises, I finally bought a WR250f in '01 because of the gearbox. After spending mucho bucks on a fuel tank and seat, an exhaust that works, cutting grey wires, changing timing and throwing away kickstands, overflow tanks,lights and anything else not necessary to make the bike move, I have a bike that is still slower than a yz and won't pull the gaps in the gearbox anyway.

So now what? Do I get the YZ 450 and just change the gearing and fuel tank for the conditions like all of the experts end up doing anyway, or the WR and hope that I can jettison most of the 20 pounds and get the damn thing to run. I know the new WR has a decent seat and the go button, o ring , 18 inch, granny gear, etc.. It's all a compromise, and frankly it is driving me nuts!! But what a great choice to have to make.

  • therapture

Posted August 14, 2002 - 03:27 PM

#50

Originally posted by wFo:
Actually, compared to the YZ426 you are getting only a 2.1% higher 1st gear and about a 2% lower top, with a bigger spread between the gears. The granny gear is what you get in the WR.



BUT...most YZ426 riders ADDED 1 tooth to the rear sprocket, and this is where the difference comes in. I.E., my 2000 426 with 5 gears and a 50 tooth rear sprocket is the SAME top speed as the stock YZ450. According to Yamaha's own guys at least...

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: therapture ]

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Hick

Posted August 14, 2002 - 10:02 PM

#51

Originally posted by therapture:



BUT...most YZ426 riders ADDED 1 tooth to the rear sprocket...


Most but not all. Most in my area don't. I subtract at least 2.

I'm w/ WFO. Buy a WR and put it on a diet or YZ and deal with the transmission issue?

With the new auto-decomp who needs an e-start?

I don't know how Yamaha's version will work, but I for one can change the filter on my YZF quicker than the "easy-access" KTM RFS with the filter access through the side panel and those unreliable dzus things. To me that is just one more thing I'm going to break.

And one more thing added to the list of mods needed to make the WR into something that would work as well/be as competitive off road, out west...

...as good as a YZ w/ five gears.

  • therapture

Posted August 15, 2002 - 04:37 AM

#52

Well Hick, one good thing is that the new motor should pull taller gearing better than the 426....so I would concur about getting the YZF instead of the WR and making the gearing work...who wants all that extra weight anyway!? Defeats the purpose of building a lighter bike :)

  • motomike137

Posted August 15, 2002 - 06:06 AM

#53

I have a hunch that most of you guys are gonna have egg on your face once this bike gets in our hands and we get some experience on it. How many bad moves has Yamaha made since the original YZF400 in 98. Not many that I can think of. These bikes are all so good and are way above the capabilities of most of us. For those of you all hung up on the top end capabilities, the numbers say that top gear on the 450 is almost exactly the same as the 426 and from the sounds of it the motor will easily pull much taller gearing. If Yamaha is confident in releasing this bike with a 4 gear tranny I have a feeling it will work very well.

  • Mark_UK

Posted August 15, 2002 - 06:35 AM

#54

you guys that are ridding must such great riders.
if you need more gears for MX then Stephan Evets (most successfull world champion of all time,,,oh and in all bike class's)
oh and Tim Ferry,,,oh and jimmy button,,,,all of whom rode with just 4 gears
if only yamaha would give you what you want,,, then you'd be much faster right.

personally as an average rider ive never been on an MX track that ive had to use both first gear and 5th gear.

ive ridden plenty on enduro event that ive needed 1st and 5th.
errrrr maybe thats why yamaha have made a,,,

YZF450 = for motocross
AND,,,,
WR450F =ENDURO

you have the choice,,
both i suspect will be fast, specialised ,event winning bike.

could be worse,,, could be honda riders

YZF450 MOTOCROSS
or
XR400 ENDURO

:)

  • yznvegas

Posted August 15, 2002 - 06:47 AM

#55

Mark UK wrote: ive ridden plenty on enduro event that ive needed 1st and 5th.
errrrr maybe thats why yamaha have made a,,,

YZF450 = for motocross
AND,,,,
WR450F =ENDURO

Yznvegas: This is not relevant because there is a lot of riding that falls in between motos and enduros. Some of us don't want all that extra stuff that comes on the wr. We don't like the powerband or the huge tank and all that crap. My point is that if you don't like having 5th gear, than don't shift into it.

  • Hick

Posted August 15, 2002 - 07:17 AM

#56

Originally posted by yznvegas:
My point is that if you don't like having 5th gear, than don't shift into it.


Well put.

  • Blade275

Posted August 15, 2002 - 08:28 AM

#57

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
why are you guys bringing this back?
wasn't there already a 200+ post about the 4-speed?

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Blade275 ]

  • motomike137

Posted August 15, 2002 - 08:31 AM

#58

Pretend that 4th is 5th, 3rd is 4th, 2nd is 3rd, 1st is 1st & 2nd and Roost! :D :)

  • Mark_UK

Posted August 16, 2002 - 06:42 AM

#59

yznvagas
i understand your point,

but yamaha are offering a bike specially built for the two most popular disaplines.

ok there will be those that dont want a bike so focused on its specific intended use.

but lets face it you now have two base bikes from which to start

buy a wr450 and strip the bits off you dont want.
or
buy the YZ450 and add the bits you do want.

ideally they would produce 3rd bike,,,, but i doubt it.
i know yamaha maybe not offering the perfect bike for your intended use.

but ive yet to find a bike manufacturer that makes the perfect bike.

by the way, in europe the WR's come through with the motocross size tank

  • yznvegas

Posted August 16, 2002 - 08:23 AM

#60

Mark, good point, I guess we will have to evaluate all 5 manufacturers and choose which one best suits our needs. I'm just so happy I got one of the last yz 4-strokes with 5 gears. I'm gonna baby the heck out of this thing and try to get 10 years out of it. That would be awesome, by then everything we know today will be out the window anyway.

Have fun!!!!





Related Content

Wiki
WR Camshaft Swap Info - last post by jamesm113

WR Camshaft Swap Info


Articles
  • 0 replies
Forums
Photo

100 hrs on 2014 yz450f, shim valves or replace them? by ttr230rider6


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • Hot  79 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
Forums
Photo

yz250x vs 450 4t comparisons (preferably desert riding) needed by JakeNorthrupYZ450F


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   Yamaha 2-Stroke
  • 9 replies
Forums
Photo

Is it worth it? (Cam and High compression piston) by macgi77


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Honda   CRF 150/230 F/L
  • Hot  36 replies
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.