Clutch saga part III

14 replies to this topic
  • kfrosty

Posted July 26, 2002 - 09:13 PM



After putting a new set of clutch plates in I found that the raptor lever on the easy setting doesn't really have enough clutch pull length to fully engage the clutch properly. (I know some will argue they get about the same as a stock lever but in my case it isn't so.)

Anyway I put the cable in the middle hole and it work for a Sat. practice and for two motos on Sunday. I won my first moto and cruised to second in the first moto of my second class.

Second set of motos was in position for the overall and had a mental lapse on the last lap. Not so bad because I had them covered. Or so I thought. My last moto I'm on the line. Board goes side ways, I click into gear. Rev ever so slightly and bam my bike shoots into the gate. End up last because of problems getting going.

Take two weeks off and go out yesterday. Want to test the clutch to see if the starting problem was me or the bike. Start bike and put into gear. Clutch engages and disengages as it should. Then hold the clutch all the way in and rev up about half throttle and the bike takes off like I just dumped the clutch. Did this for about 10 minutes but I decided since I had loaded up and driven to my track I might as well ride. Bike ran fine and at the end of the day the problem seemed to go away.

The only thing that worries me here is what could have happened. It's not a problem riding. However, sitting on the gate I don't want this to happen again. Anybody ever ran into this? I've called a couple of people and gotten suggestions that the springs are worn out. (Just replaced them.) Clutch not adjusted properly. (It is best I know how.) I'm going to try putting a little more oil in it. Other than that I'm at a loss.

Took everything back out to make sure there were no grooves and everything was installed properly by the book.

What doesn't make sense is how the clutch can be engaged properly for a little while and suddenly disengage on it's on???????????

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 26, 2002 - 09:19 PM


Did you replace the cable?

could be stretching,just a wild guess

  • kfrosty

Posted July 26, 2002 - 10:12 AM


Good thought but I did that during the initial trouble. Again, what I don't understand one minute works and the next it just totally disengages? If it were a cable or the adjustment I would think it wouldn't be engaging correctly to start with?????

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 26, 2002 - 10:38 AM


Total Brain teaser

I am sure you looked at the cable routing, makeing sure its not bound or the ends are seated good in the housings

  • YZF250Forever

Posted July 26, 2002 - 01:16 PM


Hey I know exactly what you are going through. My dad and I, his 13 year old son, tried everything to get it to work properly. Our problem was just like yours. On starts it pulled like it had no clutch so you couldn't rev it at all. Well we loosened it up and tightened up the cable until we found the place where it happened least but then on the start line I held in the clutch and it pulled just like normal, I put on the rear break hard and started to rev the heck out of the bike, still don't know why I did it but after revving the bike with the rear brake on the clutch "loosened up". It is now my ritual on the starting line. Start bike, put goggles on, shift into 1st and then slam on the rear brake and rev it up. It loosens up to where the clutch acts as normal. Let me know if you have any questions. Hope this helped.

  • moto2000

Posted July 26, 2002 - 01:38 PM


Did you ever have this problem before replacing the clutch plates? I had it happen a few times on my 2000 until I updated to 2001 clutch parts (friction plate, clutch boss spring, seat plate) Do you know the parts I'm talking about? Sounds to me thats the area of your problem.

  • MANIAC998

Posted July 26, 2002 - 04:21 PM


My thought on why this might be happening is that as you rev your bike up, the plates which are barely slipping past one another are causing just enough friction to heat up. Which of course causes them to swell and then drag even more until they swell enough to cause them to engage on there own. This can happen quickly. This is a likely situation because of your raptor lever. That lever has a lighter pull because of a mechanical advantage, but the trade off is that it does not seperate the clutch plates as far as the stocker does. Also, different plates swell differently. Are yours stock? These are things I would look at. Maniac

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  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 27, 2002 - 11:00 AM



Just a thought on this.

Are you absolutly sure you placed the Plates, fiber and spacers in correctly?

If yes then

I would replace the long push rod and the short push rod assembly.

Thsi may be worn and not able to handle the heat from the new clutch

Just a thought...

  • kfrosty

Posted July 27, 2002 - 03:59 PM


Sorry for the delay. To Moto200 no I never had any problems before. As I had mention in some previous listings, I had went to an MSR shorty clutch perch and lever. Yeah I had problems with stalling some but after the new plates the clutch wouldn't engage. I had about 3 different people look at it at the races and the first thing that was said was it was because of the clutch lever. I moved to the middle notch on the clutch lever and that problem went away. Rode a practice day on a Sat and then 3 motos and then all of a sudden this started happening.

Ego, I think we think a like. I'm like you there has to be something I'm doing because there has to be something that has started this behaviour but I've taken these plates out 8 times now and put them back in. The fibers have numbers inscribed on two different "fingers" and I've even went so far as to making sure those numbers went in the same slot in the clutch basket.

I had a friend tell me to try over filling the oil a little that maybe it isn't getting enough oil.

I'm going riding again tomorrow and I'm going to test it as soon as I start it up and let it warm a tad. Then at the end of a moto.

Ego, I think I will try replacing the push rods and bearings.

Also, I think I'm going to get away from this MSR clutch lever and try a hydraulic if I can verify it will work on a 450.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the input.

  • kfrosty

Posted July 28, 2002 - 10:20 AM


FYI. I went riding today and all seemed well. Sat still and hit the rev limiter and bike lunged a touch but not much.

What did I do, I checked the oil this morning and it wasn't on the stick. I put the 1.5 quarts as recommended. So I added oil till it was a touch over the highest mark. I had it filled originally to between the oil marks but it had went down for whatever reason. I also used to checked it after the bike was warmed up. I guess maybe the oil level had something to do with it.

Again, thanks to all who responded.

  • Vanilla_Gorilla

Posted July 28, 2002 - 01:25 PM


i love my magura hydroclutch!

  • J_Bone

Posted July 28, 2002 - 02:38 PM


I use to use the Raptor lever too. My bike did the lunge thing too!! So I replaced (on my 2000) all the clutch plates, Friction plates and springs with 2001 parts and PUT ON MY STOCK LEVER!! Work perfect now!! Oh, I also install a new Hinson hub. :)

  • freestyle111

Posted July 28, 2002 - 03:33 PM


sounds like clutch discs have made notches in basket.if there is file them should also check ends of clutch actuating rod make sure they are not mushroomed.its not raptor clutch lever i have one on a 4 of my bikes and never had problem.have you adjusted cable on both ends or just at perch?

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted July 29, 2002 - 07:55 AM


I had sorta the same deal, but not at the gate, I was trying to the attention of the guy that took that pic of me clearing that long table.

I sat there at a stand still, and revved it to the limiter trying to get his attention, and it lurched and died. I thought that was really wierd. Ive got a Hinson basket and hub, and both look like brand new.
I think what happens is, because the clutch doesnt oil well to start with, when ya rev it like that things heat, swell and then engage themselves. My BSA would do the same thing. Hell, my beeser would drive away with the clutch pulled clear to the bar! Until Yamaha or someone else figures out a way to run the oil level in the case higher, the clutch is going to drag a tad.
I took an idea from this site, to sit there with the clutch in for about a minute or two while the engine warms to allow oil to flow inbetween the plates and properly lube the clutch. At that point it works like its all warmed up.

  • kfrosty

Posted July 29, 2002 - 12:48 PM


Freestyle, the basket is a Hinson and it's smooth as a baby's bottom. No nicks anywhere. I did my adjustments at the bottom first to make sure there was a touch of play and then on the perch.

Actually the middle notch on the MSR isn't so bad now. I'm going to a Hydraulic or possibly a modified Honda perch an lever a riding buddy of mine has been tinkering with. Believe it or not the pull on his YZ 250 is too easy.

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