Stalling after installing Rekluse z-start clutch


15 replies to this topic
  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted June 12, 2004 - 05:36 PM

#1

Hello all,

After reading all the glowing feedback about the z-start, I decided to get onboard. Just finished installing it, but once I put the bike in gear it stalls immediately. I've tightened the spring as much as possible, but still no workie. I plan to call Rekluse first thing Monday, but for now wanted to see if anyone on the forum could help. Here are some data points:

- My bike is a 2000 YZ426f
- The gap between the top friction plate and the top steel plate is .035 which was measured using 2 feeler gauges
- I used only one Rekluse steel drive plate which I placed next to the stock steel plate beneath the top friction plate. This is after removing the top OEM friction and steel plate per the instructions.
- I'm using the light spring.
- The friction plates were dry on the top half, but wet on the bottom half. Did not soak them in oil. Should I? Could I try putting the bike in gear from a slight roll to get the clutch oil circulating?
- With engine off, when I put it in gear I can push it, however there is a good amount of resistance...far from free rolling you get when in neutral. Is this normal?
- With engine off and spring off, the clutch actuator arm shows not resistance when pulling and pushing. It just stops at each end. Should there be a range where you start to feel slight tension kicking in?
- I triple checked to make sure I used only 7 washer\spacers.
- Finally, I noticed that the hole in the shaft of the clutch throw out was not perfectly centered; however it seemed to fit ok. Could this be the problem? Alos, I used a q-tip to clean out some metal drill shavings that was in the shaft when I took it out of the packing.

Any ideas what my problem could be?

GeorgiaBoy

  • OC768

Posted June 12, 2004 - 07:07 PM

#2

Hmm, watch the actuator arm when you start the bike before you put it in gear; does it move out as soon as you are idling? could be that your idle is too high and your spring isn't adjusted tight enough which causes the clutch to engage before the engine is even at idle speed.

The spring should be taut/under tension at rest (either alot or a little depending what kind of engagement you want of course).


I'm not in the know on the 2000 YZ's, but wasn't there a clutch issue that year? with grabbiness or something? ..might be worth investigating. :thumbsup:
:awww:
Good luck

  • John_Lorenz

Posted June 13, 2004 - 03:55 AM

#3

Hello all,

After reading all the glowing feedback about the z-start, I decided to get onboard. Just finished installing it, but once I put the bike in gear it stalls immediately. I've tightened the spring as much as possible, but still no workie. I plan to call Rekluse first thing Monday, but for now wanted to see if anyone on the forum could help. Here are some data points:

- My bike is a 2000 YZ426f I have a 2000
- The gap between the top friction plate and the top steel plate is .035 which was measured using 2 feeler gauges
Thats about right
- I used only one Rekluse steel drive plate which I placed next to the stock steel plate beneath the top friction plate.
WARNING WARNING WARNING Wrong the Instructions state SPECIFICLY NOT TO DO THIS
- The friction plates were dry on the top half, but wet on the bottom half. Did not soak them in oil. Should I? Could I try putting the bike in gear from a slight roll to get the clutch oil circulating?
UNless the frictions are Brand new, not needed, if they are new Soaking them over night is a Yes definetly
- With engine off, when I put it in gear I can push it, however there is a good amount of resistance...far from free rolling you get when in neutral. Is this normal?
Not normal Bad Install, Start again from Step 1
- With engine off and spring off, the clutch actuator arm shows not resistance when pulling and pushing. It just stops at each end. Should there be a range where you start to feel slight tension kicking in?
No this is normal
- I triple checked to make sure I used only 7 washer\spacers.
Good
- Finally, I noticed that the hole in the shaft of the clutch throw out was not perfectly centered; however it seemed to fit ok. Could this be the problem? Alos, I used a q-tip to clean out some metal drill shavings that was in the shaft when I took it out of the packing.
Only thing I can add is this
Start from scratch, if you add a reklus plate you must remove a OEM plate, I think you simply have one to many plates installed.

Any ideas what my problem could be?

GeorgiaBoy




  • HaremScarem

Posted June 13, 2004 - 05:56 AM

#4

"- I used only one Rekluse steel drive plate which I placed next to the stock steel plate beneath the top friction plate.
WARNING WARNING WARNING Wrong the Instructions state SPECIFICLY NOT TO DO THIS



7. Remove the top friction disc and steel drive plate—these will not be re-inserted into the bike!
Take one Rekluse .055 drive plate and stack it under the new top most friction disc on top of the
stock .047 drive plate.

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted June 13, 2004 - 01:59 PM

#5

HaremScarem, you beat me to quoting instruction #7. I have read the instructions about 5 times before installing. John where in the directions does it say you should not stack the Rekluse steel plate on top of the OEM steel plate?

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted June 13, 2004 - 02:18 PM

#6

Update…..I couldn't wait until Monday to call Rekluse, so I decided to start the bike in neutral and coast it down my driveway before putting it in 1st gear. The bike did not stall and since there were no abnormal noises, I road it about a minute, shifting up and down through the gears and then coming to a stop while still in gear. To my delight the bike did not stall. After riding a few more minutes, yes I know my neighbors were really happy to hear me racing back and forth down the street on Sunday…but you guys understand, I can now see why everyone loves the z-start. Can’t wait to get this thing in the Georgia woods!

I’m guessing that all I needed was some oil flow over the clutch discs. This may be systematic since my bike’s clutch has always be grabby when cold….which I understand is common for 2000 426s. None-the-less, I still plan to call Rekluse to see if I should be concerned about my install experience. Will keep you posted.

W...Thanks for everyone's help and responsiveness!

  • fatmancantfly

Posted June 13, 2004 - 04:34 PM

#7

Something to check. Make sure your clutch arm moves when you rev your engine. You'll be able to see about 15 to 20 degrees of movement. Another trick I always did to keep from idling the bike too long was hold the clutch arm back while I clicked the bike into gear. You can let go as soon as it's in gear and it won't stall. Now go back and adjust your tension spring to your desired stall.

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted June 15, 2004 - 03:25 AM

#8

Spoke to Patrick at Rekluse yesterday. Here is what I learned…

- Some clutch drag is NOT abnormal after first installing the z-start. He suggested ridding for about one hour, rechecking the gap and then reporting back if it is still a problem.
- As for the bore hole in the clutch throw-out shaft being slightly off center, he said it shouldn’t be a problem as long as it fit through the center hole in pressure plate. He said the critical part was the depth of the bore itself. He said the end of the throw-out should fit flush with the top face of the pressure plate. This can be checked by pressing on the pressure plate without having to remove the top plate to inspect it visually. If there is compression movement equivalent to the gap setting then you should be good to go.
- As stated in the instructions, putting a Rekluse steel clutch plate on top of the OEM steel clutch plate is the correct install procedure.
- In another TT discussion tread it was recommended to ride in one gear higher than you would normally. His reply was that it varied with one’s riding style and technique. As a result he could not say one way or the other. However, the more the clutch slips before full engagement the faster the friction plates will wear out and the hotter the clutch will get…manual clutch or z-start alike. So, I interrupt this to mean ride the same as you always have….just let the e-start do the clutch work.
- I asked about getting a couple of replacement springs for backup just in case I lost one. He said they would be $10. Then I asked if there was anything special about the springs to make them cost so much. His reply was not that he knew of. They just need be have the same characteristics. He mentioned one guy even using a rubber band as stop gap when he lost a spring. So off to the hardware store I will go to find a couple of comparable backup springs.
- All in all, I am very please with Rekluse customer support. I probably spent about 30-45 minutes talking with Patrick about my installation concerns and how the z-start clutch works. He was very thoroughly informative and responsive.
- Net, net, it looks like I am ready to go.

Note that I have taken care to accurately communicate everything I have learned. However, I am NO expert on the topic. So if you question any of the information please contact Rekluse as I did and I’m sure they’ll be happy to answer any and all of your questions… and then some.

PS. I’ll report back on my first real ride experience.

GeorgiaBoy

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • John_Lorenz

Posted June 15, 2004 - 03:53 AM

#9

I am glad you got it working.

I was the one who said stated about the plates. I was assuming by the way I read you post that you placed a Rekluse plate directly on top of the last friction plate between the rekluse pressure plate and first OEM Friction. This is stated not to do in the instructs at the end of Step 7
Warning: Before finishing the install the top most part of clutch pack must be a friction disk.

:thumbsup: sorry for the confusion

  • OC768

Posted June 15, 2004 - 08:40 PM

#10

glad to hear you're rolling again :thumbsup:

just a sidenote on the springs: I ordered some spares from them as I didn't really want to tinker with a known good setup. I paid the 10$ and was on my way, came in the next AM to find the airborne express package sitting on my desk - not bad for 10$..I beleive it's just to help them cover shipping. Either way, it was quicker then I was going to find them :awww:

of course, once you get spares - the one you have never flies off again so you're golden anyways :lol:

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted June 30, 2004 - 04:30 PM

#11

Hello all,

I’m back with a smile ear-to-ear to report on my first ride with the z-start. I simple cannot praise the Rekluse guys enough for such an innovative and effective product. With the z-start I now consider my 426 a perfect bike, even for the Georgia woods. It has made my riding experience pure joy. Before w/o the z-start, I was constantly fighting with the bike to make sure I did not stall it in the technical woods riding I prefer. However, I was unwilling to give up the brute force and hard hit of the 426. Now I can have my cake and eat it to.

Basically my first ride was in sloppy mud which has proven to be a big challenge in the past due to short legs (5’7”) and the steep, rutted out, slimy, rugged red clay terrain in North Georgia. Normally, I would have dropped and stalled the bike a few times, but thanks to the z-start I didn’t do either…no, not even once! I simply putted over the tuff stuff and blasted away once I was in the clear. Case in point…on one steep and slippery hill, I had slipped too far back on the bike and was loosing control. As a result, I simple stopped (bike still running and in gear) and pulled myself back onto the bike and proceed to slowly creep up the reaming part the hill until I was back in the clear…and this was a hill that 4 wheelers were having a tuff time getting up.

As for my concern about loosing throttle response and not being able to crack the throttle on demand and pop my front wheel over log, rock, root, etc obstacles, I can put that to bed. I am just thrilled to report that throttle response is no different than using the manual clutch…of course I have it setup to engage quickly.

If you are wondering, I am not a Rekluse employee. I’m just one delighted customer!!!

Now for a tech note…

After completing my first ride, as instructed by the install manual, I recalibrated my gap. This required me to add a second Rekluse supplied steel plate. As a result the bike had terrible clutch drag at idle. So much so, I had to use the front break to keep if from drifting away. Obviously I felt this was a problem, so I called Rekluse support. Net, net, the problem was due to a missing instruction in the manual that should have told me to loosen and move the clutch cable bracket forward so it would provide additional room for the spring and allow the clutch actuator arm to fully disengage. As was, the spring was getting in the way of allowing the clutch actuator arm to completely release (move forward). Once I made this correction, the bike now freely rolls when in gear…not as freely as when in neutral, but close. For reference the revision version of installation guide I have is dated 021704.

  • John_Lorenz

Posted July 01, 2004 - 03:19 AM

#12

Totally Awesome
Welcome to the Church of rekluse :thumbsup: Brother Renegade and others should be in soon

And the Converts keep coming

I am going to ask

Have you noticed yet how it has effected your riding style or have you changed a bit to be more agreesive.

I for one the last time I was out (WCTT3 ride) I purposly stayed back in the pack to sweep. I let everyone get as far ahead as possible. Then simply play catch up. One thing I noticed was my coast time went to almost zero as I started to learn how to control the bike under power and simply stabbing the rear brake to set up.

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted July 01, 2004 - 08:51 AM

#13

Too early to tell how it will change my riding style, other than I am 100% more confident in technical stuff. I suppose now that I will not have to fight with the bike trying to start it after an awkward stall position…like on the side of a rutted out root infested hill climb… I will have more energy in reserve to pick up the pace up a bit more.

Will keep you posted though.

GeorgiaBoy

  • renegade

Posted July 01, 2004 - 10:54 AM

#14

I’m back with a smile ear-to-ear to report on my first ride with the z-start. If you are wondering, I am not a Rekluse employee. I’m just one delighted customer!!!




I've lost count of how many times I said the same thing. I get euphoric with joy from riding my z-start equipped bike, and I come off as a rekluse employee with my praise of it.
Isn't the product just amazing? :thumbsup:
Welcome to the cult!

  • OC768

Posted July 01, 2004 - 06:11 PM

#15

Cult it is, I still read any thread in here that says Z-start on it...though probably just easier to search for Ren's last posts :thumbsup:

I have noticed its made me a bit more aggro, now if I could just make it through half the heroics my throttle hand gets me into without berm busting I'd be happy :devil:

  • GeorgiaBoy

Posted July 03, 2004 - 09:24 AM

#16

Finally after looking at Home Depot and Lowes with no luck, I went to Ace Hardware to see if they had a spring that matches the small one I use. After searching through a fairly extensive spring selection, I found one that looked almost identical and had very similar, in not the same extension charteristics. The tray number was #77, item number #540231 and size 3/16 x 1/4 x.026. The cost was $.79. At minimum the spring is good enough as a backup and at $.79 each, a couple in the tool box should provide piece of mind.

Hope this is helpful,

GeorgiaBoy





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