4 speed



206 replies to this topic
  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted June 23, 2002 - 09:36 PM


i've got friends who race 520sx's cross-country and four speeds are not a problem only if your a spode.........


I have been on trails where I wished that I had 7 speeds!
Ever try to ride up a hill dodging trees, ruts and rocks......all without trying to run over your buddy on a HONDA? It gets pretty damn tricky! :D

I think that the 4spd will def benefit the MXer's but be a debtriment to the tight trail riders of the world that like to MX on everyother wkend! :D

I honestly think the WR stuff will be interchangable with the YZ anyway! :D

I find it fishy that they even list 1st gear thru (??) 6th gear ratios.
Why would they even mention 6th gear?
I think the WR will have 6 to compete in the same market as the 520mx market!
elctrc start and 6spd on a trail bike........AWESOME! :D

But I can't wait for a XMAS present. I need a Fathers day present! :D
Just my $.03

SPODE #2.......RHR
SPODE #1.......HICK
ANYMORE spodes out there????? :)

  • TORCH

Posted June 23, 2002 - 11:14 AM


hey isnt timmy ferrys bike a 4 speed
i recall reading that somewhere.
anyhow the last time i looked <last week at budds>his bike was the baddest mx thumper
out there!

  • yznvegas

Posted June 23, 2002 - 02:28 PM


It's a 3 speed.

  • DethWshBkr

Posted June 23, 2002 - 05:18 PM


I posted on the CR450 page about the 4 speed "problem".

As a 4 speed motorcycle owner, I'll safely say, if you need a 5 speed (desert racers excluded), you should be on ESPN, racing with Pastrana and Stewart, not riding the local track. I'm sorry, I do not buy it, that anyone needs a 5 speed for motocross racing. Ferry doesn't need it, heck, he only uses 3 speeds, and I guarantee he is alot faster than anyone here claiming they need a 5 speed.

The ONLY time I have ever used 4th gear, hard, was in the desert in So.Cal. I know people have flamed me before and told me I don't know what I'm talking about, but my 4 speed bike will go just as fast as a 5 speed, (WELL over 60 mph). I'm sorry, I just don't buy it that people need 5 speeds.
Like I said, if you go to a track, and are in 4th gear, wide open, on the rev-limitter, then I will stand corrected, but you better have a video proving it, becuase I won't believe you.

The 4 speed tranny is fantastic. MUCH less shifting, second and third work for EVERYTHING, from slow stuff to so fast you crap your pants.
I didn't think I'd like the 4 speed in my 520. I asked right off the bat when I bought it how much it would cost to put the 6 speed in.
After 1 ride, I found out second pulled as low as first, and as high as third on my KX250. Third pulled like second, and as high as 4th, and 4th gear was just non-obtainable.

Like I said, desert-racers, sure, as I wanted a 5th gear, but I wasn't losing any time to my dad's 426, which is obviously a 5 speed. I just wanted to back the revs down.
You send a video, with you going over something on your 426 in fourth, on the rev limitter, and I will not say another word.
:)

The 4 speed overall, rocks, trust me!

  • Hick

Posted June 23, 2002 - 08:01 PM


Originally posted by DethWshBkr:
The 4 speed tranny is fantastic. MUCH less shifting, second and third work for EVERYTHING, from slow stuff to so fast you crap your pants.
I didn't think I'd like the 4 speed in my 520.


I don’t know why I bother, but...

Less shifting????

Death Wish, if you put the MXC fifth and sixth gears in your SX (RFS SX 1st thru 4th are same as MXC), are you saying this would somehow cause you to shift more often?

All other motocrossers:

Read this entire post again, but whenever you see the words: “Tim Ferry’s YZ is a 3 speed,” substitute the words, “Ty Davis’ YZ is a five speed.”

Thank you.

[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: Hick ]

  • mxaddict

Posted June 23, 2002 - 08:12 PM


Originally posted by DethWshBkr:

You send a video, with you going over something on your 426 in fourth, on the rev limitter, and I will not say another word.


How about a CRF450? I'll be glad to show you - me hitting our local 120'long 30' high stepup absolutely pinned in fourth, which 250 smokers have to hit in 5th to clear. Just because you don't use it all don't think others don't, ask Motoman, he jumps it too.

--------------------------

I'm with Hick on this one (did I actually say that? lol). Here's my previously posted opinion:

"I am on the record as stating that I think the 4 speed is not a good decision on Yamaha's part, as it alienates too many riders who don't want all the froo-froo that comes on the WR but ride offroad. The addition of a fifth gear would not necessarily change any of the first 4 ratio's and would not result in more shifting on the mx track. If you don't use fifth now then why would you need to on the new bike? So where is all this extra shifting that having fifth would cause? Leaving it out to save a pound or two is a questionable decision to say the least from a marketing standpoint IMHO.

But for mx, my CRF is a three speed and the new YZF will be too. I never use first and have hit fifth maybe twice...I jump a 120' long 30' high triple stepup in fourth, so it's all second, third and fourth gears. The 4-speed won't affect mx'ers any since you will use 2nd, 3rd and 4th just like now, but it won't require less shifts either(may add some if the new fourth is tall enough that in spots you can now lug 4th you have to shift down to third). It will scare off some offroad riders though."

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: mxaddict ]

  • CraigW

Posted June 24, 2002 - 04:33 AM


Coincidental how the new 450 is advertised as being 1lb less than the CRF. Imagine what you would do to this weight claim if you added back the missing 5th gear set.

Sounds like it could have been the Marketing boys who chopped the 5th gear and not the Engineers or test riders.

I must say that I too am disappointed that the bike is a 4 speed, it will definitely reduce its out the box versaitility. Having said that even the 5speed 2000 426 I owned needed a change to the WR gear ratios to make it rideable in the terrain here in good old Africa. I have no doubt at all that its MX ability is not affected by the 4 speed, but for offroad it is a serious disadvantage in stock form and not everyone wants to pull a brand new motor apart to fit extra gears they will simply go and buy another bike.

At the end of the day, the sales figures will show the correctness of this decision.
My humble opinion/prediction is that more people would buy the bike if it were a 5speed.

  • fastkevin

Posted June 24, 2002 - 04:42 AM


:)

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: fastkevin ]

  • fastkevin

Posted June 24, 2002 - 04:45 AM


Originally posted by mxaddict:

-------------------------

froo-froo

Dude,
I looked for 10 minutes through the specs. on the WR, but saw nothing the mentioned "froo-froo" I then thought that maybe you meant "fro-bro", so I looked for pictures of Emig, and still nothing...

:)

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: fastkevin ]

  • motoman393

Posted June 24, 2002 - 07:09 AM


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DethWshBkr:

You send a video, with you going over something on your 426 in fourth, on the rev limitter, and I will not say another word.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about a CRF450? I'll be glad to show you - me hitting our local 120'long 30' high stepup absolutely pinned in fourth, which 250 smokers have to hit in 5th to clear. Just because you don't use it all don't think others don't, ask Motoman, he jumps it too.

--------------------------


Next time I goto Splendora I will shoot a video of me and mxaddict jumping that jump. I am completely tapped out in 4th gear (rev limiter). 250's hit it pinned in 5th and 125's hit it pinned in 6th while seat bumping it.

BTW I could care less about 5th gear. I only use 5th gear when riding wheelies at my friends 350 acre farm. The YZ is a motocross bike and for the most part this is what it is used for. But I can understand the frustration from you desert riders. I just cant wait til my new 450 comes in and I can swing a leg over the beast! Later,

Garrett

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Shawn_Mc

Posted June 24, 2002 - 09:30 PM


This whole 4 verses 5 speed thing is ridiculos! If ya want a 5 speed, buy the WR! WAH WAH its too heavy! No its not ya jackass, its lighter than the 426 in your garage right now! And it has an estart!

If you want a five speed why not buy the WR? Its a hell of a lot easier to take off an electric starter than to split the cases and replace a transmission isnt it?

Also you can bet the four speed wont have transmission failures with the gears being that much wider. 20% wider. Thats a lot. I beleive they address this issue though, with the change in cushion, from spring to rubber pad.

Reading this incessant thread, Ive come to the conclusion that they guys that want a 5 speed are the same guys that dont want to be seen on a FOO-FOO WR, instead of the ultra macho YZ. (Sarcasm). With the same frame, suspension how is it such a crime to ride the WR instead of the YZ, if you must have the 5 speed?
Those of you that "desertize" your YZ's, how much of it is still YZ? The tank is history, as with the case and frame gaurds most of the time, the 19" rear wheel gets changed ususally for an 18". You woulda bought new clamps anyway. Wouldnt it be a hell of a lot quicker to just re-time the cams on your WR and be 80% of the way to the bike you wanted in the first place?

You desert guys are confusing folks. Maybe youve got Yamaha spun out too.

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted June 24, 2002 - 09:45 PM


Shawn..........

I have nothing against the WR.
My friend has a WR and absolutely kicks my butt on a regular basis!and I am no SPODE!
I personally just love my 99' YZ and have had NO complaints about it......Maybe about 5 lbs.
My personal reason is this.......

1. first and foremost I don't want to wait til DEC or Jan
2. I ride both MX and DEZ although 80% DEZ.
3. why should you criticize DEZ guys when you don't even know our needs or Know us personally and our riding styles?

4.<font color=blue><h3>I AM a little different and that is what I like about other dez racers....They aren't cookie cuttered....ALL DIFFERENT.....no big deal!</h3>
There is nothing wrong with being different!
I will ride the 4 speed and give it a shot but if I need to I will gut a WR and get what I need.
No complaints here.
Afterall........No one , including me, has ridden the bike!
Peace my MX brutha! :)

  • DethWshBkr

Posted June 24, 2002 - 10:32 AM


For mxaddict and motoman, I don't want to bash you guys, I've seen your posted pictures and web pages (at least Garrett's!) and I have respect for you and what you do! I won't deny you guys could kick the crap out of me anyday on a track!! :)
I have only jumped about an 80' jump (about the biggest we have here really....) and been told by a few that I have more than enough speed to do anything I want (I've ridden with Casey Clark, if you look at I believe it is {unadilla?}, 125's, he's #141, YZ250F (#114 locally). and there was a kid here (14 yrs old) on a CRF450, he's #10 locally. He told me I've got the speed and smoothness to do whatever I desire (look for him in a few years on ESPN, he's going pro I don't doubt it, he flat out is insane)
I cannot afford a mess up or mistake with work and all though, kinda stinks....
ANYWAY, for you two though, and anyone else to claims to be in 4th on the rev-limitter, did you gear your bike down on the rear sprocket from stock? If so, you're not "really" in 4th, more like a 3rd and a half or so.
Just curious, because again, if you have geared the bike down in the rear (or front) you mess up the factory gearing, which is what the bike was originally geared internally to run with.
I will admit wholeheartedly, if I geared my 520 down to a 50 or 51 rear, I'd be tapped out in 4th at the races, I'll say that in an instant. I'd NEED a 5th gear. Thats why I stayed 14/48 (factory gearing).

Take that into account!!!

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted June 24, 2002 - 12:15 PM


For full blown, outta yer mind desert racing, Id think the 4 speed with its 20% more gear width would be the choice regardless of the need for more gears.

Id be more inclinded to gear the 4 speed to the moon over all than "worry" about the less rugged trans that has 5 speeds.

Dont be misunderstanding me here, Im not flaming anybody. Its just my train of thought

  • therapture

Posted June 24, 2002 - 01:24 PM


Originally posted by motoman393:


Next time I goto Splendora I will shoot a video of me and mxaddict jumping that jump. I am completely tapped out in 4th gear (rev limiter). 250's hit it pinned in 5th and 125's hit it pinned in 6th while seat bumping it.


Garrett



Well day-am! I gots to git mah-self to 'dis spleendora track and chek out 'dis jump! Sounds liek sumtin' I culd be clearin'

I liken mah-self to mxaddicts jump skills ....yeehaw!
:) :D

  • mxaddict

Posted June 24, 2002 - 02:14 PM


Originally posted by DethWshBkr:
did you gear your bike down on the rear sprocket from stock?


Stock 13/50 on mine...

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: mxaddict ]

  • mxaddict

Posted June 24, 2002 - 02:16 PM


Originally posted by therapture:



Well day-am! I gots to git mah-self to 'dis spleendora track and chek out 'dis jump! Sounds liek sumtin' I culd be clearin'

I liken mah-self to mxaddicts jump skills ....yeehaw!
:) :D


Yes, you do need to come down and try it, you'll love it. Just let me know when bro' and we'll do it.

  • mxaddict

Posted June 24, 2002 - 02:23 PM


Originally posted by fastkevin:

Dude,
I looked for 10 minutes through the specs. on the WR, but saw nothing the mentioned "froo-froo" I then thought that maybe you meant "fro-bro", so I looked for pictures of Emig, and still nothing...

:D

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: fastkevin ]


LOL! You are right, froo-froo is such an advanced engineering term that Yamaha doesn't use it since it might confuse the masses... :)

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted June 24, 2002 - 02:31 PM


For full blown, outta yer mind desert racing, Id think the 4 speed with its 20% more gear width would be the choice regardless of the need for more gears.


Four speeds have NOTHING to do with top speed since 4th is near what the old 5 th was!
I am not concerned about the TOP speed nor should anyone else be!
If I want more top speed I merely look at Ty's bike and copy the 16/46 gear ratio or maybe more SANELY go with 15/47.
Top speed is not my concern.
Having another gear in the tight stuff (woods/uphill technical/ river crossings/etc/etc) would be my concern.
A low 1st gear would be awesome.

As far as the ??STURDIER?? (not sure on the exact wording) 4spd tranny......or the inferior 5spd........I don't know what you are talking about.
How could the 5spd be inferior to the 4spd as far as reliability or strength go?
I am sure the gears are made of the EXACT same material in the 4spd compared to the 5spd.
Maybe I am wrong. :)

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted June 24, 2002 - 02:57 PM


Your not wrong about the transmission material being different, but you have to think about the space used.
A syncromesh transmission has all the gears connected all the time. When you shift all your shifting is a dog engagement. Everything moves laterally. If you have space "x" and put 5 gear sets in it, and take the same space "X" and put only 4 gears in it, you need to make up the room. I personally would assume they would increase the width of the gear to compensate for the excess room in the trans left by omitting a gear set.

Now, I could be wrong. They might have put in a plastic spacer and used a different shift drum,like they do with Timmy Ferry's bike. We wont know until cycle or somebody tears the motor apart and shows us. Id love to see an exploded view of the motor, but fat chance of that happening too soon.

My real point is, the power band on these bikes is a mile wide. Its not like ya gotta shift the heck out of the thing to keep it on the pipe. I sometimes only shift twice on a track near my house. 2nd gear lugging and 3rd screaming- occasionally I'll grab 4th to lope over a long table, but its totally makeable in 3rd if you rev it up. I can see off road where on some slick hill climbs and things where you might want a higher gear but not top gear. Most of the time a flywheel weight would work better in these senarios, for a smoother transition and more traction.





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