Too much oil? ...problem?



18 replies to this topic
  • Yak

Posted May 30, 2002 - 07:53 AM

#1

I changed the oil the other night and added 1.7 ML, Which I thought was correct. After I added it, the oil read high on the stick, about 3/4 an inch above the top mark after a short warm up(stick not screwed in). Is this too much? and if so will anything bad happen because of it? When cold the oil reads between the marks, but not when warm. Oil is Yamalube 20-50.

  • clarkster

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:01 AM

#2

not sure about Yams, but on my KLX, if its got too much oil in it, it will rob power(something about crankcase pressure) and it can backflow into the airbox(on the KLX) causing all kinds of problems.just my .02

  • John_Lorenz

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:06 AM

#3

Once you have added the new oil

DId you follow the suggested Yz Manual chk list

Aka
1: Start bike Let run a minute and loosen oil flow tube to validate flow
2: Shutdown check oil level

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

  • yznvegas

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:24 AM

#4

You are supposed to loosen the oil flow bolt before you start it genius. If you run the engine for a minute and the oil is not flowing properly, well in a word, it's a problem.

Ego, why don't you stick to posting goofy pictures of yourself, it seems your more qualified to do that.

  • yznvegas

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:25 AM

#5

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: yznvegas ]

  • John_Lorenz

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:37 AM

#6

Dude
you best back up some ya lil twit, the manual states to slightly loosen the oil tube where it mets the cylander head to vaildate oil flow, then tighten it up.

If your head was nt so far up your ass, and your age = to your IQ, I would have let it pass but stupid is is stupid does

ysnvegas back up man

  • Yak

Posted May 30, 2002 - 08:55 AM

#7

I understand what both of you are saying. I loosen the bolt, kick it started, once old flows out, turn off, tighten back up, proceed with warm up.. yes I did that. But that doesnt have much to do with my initial question. Also, since the frame resevior is more like a holding tank for the oil that will eventually seep into the case, why does it matter at all how much oil is in it?

  • John_Lorenz

Posted May 30, 2002 - 09:09 PM

#8

Yak then there is a bit much oil in it from the left over I assume. Just drain a bit

I asked the question becouse I asked the question, no worries, just wanted to clarify you question was not half asked No Pun There

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted May 30, 2002 - 09:13 PM

#9

Yak if you have too much oil in it, it will tend to puke out the breather tube. AS far as hard damage, you wont have any problems. You could just crack the drain bolt on the frame and let out a couple of ounces if youd like.

Ego YZvegas, yall need to work it out.

YZnvegas, one thing you might not know, Ego is a sarcastic character, and most of his posts are tounge in cheek to say the least. But he's no dummy either.

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  • Mark_Cantrell

Posted May 30, 2002 - 09:36 PM

#10

Yak,

On most bikes, the oil collects in the bottom of the crankcase and is measured there. On this bike, with a 'dry sump' system, the bulk of the oil is stored in the frame, where the dipstick is.

Speaking of dipsticks, I like Ego and yznvegas just fine, except when they act like dipsticks. Guys, get over each other. Ignore each other. This forum is better than that.

There is a scavenge pump in the crankcase that returns oil back to the frame. Then the main oil pump pumps oil from the frame, under pressure, through the crank, cams, tranny, etc. As that oil seeps out of the bearings etc. that it protects, it flows to the bottom of the crankcase and is scavenged back into the frame reservoir.

When you shut off your bike, some oil (guessing 1/4 liter) is left in the crankcase. So the oil level you measure correctly, after running, is calibrated to be correct with that amount not in the reservoir. When you fill the reservoir after changing oil, assuming you drain the crankcase using the drain bolt underneath the shift lever and not just the frame reservoir, the frame reservoir will have all of the oil in it, not just what is left over after some is in the crankcase. So just after changing oil, it will always read high until you run it. Run it a few minutes, oil will distribute in the crankcase and the frame reservoir and read correctly.

Conversely, if the bike sits a day or two, oil will seep through the check valve in the line from the scavenge pump, draining the frame reservoir and filling the crankcase. Check the oil in that condition and it will read dry. You have to start the bike, run a few minutes to let the scavenge pump get oil back up into the frame reservoir, and then check the oil.

The oil pressure bolt on the top right side of the head is the only way to determine if the oil pump is pumping oil through the engine. This is where a pressure gauge would go, top of engine, if there was one. When you start your bike, in addition to checking the oil, loosen that bolt and verify that oil seeps out. If it doesn't you either don't have enough oil, something is blocked, or the oil pump isn't working.

The bottom line is, always run the engine a minute or two before checking oil. Either to give it a chance to pump oil up from crankcase (after sitting) or to pump oil through engine so some will stay in crankcase (after filling reservoir).

Good luck,
mwc

  • Mark_Cantrell

Posted May 30, 2002 - 09:39 PM

#11

Yak,

Sorry, forgot main point. Does it hurt to overfill. No.

In wet sump systems, the oil level in the crankcase will get high enough for the crankshaft to splash it. This will rob power, foam up the oil (suds), put entrained air in it so it has a lower effective viscosity, etc.

In your bike, the scavenge pump will keep the crankcase oil level low. If the frame reservoir overfills, it will drip/puke out the vent line.

Good luck,
mwc

  • yznvegas

Posted May 30, 2002 - 09:56 PM

#12

egodumbhole wrote: DId you follow the suggested Yz Manual chk list

Aka
1: Start bike Let run a minute and loosen oil flow tube to validate flow


Yznvegas: The manual clearly states to loosen the bolt BEFORE you start the engine. So there, it's backed up, deal with it.

  • Fireballsocal

Posted May 30, 2002 - 10:04 AM

#13

I was kind of hoping Ego and yzvegas would continue bickering. It puts a smile on my face to read the insults that these two can come up with. Keep it up fellas!
Sorry vegas but I've got 20 on Ego that says he comes out on top. Any takers?

  • yznvegas

Posted May 30, 2002 - 10:10 AM

#14

egodumbhole wrote: If your head was nt so far up your ass, and your age = to your IQ, I would have let it pass but stupid is is stupid does

Yznvegas: So does that mean your apparent lack of understanding of the english language make you smart? If so, I'd rather be dumb.

  • racemile

Posted May 30, 2002 - 10:13 AM

#15

ego, yzn,

Ego, Love your posts, They keep me crackin' up. Don't ever stop. Yzn, Let it go, Is this the side of you you really want to show off? Ignore him if he drives you this crazy.

Race

  • sirthumpalot

Posted May 30, 2002 - 11:14 AM

#16

Actually the vent line from the oil tank goes back to the valve cover. The only vent hose to the outside is from the valve cover, so if you over fill the oil then I don't see any way for it to get out unless it gets sucked out the crankcase vent (the vent on top of the valve cover) somehow. It's got to be pretty full for that to happen.

That said, I don't think a few ounces extra will hurt anything but 1.7L is technically too much. I believe that it states 1.5L for just a change, 1.6L for filter change too. I believe that 1.7L is the total capacity (going by the '01 manual). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the book in front of me.

  • Hick

Posted May 30, 2002 - 11:36 AM

#17

I agree as to the entertainment value of the Ego-Vegas feud, but it is tending to hijack every new thread. Point being that soon the novelty will wear off. But right now I'm enjoying it. So far I think Vegas' rhetoric is at least a match for Ego.

Yak,

Too bad your thread got sidetracked, but look at it this way, as long as Ego and Vegas keep at it your topic will stay at the top :)

As for your question, Mark C. gave a very thorough and IMO accurate answer.

I’ve owned two 426s, probably put 300+ hours between them, and I quit checking the oil altogether after awhile. So for me the dipstick serves no purpose. I change every few rides, and always add 1.7 L. I figure if it is leaking or using enough oil to make a difference I shouldn’t need a dipstick to tell me about it.

Hope this helps!!

  • Hick

Posted May 30, 2002 - 11:46 AM

#18

Originally posted by sirthumpalot:
Actually the vent line from the oil tank goes back to the valve cover. The only vent hose to the outside is from the valve cover, so if you over fill the oil then I don't see any way for it to get out unless it gets sucked out the crankcase vent (the vent on top of the valve cover) somehow. It's got to be pretty full for that to happen.

That said, I don't think a few ounces extra will hurt anything but 1.7L is technically too much. I believe that it states 1.5L for just a change, 1.6L for filter change too. I believe that 1.7L is the total capacity (going by the '01 manual). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the book in front of me.


I thought the manual states 1.7 L w/ a filter change, but also says this is total oil capacity.
I could be wrong, it has been a few years since I read that part and I don’t have a manual w/ me, but I’ve always just added 1.7 L and ignored the dipstick…

The only difference between total capacity and what comes out w/ a filter change would be what is left in the delivery pipe from res to pump. Doesn’t seem like that could amount to 100 ml, but maybe it does. I used to dutifully drain this pipe out w/ every change but that got old in a hurry.

As for the “overfill and blow it out the breather,” I haven’t ever seen this, but what I think could happen is, if a relatively large flow of oil is coming down the res breather into the head cover and onto a hot valve train, you would likely then have more oil getting vaporized/slung out of the breather and onto the ground.

  • sirthumpalot

Posted May 30, 2002 - 02:23 PM

#19

OK I've got the manual now. I think there may be a L/qt mixup. Here's the specs:

Total capacity: 1.7L (1.8qt)
Periodic change: 1.5L (1.59qt)
W/filter change: 1.6L (1.69qt)

Personally when I change it (periodic change) I just drain it all and add 1.5L, but it's always a tad on the high side when I check it. Maybe the markings on the oil bottles aren't very accurate. Anyway, like you Hick I've stopped checking it because it gets changed so often. :)





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