response from wilderness people



18 replies to this topic
  • Mitch_R

Posted April 22, 2002 - 06:27 AM

#1

Here is a response from the exec director of the wilderness committee responding to my letter. See what you think and write him with your opinion. Keep it civil, we want them to change their policies and respect our views...
"Hey Mitch,

Well, you are wrong on must about every count. The public supports us (ever seen a public opinion poll to the contrary???), and the public IS informed...and still overwhelmingly supports wilderness--in fact they support wilderness BECAUSE they understand it, and finally, the majority of Californian's enjoy our public lands to hike, fish, swim, and enjoy the peace and quiet of the great outdoors. Dirt bike users, 4x4 riders, and snowmobiles ARE the minority.

I'm sure that, like me, you are so convinced you are right, you'll not be bothered by anything I say, not to mention the facts. So let's just leave it at that, OK?"

Paul

This is what I wrote to them....

"It is truly sickening at what you are trying to accomplish. Lock Millions of Californians out of OUR land. If the public were truly informed, as to what it meant to have something designated a wilderness area I think that you would lose alot of your support. A wilderness designation is literally a locked gate on OUR land. No one but the privileged few will have access to OUR land. What percentage of the population do you think will actually go out and be able to enjoy a wilderness area? My guess is less than one percent. I hope that all your hard work goes for naught or maybe just maybe you can come to some middle ground, I doubt it, because most of you are trying to force the will of a few on the masses.
Mitch Riggin...."


Paul Spitler
Executive Director
California Wilderness Coalition
2655 Portage Bay East, Suite 5
Davis, CA 95616
(530)-758-0380
fax (530)-758-0382
paul@calwild.org


"Mitch, thanks for your opinion. But I don't understand how a pair of good hiking shoes is only available to "the privileged few." Everyone is allowed in wilderness. Everyone. Even wheelchairs are allowed in wilderness. Who is this privileged few? It's your land, and if it's designated as wilderness you can still hunt it, fish it, canoe, backpack, camp, mine existing claims, graze existing cattle or sheep allotments, maintain trails, even cut some timber to reduce fuel loads if that is required. You just have to park at the trailhead and hike when you want to enjoy a wilderness area. And the vast majority of the population is able to go on a hike. So who is locked out??

All you have to do is park and walk around the gate.

Only 2 percent of the lower 48 is protected as wilderness. . Even California with all its wilderness only 14 percent of the state is protected as wilderness -- and most Californians want more wilderness protected. These lands belong to all Americans. If you disagree you should definitely tell your legislators, that's democracy, that's how we find a compromise."

Best regards

Keith

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99'WR400 C vet class "think big live large"
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Posts: 21 | From: Pleasant Hill CA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
whoyaChrisH
ThumperTalk Member
Member # 3129

posted April 21, 2002 06:38 PM                   
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Most of their supporters dont even "hike, swim, or fish," But when you ask them if "public lands" should be protected? they say yes. Why? because it sounds good!! Every one wants the lands protected. For me personally it goes deeper than this, who is protecting the land? Thats right the government, and when the government controls the land, they control the people. Can you say Communism, Socialism? I was 35 years old before I even began to think about these things, and to be honest with you it down right scares me. For our younger people who may want to learn more Look up Communism, socialism, and republic in the dictionary and you can make your own decision. for the rest of you, thanks for letting me vent P.S most of their supporters dont even understand the government control part of this. Thanks mitch.

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: whoyaChrisH ]

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: whoyaChrisH ]

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Chris
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Posts: 189 | From: Lompoc C.A | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
YZ400Court
ThumperTalk Member
Member # 1509

posted April 21, 2002 09:26 PM                   
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I really struggle with this subject. The land is controlled by the government, but the government is elected by the people. The enviromentalists dedicate themselves whole hearted to the cause. They spend all of their time lobbying and fundraising to get their agenda passed by the government. Meanwhile we spend all our time and money buying cool new parts, and riding every chance we get. I have asked many people (not the dirtbike crowd) their opinions on wilderness areas, and they ALL support the idea. Why, because it seems right to them. It is a very one sided issue. The blue ribbon coalition can only do so much against seemingly unsirpassable odds. The environmentalists are very well funded, very motivated, very articulate (and can probablly spell). All the letter writing in the world will not change a Democratic legislatures mind in California. The only way to stop it is VOTE. Face it, the Democrats rule California. It would take an act of god to turn it Republican, and as long as the Democrats rule, we lose. Meanwhile our best defence is the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Donate if you can, they are our voice.

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Pretend it's flat and give it the gas.
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Posts: 569 | From: Anthem, AZ, USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mitch R
ThumperTalk Member
Member # 5867

posted April 21, 2002 10:06 PM                      
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Here are the web sites where you can make a difference, if you're not a member join, if you are, send them an extra ten bucks.

Blue ribbon coalitions web site is www.sharetrails.org
CORVA's is www.corva.com
and the ama's is http://capwiz.com/am.../amacycle/home/


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99'WR400 C vet class "think big live large"
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Posts: 21 | From: Pleasant Hill CA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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  • gearbri

Posted April 22, 2002 - 07:28 AM

#2

The sad thing is that one of the main reasons the land issues arise is misuse and abuse by a select few. We need to make sure that when someone abuses land ie... litter, dumping and tearing up grassed areas, that we pick up the slack so that the land isn't closed for that reason. Meaning pick up after them AND ourselves. Many times I pack out extra trash I've found from the abusers. To all those beer guzzling littering fools out there..."you can rest assured, its probably your fault this land is closed to off-roading".

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 22, 2002 - 07:39 AM

#3

Them Bastards

The Dirty Rotten bastards
:)

  • Mitch_R

Posted April 22, 2002 - 07:58 AM

#4

Yeah it's true that a few bad apples can ruin it for all of us, which really sucks. But we can make a difference, when you pass people on horses,shut off your engine and say hi, same goes for hikers,don't go blazin by. Wait till you get around the corner. Everyone likes to ride at their limit, but you have to know when the appropriate time is. Like I keep saying, join the ama the blue ribbon coalition and here in Ca join CORVA and join your local ama club, every little bit helps :)

  • gearbri

Posted April 22, 2002 - 08:16 AM

#5

now a new member and donater of blue ribbon as well!

  • Mitch_R

Posted April 22, 2002 - 08:21 AM

#6

Right on Gear,as they say " a journey of a thousand miles begins with starting your bike" or something like that... :)

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted April 22, 2002 - 09:40 PM

#7

Are these "people??" for real?
Do they not reallize that they are actually fighting themselves and don't EVEN know it!

I am very defensive when it comes to this subject. I grew up near West Yellowstone Mt and I am sure most of you are at least somewhat familiar or at least have caught a clip in a newspaper about what is going on there.

1. First they kick out the snomobiles or dirtBIKES
x-because they are noisy and tear up the ground
2. Then the 4wheelers
x-because they tear up the ground and make trails.
3. Then the jeeps
x-because of the emmisions and littering
4. then the mountain bikes
x-because the contribute to the erosion
5. Then the horses are bannished
x-because the horse schmidt is "unnatural"
x-because they contribute to erosion
6. Then finally ........these same bastards that are fighting to get "US" out, cannot even go into THEIR forest ""HIKERS""
x-because human contact with the forest and animals are UNNATURAL..... :)

Are these <font color=red><h2>DUMMIES</h2>SO ignorant and BLIND that they cannot even see this or are they just so arrogant that they think that THEY will NOT be affected!???? :D

Not that I promote logging either, but These same ppl are probably the same ones that spiked the trees to save a life of a TREE to take the life of a fellow HUMAN BEING!!!??? :D

:D HYPOCRITS :D
I am going to go out side and smash something that resembles a political activist! :D

  • Mark_UK

Posted April 23, 2002 - 12:11 AM

#8

you guys should try riding in the UK
and now it looks likely that before any off road event can take place they will need to get planning permission from local govenment [ they would need to apply for this prior to each event ]

Lots of green lanes (of which we have few) are being closed due to errosion.

One such green lane i ride runs thro some woodland area, the ramblers and hikers(so called nature lovers)have teken to cutting down(healthy) trees and laying them across the track to try and stop bikes and 4x4's using them
(mind you ,i kinda like hoping em).
All this achieves is a widening of the track as guys ride round it.

These guys are not about "middle ground" or compremise,
in many cases they are well healed conservative and influental.
i can see that within the next 5 to 10 years off road ridding will become all but illegal in the UK. seems crazy, this is a sport the UK is actually excelling in.
1> Douggie Lampkin (WORLD Indoor and outdoor champion many times over)
2> James Dobb (WORLD champion)
3> Paul Edmondson (Past GNCC champ & Multi WORLD enduro champion)
4> David Knight (2002 WORLD champion ??)

and we will be left with motocross practice tracks (hopefully)
And fewer organized races


this wont be the first sport i have seen destroyed by well organized campaining followed by bad legislation,

a few years ago i was legally and successfully competing in target pistol shooting..
only to see bad legislation rushed through,,,
This involved me (and thousands like me)being forced to hand our LEGALLY, ligitamatly owned and very expensive pistols into the police who then destroyed them.
most recieved little or no compensation.
Had we of refused to comply,, they whould of been forcably taken from us by teams of armed police.
and we would then of been convicted of a criminal offence,, served a prison sentance,, accompanied by a huge fine,, and then been stigmatized as a crazed gun wielding maniac, by the local community.
(no doubt the same people that cut trees down in the local woods to,,,,hmmmmmmm protect the environment)

The reason for this legislation was

''to prevent the nation from gun crime''

bare in mind they didnt take the firearms from criminals,, just law abiding people.

interesingly ,,
violent gun crime in the UK is now at a all time high,,, with a special govenment task force being appointed to address the problem.

the point im making (eventually) is
Bad restrictive laws have and will continue to get passed by polititians who seek to court favour with the majority or what appears to be the majority, [loud well organized minority].

after saying this,,,,, i think i should get a quiete muffler,,,,,lol

:D :)

  • sirthumpalot

Posted April 23, 2002 - 12:48 AM

#9

Can someone point me to the blue ribbon coalition web site? I've heard a few things about this group, they're pro-enthusiast right? If so I'm going to join. Land where I live is disappearing at an alarming rate (mostly to condos and million dollar houses, ggrrrr...) and I've hit an age where I'm ready to get politically involved.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Merfman

Posted April 23, 2002 - 04:17 AM

#10

http://www.sharetrails.org/

Also try

http://www.cohvco.org/

Also, just an opinion... trying to "reason" with the greenies is not an option. They distort truths, make up "facts" and lie with impunity in order to achieve their goal: Lock up everything so that only they, those fit enough to walk, may enjoy only 5% of what's locked up.

I have absolutely nothing against wilderness areas. Wilderness areas should be just that: areas that are untouched/unmolested by man. Trying to turn places that we've been riding for years into wilderness areas/monuments is what frys my a$$.

Stepping off soapbox...

Merf

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted April 23, 2002 - 07:43 AM

#11

This the stuff wars get started over.

Im all for it. Lets start a war. It'll be fun! Damn greenies aint go no guns, and they cry at everything. The whole war oughta only last about 10 minutes! :D

Probably only have to kill about 50 or 60 of'em, make sure the ones we kill are politicians. Those are the a'holes pushing the problems through various congresses.

Lets just cut the head off the snake! :)
Greenies make good fertilizer :D

  • cowboyona426

Posted April 23, 2002 - 05:21 PM

#12

I'm with you guys! I've researched this subject a bit, and have a few things I would like to point out. Thumpin' Rock Hucker was talking about all the bans in Yellowstone. Think about it- deer, elk, buffalo, bears, etc. walk all over that park every day- and NOT just on designated trails! Don't you think that could be harmful to the pretty trees and flowers? Also, on the trails that are already established, wind and rain erosion can be just as harmful as a dirtbike tire, not to mention a deer or elk hoof. Horse schmit is about as natural as it comes, too, as far as I'm concerned. I'm with you, TRH. One thing about the greeenies around here that really gripes me is that they want to ban motorcycles and walk the trails that motorcycle riders maintain and clear each year so motorcycler, bicyclers, greenies, and horseback riders can all use the trails. Almost all the trails around southern Idaho are groomed by the local trail machine (off-road dirt bike) clubs and/or horseback riding clubs. Granted, some people are stupid and tear sh*t up on dirt bikes they shouldn't. In almost 15 years of riding trails around here, I've NEVER seen a forest service official cruising the trails looking for stupid people to do stupid things. Put down the coffee and donuts, get out of the truck, and do something! Nail the people that do screw up so the rest of us can continue to enjoy the trails. Designating areas as wilderness does keep us out of the areas that we have every right to be in. Isn't America supposed to be the home of the free? Then why all the *^%#%&*& restrictions on where we can go?
As you can tell, I'm also adamant about this subject. If I weren't a poor college kid, I'd give Blue Ribbon $100 bucks. Stand up and fight for whats yours! Join the Blue Ribbon coalition! I know I would if I had the $. DO NOT buy anything that donates to the Sierra Club, Wilderness Club, etc. It's about time ORV users (bikes, 4-wheelers, 4x4's, etc) stood up and made as much noise as the greenies!!! I'm with TRH and ShawnMC and everyone else, LETS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS CRAP!!!!

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted April 24, 2002 - 07:26 AM

#13

How scary would 10,000 fourstrokes on the steps of congress look? Better yet, fire'm all up at once, and lets see if they can ignore that!

Nice fuzzy eco sensitive four strokes :)

If we went to methanol, we could call'em GORE strokes! And we could run'em at 15:1 compression ta boot!
:D

  • cowboyona426

Posted April 24, 2002 - 06:32 PM

#14

I'm with you Shawn! I'd like to see the boys in DC try to put any motorcycle bans into effect with all of us staring them in the eyes! Like they say, strength in numbers! Just imagine, the roaring buzz of 10,000 four strokes on the steps of Congress... it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside :) ! Just imagine what kind of trouble could we all cause running around the streets of DC on our strokers :D !!!

  • armourbl

Posted April 25, 2002 - 08:55 AM

#15

Although our bikes aren't street legal, for the most part anyway. Is there a law against pushing them up on the front lawn, starting them and not driving them?

Our sport feeds this economy, we ride responsible, and we are tax payers. Why the hell does know one seem to care.

These punk ass, dumb butts, who have trust funds, have never gone without, only do what they are doing to be a part of something, and nothing better to do but harrass our rights are pissing me off. These are the same pukes who would hide behind the greatness of this country but run from a draft to protect it..

Oh yeah, where I live they are actually Home Associations that won't allow people to fly the American Flag!

ben

[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: armourbl ]

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 25, 2002 - 09:16 PM

#16

Them Bastards :D
Them Dirty Commi Bastards :)
Them Dirty Commi ECO Nazi socialist Bastards :D

[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted April 26, 2002 - 01:13 PM

#17

Ego put down the clip, no target available now.

But as soon as a worthy target becomes available, feel free to get all lathered up and cut'em down like corn in a field.

Nothing but nothing angers me further than people with nothing more to do than to try to cut my recreational time back.
Is my freedom for the pursuit of happiness not a right stated in the constitution?

These A'holes are making me unhappy, where is Johnny "Im gonna sue your white ass" Cocran now? Johnny the Eco groups have lots of money, and you can have it all!

  • thumpsalad

Posted April 26, 2002 - 06:12 PM

#18

Line the greenies up in a line...

I have a Weatherby .300 Magnum that'll cut through more of them when they are all lined up! :)

Ok, ok...I'm not very nice. Good.

  • MikeOK

Posted April 27, 2002 - 04:49 AM

#19

Them cotton pickin bunch of toot-heads heheh...

Seriously... I own some land that I use mainly for riding, and it borders a National Forest. You should see this place, is it great. I don't even have to maintain my own trails. The people spill over from the national forest on their 4 wheelers and build trails all over my place (usually cutting my fence in the process). They have built so many trails on the public land it looks like a MX track in some places. I like it. But I ride. If I didn't ride I would be one of the anti's. They are destroying the place. I have dealt with the forest service people in the past and this place has always been fairly lax on the rules before but they tell me now that they are going to have to close it to bikes soon. This is in Arkansas where every 3rd pickup has a 4 wheeler in the back. They would let us ride anywhere in the past down there, but the abuses that have started the last couple years is going to force these people to close the trails. And even though I ride, in a way I agree. We are cutting our own throats here guys... I'll let you ride at my place anytime though, just don't cut my fence...





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