Wet Sump Conversion



30 replies to this topic
  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 15, 2002 - 03:09 AM

#1

So I see no posts at all in regards to the Wet Sump Convert article in MXA. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmm
Thats seems peculiar to me, Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Conspiracy...... Maybe,
Embarassment.... Probable,
Was it worth Doing....... NOOOOOTTTTTTT! :D

I really kept my mouth shut on the posts that were doing the sump convert, I wanted to see when they started to appear back on dont do it, Gear Box in pieces.

As the Article stated. The bike was designed as it is, changing it unless your a hard core racer and change the oil From The Mag "EVERY RIDING HOUR" Your gonna have problems.... :D

So moral of the story as I state in my earlier threads.

Just becouse a Pro Endorses it or builds it, Dont Make it Worth SH*&&^T.
Let the FIRE FIGHT BEGIN :)

  • MGR_8

Posted April 15, 2002 - 03:46 AM

#2

I wet sumped my 01 426....very happy with it.

MXA made a few incorrect statements...

1st: The oil is replaced thru the ignition side, NOT the clutch side....

2nd: It doen't take twenty minutes to replace the oil... it is actually easier..IMO

As far as reliablity...I am not worried about it. I will change the oil every hour and ride on...oil is cheap in the grand sceme of things! 3.5 lbs doesn't seem like a lot of weight, but it can be felt and it was only $160.00. I just paid $400.00 for the DrD CF airbox....it only saves 2 lbs, but it's weight that is up high on the bike.

Bottom line...if you are a weekend racer like myself..it's worth it...IMO. I practice on Saturday, race on Sunday. The little extra maintenance is not a big deal to ME. If you ride a lot during the week, this might not be for you. It's your choice.


MGR8

  • Hootna

Posted April 15, 2002 - 03:59 AM

#3

I dont think that it is a bad conversion and if the bike can hold 900CC as stated in the article it should be sufficient. I do not like the idea of having to pull the clutch cover off of the bike to fill with oil or the lack of a oil height hole like on the 2 strokes.

Man someone could make some money if they marketed a Wetsump cover with the oil height hole built in.

Also I dont know if it would be possible but could you not add some extra oil volume externally I mean not to the extreme of the stock YZ250F. Man that would be trick a small aluminum oil cooler that holds another 150CC of oil.

Anyway just babbling I think the Wetsump is a trick conversion, but since I dont race and I weigh 230 lbs. I just need to stop eating for couple of weeks, it save weight and be cheaper to my pocket book.

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 15, 2002 - 04:01 AM

#4

Hootna

two words

Atkins Diet

MGR
I have no issues with people that spend money if they got it, but for what cost ?
5 pounds have cost you almost 600 bucks.
Thats 120 bucks a pound for what ?
I will bet your still as fast and did not pick up any speed or track times.
I just do not understand I guess, I get roasted for 42.95 on a spanner tool and people are spending 120 bucks a pound to loose.

Y'all can do what you want but for me I love my Yizzer as she is, I can think of alot more things to do with 600 bucks then shed 5 pounds

Just Playing the devils advocate here and trying to start up some conversation :)

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

  • MGR_8

Posted April 15, 2002 - 05:51 AM

#5

EgoAhole,

You are so right...."I am just as Fast"(very PC), not any faster..., but it sure looks cool. It does feel lighter on the track!.... really it does!

I think it was David Lee Roth that said..."It doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as you look good". I have always liked that saying.

As for $120.00 a pound. That really is pretty cheap if you look at some parts... Yamaha Ti kits...saves 1.5 lbs ~$500.00. Yamaha Mag hubs...saves 1 lb. ~ $1,200.00. DSP CF skid plate...saves what a few ounces ~ $115.00, how about a new exhuast system, SS or Ti will set you back ~ $400+ for a few lbs.

Looking at it from that angle I feel like I got a great deal. Thanks EgoAhole! It's like a buying a car. Do you really care if the dealership screwed you as long as YOU FEEL like you got a good deal. It's perception. Hey my check book is even lighter now! It's a win win. Peace!

MGR8

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 15, 2002 - 06:07 AM

#6

MGR

Cool Glad you understand I was not banging heads, just trying get some stimulas. My favorite is from a "The Boys are Back" and the lyric goes "That Chic she got up and she slapd jonnie in the face, Oh Man we fell all about the Place. If that Chic dont wanna know just forget her"

:) happy trails

Its also like my Bro-inlaw he hunts, the last time he took a Moose it cost him 4500 bucks for 175 punds of Meat You do the math. I would rather go down to me Grocery store and shoot the package with a pellet gun, Total cost 7.25 and one bb

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted April 15, 2002 - 08:23 AM

#7

Ego I hope when you go walkin in the Grocery store you always come out with a kill!

The Atkins diet deal works I can tell ya that. I lost 21 lbs that I just couldnt work off. Jogging lifting weights the whole deal it wouldnt come off. Controlled carbo, wieght will just fall off ya.

  • lawdog

Posted April 15, 2002 - 08:30 AM

#8

EgoAhole,
I also have done the wet sump conversions, and love them as well. My first conversion was done by Pro-Circuit,and they say 1000cc of oil, filled thru the mag cover, and the second kit was done by Dubach racing. Dubach is a much better conversion, and he says 850cc of oil. I am a die hard racer and change my oil every moto,and if dr. D says 850cc of oil is ok, I believe him. After all he knows more about the 426 then any of us. Later Lawdog

  • DaveJ

Posted April 15, 2002 - 09:12 PM

#9

My vote, as many of you know, goes towards making the mod.

I'm most likely no faster because of it, but I'm now a little smarter and wiser, and that leads to many other things well worth the money I spent on the kit.

DaveJ

  • CHris_PArks

Posted April 15, 2002 - 01:44 PM

#10

hell ya the no carbo diet works. since i went to collage i gained tones some weight and most was fat. the no carbo diet combined with work ing out the fat just slids off. i'm sure since i'm only 22 it works better for me.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Denny47

Posted April 15, 2002 - 01:48 PM

#11

Simple anser on the conversion. Got the dough, do it. If not, get a new job that pays.

  • G-Man

Posted April 15, 2002 - 05:06 PM

#12

I question the mod myself, I like to offroad ocassionally when I'm not racing, not to mention on practice days I like to do 3, 50-60 min motos to build up endurance. For these two reasons the kit makes no sense for ME.

If your a hard-core MX racer only in the Expert/Pro ranks then I can see throwing large sums of cash to save a few pounds. But if your an average weekend racer, then the only benefit would be the trickness factor. I've seen plenty of guys in my time with the trickest bikes in the pits, only to watch them ride like a beginner. Makes me shake my head and wonder why they don't concentrate more on riding then looking good.

Just my .02cents

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 16, 2002 - 03:54 AM

#13

G-Man
A voice of reason :D
This was my point on the post, I see alot of that myself. Its called keeping up with the Jones's,

I have no judgement on those that want to do the conversion (As Stated)Thats great, this is a very healthy Thread on WHY SHOULD I DO THE CONVERT.

I think that we can argue both sides and agree that its a choice to do it if the proper info is there and the FACTS.

FACTS
1: Bike was not designed this way
2: No Horspower Gain
3: Weight Loss (3lbs gone)
4: Reliablity is Lowered
5: Maintanence is Raised
6: Oil Cooling is diminished
7: Oil Capacity is Diminished
8: Oil Life is lost

To boot, I would love to see some Oil experts respond to what happens to oil when it reaches it peak performance or life span or over heats and what that does to the components its supposed to protect.

One Last Point, This mod is a good mod if:
1: You have the bucks to rebuild your motor at will
2: You Race perfesionally and can do 1:
3: Have more money then you can spend :)

I just do not think the mod is for the masses is my point.

  • mike_dean

Posted April 16, 2002 - 04:10 AM

#14

For once I agree with MXA, it costs much more to design and build a dry sump motor, why would Yamaha do that, highly stressed NASCAR engines are dry sump as are most stressed race engines, more and cooler oil is always better. just my thoughts, I like dependability. mike

  • MGR_8

Posted April 16, 2002 - 05:14 AM

#15

I was into OffShore Racing Boats a few years back...Campion Chase 910 w/ twin 454's..wife made me choose..boat,motorcycle or her..I chose motocycle and wife. Racing motocross seems to be just an expensive and boats. Anyway...

Mike Dean, you made a comment on dry sumping an engine...it is done to keep oil out of the crank...you lose hp when the cranks pass thru the oil bath and the oil foams. Mercury Marine makes a Dry Sump #6 drive... for those very reasons.

Watch, next years 450 will be wet sumped just like Hondas...seperate clutch oil/engine oil.

Lastly, the great thing about being an adult and making money is you have the choice to do with your money as you like.

EgoAhole:

FACTS
1: Bike was not designed this way (it will be next year)
2: No Horspower Gain (so you need more...right!)
3: Weight Loss (3lbs gone) (can be felt)
4: Reliablity is Lowered (I question that one)
5: Maintanence is Raised (not a big deal to me..I enjoy the time away from the wife)
6: Oil Cooling is diminished (agreed)
7: Oil Capacity is Diminished (that must have been a tough one to come up with)
8: Oil Life is lost (oil is cheap)

One Last Point, This mod is a good mod if:
1: You have the bucks to rebuild your motor at will (you have to pay to play)
2: You Race perfesionally and can do 1: (nope, just a top five +30C rider, top 10 250C)
3: Have more money then you can spend (see comment on #1)

This is so much fun! I just love controversy! It makes for a interesting day. Your up EggoAhole!

Can't wait to ride for an hour Friday and change oil...go ride another hour, change oil, ride another hour change oil, etc. Life is good!

MGR8

  • MXOldtimer

Posted April 16, 2002 - 06:07 AM

#16

Originally posted by EgoAhole:
G-Man
>>>A voice of reason :D
This was my point on the post, I see alot of that myself. Its called keeping up with the Jones's,

I feel it's a MX "racers" item looking for an edge, it isn't and should not be for the weekend trail rider

FACTS
>>>1: Bike was not designed this way
A. WR's were designed for off road but that doesn't stop 95% of their owners trying to turn them into YZ's

>>>2: No Horspower Gain
B. This weight savings will give you a better power to weight ratio change, add that with other weight savings and it will really add up.

>>>3: Weight Loss (3lbs gone)
C.True

>>>4: Reliablity is Lowered
D. Not true if the oil is kept fresh.

>>>5: Maintanence is Raised
C. True, but if your racing you can't have enough maintance. again this isn't a mod for people that trail ride on weekends, then park they're bike and forget about it till next weekend.

>>>6: Oil Cooling is diminished
D. There is some cooling through the lines and it doesn't sit in the tank long before returning, this is something that would be interesting to know.

>>>7: Oil Capacity is Diminished
E. That's one point of the change.

>>>8: Oil Life is lost
F. I you race 2 moto's on Sunday your looking at 2 practises, & 4 moto's, that adds up to around 80 to 100 min. I have faith my oil will last 100 min. but I would still change ? between moto's.

>>>One Last Point, This mod is a good mod if:
1: You have the bucks to rebuild your motor at will
A. Not really if you keep the oil fresh, there might even be a benifit here, if a person is forced to change oil after every race the engine just might have a longer life span compared to someone that'll put the oil change off till next weekend,,,"OOHH IT'LL BE OK, I ONLY RODE IT A LITTLE, I THINK? LAST WEEKEND WITH THE OLD OIL"

>>>2: You Race perfesionally and can do 1:
B. I feel a weekender can benifit as well, less weight less fatique and better handling by lowering the weight make a better race bike.

>>>3: Have more money then you can spend :)
C. If you know how to read your manuel you can perform the change,,, and I see alot of seat/graphic kits that cost more, and almost every bike in the pits have some type of aftermarket seat/graphics kit,,,that's keeping up with the Jones. Besides the Dubachs need money too.

>>>I just do not think the mod is for the masses is my point.


100% True,,,It wasn't intended to be.A lot of YZF owners don't or can't even start they're bikes but that's another topic.
This whole attempt was to start a flame. You're trying to bad mouth the people that do the change by trying to say they want to keep up with the Jones, when I feel the one doing the change are looking for another 10th on a sec. and trying to improve there racing (pro or weekender). IF you've talked to them they let you know in advance the change "ISN'T" for Trail riders,Long Off road races or Desert racing, and should be used for MX purposes,,,like the "YZ" was intended.

Im going to ordering the kit myself, when I get my last project out of the way.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: MXOldtimer ]

  • lawdog

Posted April 16, 2002 - 07:11 AM

#17

EgoAhole, How did you come up with your facts? Arn't facts a proven point,based on some results? Fact: 1-horespower is gained by the mod, merely by weight loss. Samebike/same HP the one that weighs less is faster...correct.
2-reliability lowered--what was that based on? 3-raised maitnence... your right now I have to change the oil in my bike,loosen the drain plug, tighten the drain plug. then there is the three bolts for a filter, wow I'm exhausted. Later Lawdog

  • John_Lorenz

Posted April 16, 2002 - 09:22 PM

#18

To all
My facts are based solely on the Article in MXA.

I have looked at DrD's Site he has no info on his own product for this.

I did not do tthis to start a flame, I did to just start a healthy conversation on a MOD that May or may not be a good thing for some people.

Read Through my Responces very carefully, I am very carefull to point out that I am ok if you want to do this, I am ok if you have the Moola, I think its a good MOD, For Me NO.

What I do not understand is TT touts themselvs as being informative, So ok Inform look at both sides, argue the points thats cool.

But I never stated in any of my responces that you a pack of blithering Bone Heads for doing the MOD. On the Contrary I stated:

"One Last Point, This mod is a good mod if:
1: You have the bucks to rebuild your motor at will
2: You Race perfesionally and can do 1:
3: Have more money then you can spend

I just do not think the mod is for the masses is my point.


So whos facts are not right. I have no scientific facts on the MOD, I think No one does. If this MOD had any Better horsepower improvement, Better Oil Cooling Capabilities, Better Engine Parts Protection

Dont you think Tis would be published in a Marketing Campain Answer YES
But it dosnt so thats the fact :)

NEXT

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

Plus Weezer Says This about me for helping

Weezer # 1
ThumperTalk Member
Member # 6665
posted April 16, 2002 09:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.......you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------

Eric
EK Motorsports
Ft Worth,TX

'01 YZ426F(sold)
'01 YZ250F

Tug bars and bottom clamp
Nurse Z cold start lever
DMD Pipe
Oversized rotors and wheels
Dunlap 876s


[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

  • DaveJ

Posted April 16, 2002 - 08:20 PM

#19

All the other stuff aside, you guys need to consider why you change oil on a bike in the first place.

In nearly all cases, it's because of contamination. In other words, what you're draining out is not BAD oil, but DIRTY oil.

Obviously this engine is not running hotter with less oil, but it is producing the same amount of contamination. Therefore, you get a faster and higher ratio when you use less oil.

In theory, if you could measure oil contamination, and held to a standard, you would use the same amount of oil on a bike with and without the conversion.

Additionally, the cleaner the oil, the less wear on the engine. If your change frequency increases, you have less contamination to run time. Which means that a converted bike (say used for racing) with frequent oil changes could actually have less wear-and-tear occurring internally than the weekend trail rider, ran hour for hour, with the full lot of oil.

DaveJ

  • mike_dean

Posted April 17, 2002 - 01:01 AM

#20

MGR 8, a wet sump auto engines crank does not run in the crankcase oil unless the oil is sloshed around the windage trays and baffles that are there to keep it from touching the crank and to keep the oil on the pick up tube. Dry sumping keeps a consistant oil flow to the brgs by providing an oil reservoir with cooler non- foamed oil. The scavenger pump picks up the oil in the crankcase and keeps the reservoir full, but even if it occasionally picks up air the reservoir still has oil to supply the pump. The scavenger pump can pick up air when the bike is on the grd, or at a radical angle (whip). I'm sure the bike can handle this for a while but being a mechanic a wet sump is not worth it for me. And yes it does improve HP.

Dave J, more oil does make a cooler running engine, oil is not only a lubricant but also cools or takes away heat as it is passed through the engine.

Just some things to think about when doing this mod., I wouldn't say it is not a mod. that some racers could use, but it is definitely not for the average guy.

mike

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: mike dean ]

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: mike dean ]





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