R you ready for an all New 230f?

[The Plvis]

Tho i love the 230f, but i think it's time for Change. I love change even if its not for the better. We got a new president, why can't we get an all new 230f? Something with inverted forks or XR250R forks, Sub-frame disconnect, aluminum dog bone, fuel injection, rear disk brake, plugs for a oil cooler, for an option for over the counter oil cooler, and a 55" wheel base. Ok I maybe I'm not asking for an all new 230f but one that meets the modern times.

 

Give it 233cc and call it a 240. 

 

I was at Malcolm Smith's in Riverside California about a week ago. I never see the 230f on the show room floor. Also i never see it on the show room floor at Chaparral's in San Bernardino. As we know Chaparral is most likely the largest motor cycle store in the world. I think the 230f has been in production for 16 years now. So it's about time for a make over wouldn't you guys think? I'm not saying we shouldn't love the 230f because it still has practical use. Something new doesn't mean we will forget something older.

 

Remember we still love the XR200, XR250R and the XR400 tho they're out of production. There's only so much life in a man before he kicks the bucket, so my concept is to see something new as often as possible before i push up daisies....And no I'm not talking about Daisy Dukes, but that can be nice too lol. Just don't get caught by the ball N' chain lol. 

 

BOYS IT'S TIME TO GET A NEw Hat, new boots and straw to go along with it, and it should be named XR240F 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUwWDgwMA==/z/XYEAAOSwdzVXp0Ap/$_80.JPG

Edited January 23, 2017 by The Plvis

[VortecCPI]

All I want is a lighter version of what I have now.  Unfortunately that means higher cost.

 

What amazes me about the "warmed over XR200" is that we STILL chose it, even though some of us can buy any bike we want.

 

I actually do not agree on the longer wheelbase, though it would be much better for fast long open work.

 

A close-to-200-pound CRF230F...  That would be awesome...

Edited January 22, 2017 by VortecCPI

[The Plvis]

All I want is a lighter version of what I have now.  Unfortunately that means higher cost.

 

What amazes me about the "warmed over XR200" is that we STILL chose it, even though some of us can buy any bike we want.

 

I actually do not agree on the longer wheelbase, though it would be much better for fast long open work.

 

A close-to-200-pound CRF230F...  That would be awesome...

 

Mr.P you know P stands for POWER? 

 

I see your point, and agree. But just a tad bit longer wheel base would work better for us Californians, and wouldn't compromise the Hicks N' the Sticks lol. Best of both worlds theme you know? I'm dual sporting, and feel 55" wheel base would give us the Late XR250R's wheel base number. Do you really feel the XR250R wheel base gives up anything to the 230F in the woods? Remember the KTM freeRide also has a 55" wheel base, and it turns and burns in the woods.

Edited January 22, 2017 by The Plvis

[VortecCPI]

Mr.P you know P stands for POWER? 

 

I see your point, and agree. But just a tad bit longer wheel base would work better for us Californians, and wouldn't compromise the Hicks N' the Sticks lol. Both of both worlds theme you know? I'm dual sporting, and feel 55" wheel base would give us the Late XR250R's wheel base number. Do you really feel the XR250R wheel base gives up anything to the 230F in the woods? Remember the KTM freeRide also has a 55" wheel base, and it turns and burns in the woods.

 

In the really slow short tight stuff the XR250 really does give it up to the CRF230.  The longer wheelbase, higher CG, taller chassis, and greater weight are very easily felt.  And that beefy two-valve low-speed torque just gets it done.

 

We had two CRF230s and two late-model XR250s in the stable for quite some time.  The CRF230s just eat up the XR250s in the really slow short tight stuff.  However...  Open things up just a little bit and the XR250 starts working really well.  The engine and chassis are great when you have more space and the terrain is rougher.  I LOVE the late-model XR250 in that context.  I HATE the CRF230 in that context.

 

The CRF230 is just too low and too short when things get fast and rough.

 

The right bike for the right context...  One of each!  And, of course, and XR600.  I just LOVE those things!

[The Plvis]

In the really slow short tight stuff the XR250 really does give it up to the CRF230.  The longer wheelbase, higher CG, taller chassis, and greater weight are very easily felt.  And that beefy two-valve low-speed torque just gets it done.

 

We had two CRF230s and two late-model XR250s in the stable for quite some time.  The CRF230s just eat up the XR250s in the really slow short tight stuff.  However...  Open things up just a little bit and the XR250 starts working really well.  The engine and chassis are great when you have more space and the terrain is rougher.  I LOVE the late-model XR250 in that context.  I HATE the CRF230 in that context.

 

The CRF230 is just too low and too short when things get fast and rough.

 

The right bike for the right context...  One of each!  And, of course, and XR600.  I just LOVE those things!

 

Once again i see your point...but do you think you're being fair to say the problem is exclusively coming from the wheel base? You also mentioned it was Top Heavy and the higher CG. Isn't that a part of the issue as well? Also remember the KTM FreeRide; it too has that 55" wheel base and it turns and burns in the woods. I would hardly think it would give up anything to our 230F in the woods?

[VortecCPI]

Once again i see your point...but do you think you're being fair to say the problem is exclusively coming from the wheel base? You also mentioned it was Top Heavy and the higher CG. Isn't that a part of the issue as well? Also remember the KTM FreeRide; it too has that 55" wheel base and it turns and burns in the woods. I would hardly think it would give up anything to our 230F in the woods?

 

I am solely speaking of just the CRF230 and XR250 as you asked.  I can not comment on anything else.

 

I am being very fair in this context.  My buddy actually ditched his late-model XR250 for a CRF230 because it wore him out where we ride.  When he first rode mine he was NOT impressed but after he kept taking beatings from me he later swapped.  He likes the small low chassis and torquey engine.

 

He said he would never have guessed it could work so well after riding mine.  By almost all measures the CRF230 is inferior to the late-model XR250.  Again I am only speaking in the context of slow short tight riding where average speeds may be 10-15 MPH.  Riding a late-model XR250 around at 10-15 MPH is a crime.

 

I love both of these bikes.

Edited January 22, 2017 by VortecCPI

[The Plvis]

I am solely speaking of just the CRF230 and XR250 as you asked.  I can not comment on anything else.

 

I am being very fair in this context.  My buddy actually ditched his late-model XR250 for a CRF230 because it wore him out where we ride.  When he first rode mine he was NOT impressed but after he kept taking beatings from me he later swapped.  He likes the small low chassis and torquey engine.

 

He said he would never have guessed it could work so well after riding mine.  By almost all measures the CRF230 is inferior to the late-model XR250.  Again I am only speaking in the context of slow short tight riding where average speeds may be 10-15 MPH.

 

I love both of these bikes.

 

You know me, and I'm sure you know my first choice between the XR250R and 230F would be the CRF. Tho don't get me wrong, l love the late model XR250R too. 

 

If i could only own two bikes, it would be the 230F and the XR250R. If i could get my hands on a KTM350 FreeRide?...i don't believe I'd ride only red. I say this because i want to see a new 230F. Yes Honda making something closer to the FreeRide in measurements. I have a feeling that a 55" wheel base would be perfect for the slow navigation and blast on whoops.

 

There are too many 230F's in production today...so much so that Honda has to change the bike to keep its audience alive. Once Honda decides to change it, i hope they make it to the dimensions of the FreeRide. Like i said, i don't think the 55" wheel base will hurt us. People fear the unknown...didn't we fear Obama because of his color?...but nothing happened. Now we fear Trump as to how his brain works...but I'm sure we all will be fine. Likewise to a 55" wheel base.

Edited January 22, 2017 by The Plvis

[VortecCPI]

I like the FreeRide too but my understanding is that you lose a lot of range with the 2T engine.

 

Off to church buddy...  Have a great day.

[MetricMuscle]

Tho i love the 230f, but i think it's time for Change. I love change even if its not for the better. We got a new president, why can't we get an all new 230f? Something with inverted forks or XR250R forks, Sub-frame disconnect, aluminum dog bone, fuel injection, rear disk brake, plugs for a oil cooler, for an option for over the counter oil cooler, and a 55" wheel base. Ok I maybe I'm not asking for an all new 230f but one that meets the modern times.

 

Give it 233cc and call it a 240. 

 

I was at Malcolm Smith's in Riverside California about a week ago. I never see the 230f on the show room floor. Also i never see it on the show room floor at Chaparral's in San Bernardino. As we know Chaparral is most likely the largest motor cycle store in the world. I think the 230f has been in production for 16 years now. So it's about time for a make over wouldn't you guys think? I'm not saying we shouldn't love the 230f because it still has practical use. Something new doesn't mean we will forget something older.

 

Remember we still love the XR200, XR250R and the XR400 tho they're out of production. There's only so much life in a man before he kicks the bucket, so my concept is to see something new as often as possible before i push up daisies....And no I'm not talking about Daisy Dukes, but that can be nice too lol. Just don't get caught by the ball N' chain lol. 

 

BOYS IT'S TIME TO GET A NEw Hat, new boots and straw to go along with it, and it should be named XR240F 

 

Better forks that are easy to mod and improve would be a plus but not all USD forks are.

 

Does a bike with these specs already exist?

 

Why change the 230F to join an existing category and leave the one it is in vacant?

 

If I rode in more open fast terrain I woulda prolly gotten a 250/450 MX bike, dreamy suspension, cheaper in the long run to make right.

[mlatour]

Careful what you ask for, lighter, more powerful, better suspension etc. all come at a price....

 

The current MSRP is probably what Honda accountants figure is the highest amount the average

person would spend on a new RECREATIONAL trail bike so, reason they've kept it simple/lower cost.

 

There are always enthusiasts ready to spend more than the bike itself is worth in aftermarket parts improving a 230F

but the majority of riders don't bother and simply move on to a more performance oriented bike.

 

There has always been a gap between entry level recreational trail bikes and full-on enduro/MX race bikes.

In the past years a few manufacturers have introduced new 'high end trail bikes' to fill in the gap

but also with an accordingly steeper price tag which probably scares off many potential entry level buyers :

 

KTM Freeride 250R

BETA X-Trainer 300

Sherco 290 X-Ride

 

Personaly I'd love to see a new simple air-cooled 250-300cc engine installed in the current CRF250X chassis

but Honda is a very conservative company, they play it safe by keeping the 230F as-is.

 

They easily sell each bike they manufacture now, how many 'all-new' tricked out 230F's would they sell if MSRP was 7000$+.....

Edited January 23, 2017 by mlatour

[mlatour]

The Yamaha 2-strokes and Honda CRF-X are good examples,

pretty much un-changed since they were introduced over 12 years ago yet they've always had great popularity.

 

May not be the latest and greatest but their overal package are very good and cater to as many riders as possible.

It's no fluke I ended up with one of each (see signature), but thru all the positive reviews and chosen for their dependable proven designs.

Edited January 22, 2017 by mlatour

[Chuck.]

All I want is a lighter version of what I have now.  Unfortunately that means higher cost.

 

What amazes me about the "warmed over XR200" is that we STILL chose it, even though some of us can buy any bike we want.

 

I actually do not agree on the longer wheelbase, though it would be much better for fast long open work.

 

A close-to-200-pound CRF230F...  That would be awesome...

 

One of my goals was a sub 200lb XR200R, I got almost there but the last 5-6 lbs were becoming more difficult than the initial. Plus I was discovering that sometimes function was more important than weight.  And weight close to CG of the bike isn't important while riding.

 

In the really slow short tight stuff the XR250 really does give it up to the CRF230.  The longer wheelbase, higher CG, taller chassis, and greater weight are very easily felt.  And that beefy two-valve low-speed torque just gets it done.

 

We had two CRF230s and two late-model XR250s in the stable for quite some time.  The CRF230s just eat up the XR250s in the really slow short tight stuff.  However...  Open things up just a little bit and the XR250 starts working really well.  The engine and chassis are great when you have more space and the terrain is rougher.  I LOVE the late-model XR250 in that context.  I HATE the CRF230 in that context.

 

The CRF230 is just too low and too short when things get fast and rough.

 

The right bike for the right context...  One of each!  And, of course, and XR600.  I just LOVE those things!

At least one of each, I also have a Trials bike.

54-55" wheel base has always been my optimum for the types of trails that I ride, but I've also used MX bikes on those trails, just not as much fun.

I have a CRF250X and IMO it is the next gen XR250R; rigid chassis, MX suspension for woods,  lighter than a XR250R, more hp than a XR400 and a very broad power band.

 

With different motor mounts for the 2 valve motor the 84-85 XR200R/250R chassis became the 86-02 XR200R. And the cockpit size is full size (a bit larger than the CRF230).

All the discussions about suspension travel, chassis flex etc just aren't as important for slow speed technical riding where low CG, light weight, short wheelbase, and low seat height become more important.

 

You should also add the Honda-Montesa 4Ride to the list of Freeride type of bikes.  Based on a Trials bike designed about the same time as the CRF250, it is a single cam water cooled light weight 4T engine with no battery EFI. Two friends have the Trials version (4RT) and I have the 2T Trials version (315R).  We have added Long Ride seats and tanks. As a side note the XR200/CRF230 type of engines have a small clutch , frustrating because of the need for stiff springs when modding the engine.

 

My Trials bike, and the other two mentioned,  have short travel (6") suspension, short wheelbase, and light weight.  The forks are Showa cartridge with linkage on the rear.  When riding trail there is a lot of pitching and you need to use your body to help the suspension. But the bikes are so maneuverable you can  easily dodge trail debris.

 

My XR218 has modded suspension: Showa CRF150R forks, XR250R shock, disc brakes, etc. It does ST and technical stuff so well that it is my fav trail bike. It is interesting that spec wise, except for weight, it is so similar to many modified CRF230Fs listed on this forum.

 

My CRF250X; lowered so it has less suspension travel, added a heavy flywheel. Best suspension and handling of the three, it has a very planted feel and is easy to ride fast. For my type of trail riding it has more power than needed, too long a wheelbase, and too much weight. Sure do like the estart., and on open terrain it is fast enough for me to become seriously hurt.   It is plated so I can use forest Service roads to connect trails.

 

I also think Honda is missing an opportunity here, but as previously commented it may be a cost issue and targeted audience. So we have TT and build our own. ?

Edited January 22, 2017 by Chuck.

[bajatrailrider]

I could not wait for new 230/240. Already have 230/254 Cr/fox susp. Better then anything Honda will bring out,also long wheel base not needed. Once you get susp right it works great.

[VortecCPI]

With different motor mounts for the 2 valve motor the 84-85 XR200R/250R chassis became the 86-02 XR200R. And the cockpit size is full size (a bit larger than the CRF230).

All the discussions about suspension travel, chassis flex etc just aren't as important for slow speed technical riding where low CG, light weight, short wheelbase, and low seat height become more important.

 

I don't believe most riders realize just how compact the chassis was on the 84/85 XR250s.  The two 1984 Al Baker XR265Rs we had were tiny compared to the late-model XR250.  When I started riding again in 1997 I had my heart set on a late-model XR250 but when I got on one it felt too big and tall and heavy for my needs.  The engine, while plenty snappy in the middle, did not impress me elsewhere.  All those years on the 1984 Al Baker XR265R really spoiled me.  When I hopped on the CRF230 it felt very close to the old XR265, weak engine and suspension aside.  The CRF230 has almost the exact same wheelbase and only 1/2 inch less suspension front and rear.

 

While my CRF230 is a lot heavier and a lot weaker then the old 1984 Al Baker XR265R the super-torquey engine makes up for the difference.  Where I needed the right gear at the right time and a lot of clutch work with the old XR265 the two-valve CRF230 just plows away like a little diesel.  it is EXTREMELY forgiving and allows for poor line setups and mistakes where the old XR265 would NOT.  If you make a mistake with the old XR265 you were very quickly reminded with either a stall or uncontrollable wheel spin -- Very much like a 2T engine.

 

Again...  All my input is based upon slow short tight work where speeds are 10-15 MPH.  Just like where your XR218 really shines.

[Chuck.]

 

 Where I needed the right gear at the right time and a lot of clutch work with the old XR265 the two-valve CRF230 just plows away like a little diesel.  it is EXTREMELY forgiving and allows for poor line setups and mistakes where the old XR265 would NOT.  If you make a mistake with the old XR265 you were very quickly reminded with either a stall or uncontrollable wheel spin -- Very much like a 2T engine.

 

Again...  All my input is based upon slow short tight work where speeds are 10-15 MPH.  Just like where your XR218 really shines.

Exactly, these two valve motors work so well in the REAL WORLD of trail riding. ?

[VortecCPI]

Exactly, these two valve motors work so well in the REAL WORLD of trail riding. ?

 

Chuck...  You are not kidding.  When I was younger I always wanted an XR200R.  I vividly remember seeing the very first one when I was a teenager.  Later, when Al Baker built my XR265R, I looked at the old XR200s as a utility or non-serious bike.  Likely the same way I used to look at the CRF230F and the way many (majority?) still look at both to this day.  I craved and enjoyed the power of the Al Baker XR265R and why a rider would chose an XR200 or CRF230 was beyond me.

 

But then something strange happened...  I grew old and wise (others may argue) and began to realize you can accomplish quite a bit (more?) with the wonderful old two-valve engine if the suspension is made right in the small chassis.  The stock CRF230 engine is dismal compared to the good old XR200 engine BUT when uncorked and properly jetted it comes alive.  Though it lacks the peppiness and top end of the XR200 engine it makes up for it by delivering lots of big fat torque right off idle and way down low.  This CRF230 is quite a porker and that magical two-valve engine allows it to perform and feel a lot like an XR200.  At least until you drop it and have to pick it up when you're tired!

 

I have found I can still cover some serious ground, even with the stock engine.  And while it is not the white-knuckled ride the old Al Baker XR265R was it STILL gets the job done.  With the exception of loam and sand and some big hill climbs I believe my CRF230 would do just about anything the old Al Baker XR265 could do.  In many cases it does it BETTER because I have far better control of traction (wheelspin) and it is so much more forgiving.  At my age, and for our riding context, a CRF230 fits my needs very well.

 

I have grown to love and appreciate this old wonderful engine.  You really have to spend some time on an XR200 or CRF230 to appreciate just how nice these old engines really are.  So forgiving it feels like you are cheating at times.

 

As always Chuck, thank you for all your help and input.

[The Plvis]

Ok Guys we all know how wonderful the 230f can be; that's a given right? Now let get back to what it should be come. Time is ticking on her, and I'm sure Honda or someone close to Honda reads our opinions. Once a bike sale too many copies, or has been around for too many years, it begins to fade out in the mind customers or potential customers.

 

Sales drop and more often than not, the production of the model is dropped. This will be the 230f's fate, and it's already begging to happen. It happened to the XR's so we know its going to happen to the 230F. Honda going to need an all new frame, at least to keep the 230F alive. How do you see honda keeping this bike alive? Do you think it will ever become water cooled? Do you see them changing the wheel base? Do you see them making a bike that works well in the woods, and work well in the open?

 

I see Honda following KTM 350 FreeRide with an AIR Cool engine. I see Honda keeping cost down by using XR250 forks, I see Honda mixing an Aluminum frame with steel. If Honda choose not do anything major to our 230f, we will only have the 150F to buy. That's how i see it going. I live in California...the motor cycle capital of the world. In years i haven't seen new 230f's on the floor. 

 

To me it signal the end of a great bike. What do you guys think?

[mikerbike]

I was so happy not to have a rear disk lol.

We got a new president, why can't we get an all new 230f? Something with... ...rear disk brake,

[SteveThe Snakes]

The 2018's are at the dealers now.

[The Plvis]

 

I was so happy not to have a rear disk lol.

We got a new president, why can't we get an all new 230f? Something with... ...rear disk brake,

 

 

For dual sporting, i can do without a rear disk lol. You never know where you may be or what condition you might encounter. I'm dual sporting the 230F today.