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08-09 YZ cam in 04 WR?



21 replies to this topic
  • john1220

    TT Member

40 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted October 07, 2016 - 09:53 AM


Looking for more power for my 04 wr450 and more usable power, I have a line on a new 08 yz450 exhaust cam.  

 

From searching, I understand the 08-09 yz was developed with less power but more usable power in mind.  Would an exhaust camshaft from the 08-09 achieve that goal or will it be about the same as the wr cam?  Riding is in Colorado and Utah - mountains, desert, single track, and elevation change.



  • knuckleduster271

    TT Bronze Member

222 posts
Location: Ohio

Posted October 08, 2016 - 05:08 PM


06 yz cam had the most aggressive"hit" out of the 06-09 bikes

  • Krannie McKranface
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Location: California
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Posted October 08, 2016 - 06:27 PM


The '06 is the cam to have.

The WR has 10 times more reciprocating mass, so the cam change will not make it feel like a YZ at all, just add more power everywhere, and still keep the more slowed-down power delivery of the WR. 



  • jamesm113

    TT Bronze Member

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Location: California
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Posted October 08, 2016 - 06:52 PM


I thought I read on earlier posts that the yz cams will remove power from down low and add a big midrange hit.  Is that not the case?

 

Is it worth changing the intake cam or just the exhaust only?



  • Krannie McKranface
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Location: California
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Posted October 08, 2016 - 10:03 PM


I thought I read on earlier posts that the yz cams will remove power from down low and add a big midrange hit.  Is that not the case?

 

Is it worth changing the intake cam or just the exhaust only?

 

 Just do the exhaust.

You will have more power everywhere.

 

If you want a 'racing' powerband (faster reving) you need a race cam, like a Hot Cams stage 2 cam set.  Only good for constant higher rpms situations.

 

The WR head is very restrictive. You cannot get much happening with a new intake cam unless you port the head closer to YZ specs.

 

I have tried the stock head/'07 cam, Ported head/HotCams YZ spec cam set, Ported head / '07 ex cam . The last set up was by far the best. The '06 cam is even better.


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  • knuckleduster271

    TT Bronze Member

222 posts
Location: Ohio

Posted October 09, 2016 - 07:08 AM


Just do the exhaust.
You will have more power everywhere.

If you want a 'racing' powerband (faster reving) you need a race cam, like a Hot Cams stage 2 cam set. Only good for constant higher rpms situations.

The WR head is very restrictive. You cannot get much happening with a new intake cam unless you port the head closer to YZ specs.

I have tried the stock head/'07 cam, Ported head/HotCams YZ spec cam set, Ported head / '07 ex cam . The last set up was by far the best. The '06 cam is even better.

I didnt know there were any difference in the yz head and the wr head besides the ais port?
Do you know where the difference is exactly?

Edited by knuckleduster271, October 09, 2016 - 07:36 AM.


  • stevethe

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Posted October 09, 2016 - 09:21 AM


Get ready to look up grinding the decompression pin.
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  • Krannie McKranface
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Location: California
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Posted October 09, 2016 - 01:30 PM


I didnt know there were any difference in the yz head and the wr head besides the ais port?
Do you know where the difference is exactly?

 

Different sized passages to the valves (larger, straighter) for more flow.



  • stevethe

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Posted October 09, 2016 - 01:57 PM


I didnt know there were any difference in the yz head and the wr head besides the ais port?
Do you know where the difference is exactly?


Different year YZ's from 06-09 had different ports.

  • jamesm113

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Posted October 10, 2016 - 10:03 AM


How much more powerful is the 06 cam?  Part of me is a little worried it might be too much power, since Yamaha changed the cam the following year and kept that part number until switching to the FI'd 4-valve in 2010.

 

Anyway, I found a good price on very low hours 07 yz450f cam set.  I also found a used 06 yz450f cam set for nearly double the price of the 07 set.

 

I don't want to port my head, just get more power everywhere in the RPM range for minimal effort.  :smirk:   I do know I will have to grind the decompression pin, which is fine.



  • Krannie McKranface
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Posted October 10, 2016 - 03:41 PM


How much more powerful is the 06 cam?  Part of me is a little worried it might be too much power, since Yamaha changed the cam the following year and kept that part number until switching to the FI'd 4-valve in 2010.

 

Anyway, I found a good price on very low hours 07 yz450f cam set.  I also found a used 06 yz450f cam set for nearly double the price of the 07 set.

 

I don't want to port my head, just get more power everywhere in the RPM range for minimal effort.  :smirk:   I do know I will have to grind the decompression pin, which is fine.

 

Sounds like the '07 will be fine if you do not port your head.

Not much difference otherwise with the '06.



  • john1220

    TT Member

40 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted October 11, 2016 - 08:23 AM


The '06 is the cam to have.

The WR has 10 times more reciprocating mass, so the cam change will not make it feel like a YZ at all, just add more power everywhere, and still keep the more slowed-down power delivery of the WR. 

  

06 cam is not currently an option due to price.  The 08-09 cam is nice and cheap.  Do you think the swap be worth it?  I'm not trying to create a YZ, I can't imagine trying to ride ST on one of those beasts.  I just want beefier power delivery.



  • jamesm113

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Posted October 16, 2016 - 08:41 PM


Threw in the 07 yz exhaust cam and rode today.  Definitely much more power in the midrange - my first hill climb I was surprised by how easily the front wheel wanted to come up.  Felt like it took away a bit from the low-end.  I couldn't lug it around on tight singletracks.

 

i didn't grind it yet, but it the electric starter was working OK.  Not as easy to start as the WR cam



  • jamesm113

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Posted October 24, 2016 - 03:25 PM


Did a second ride this weekend at gorman with the 07 yz exhaust cam.  Probably about 100 miles of between this weekend and last weekend.  Of those 100 miles, probably 10% desert riding and 90% trail riding.

 

It's definitely missing some power down low, which only really affects singletrack riding for me.

 

The mid-range to high-RPMs absolutely rips - the front wheel comes up real easy now and it's much more fun to ride if the trail has room to ride more aggressively.  Had a few "oh crap don't loop it" moments early in the day as I was still used to the old cam.  If all I did was desert riding I would be thrilled with the mod.  

 

Also gone is the slow-revving feel - it revs much faster now.  On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being a YZ and 1 being a DRZ, it was a 2 before and it's a 4 now.

 

But alas, I like ST too much, so I'm going to continue to tinker to try to figure out.  When riding a tight singletrack, I need power right away, not .5 seconds later.  

 

Things I'm thinking of trying:

  1. Found a 08/09 YZ header pipe locally on craigslist for $50 (currently stock WR header+FMF Q4 pipe).  I'm thinking the bigger pipe will hurt the low-end though.
  2. Try the 07 YZ intake cam (I bought both cams, so I might as well try it)
  3. Look for other year cams (06? 03-05?)
    1. I made a wiki page with all the cam info I could gather... http://www.thumperta...-swap-info-r589  Unfortunately, after reading 40+pages of search results, I couldn't find specs (LCA, duration, lift, etc) on the 03-05 & 06 cams yet.  I've read accounts that the 03-05 have the most "grunt" and 06 have the best all around power..

Other note.  I still haven't gotten around to grinding down the decompression PIN.  I haven't had to use the kick starter, though the e-start does take longer than before.  Most times, it fires up first try, but there's a few times it takes a few attempts.  I hold down the hot start & give it a few throttle blips to get it going.



  • 04 wr450

    TT Member

28 posts
Location: Australia

Posted November 07, 2016 - 02:40 AM


I have 05 yz cams in my 04 wr,and am very happy.more power everywhere.certainly worth it.

  • john1220

    TT Member

40 posts
Location: Colorado

Posted November 08, 2016 - 10:31 PM


When I got mt 04 WR it had the stock cam in YZ position and it ripped.  A little slow to start but very fast.  I set it back to WR timing and it just ran OK.  It didn't start much easier, it certainly wasn't more controllable in the low revs - about the same, but just felt choked.  The idle just wouldn't set right either.  And the pipe GLOWED CHERRY CHERRY RED!  

 

Last weekend I set the WR ex cam back to YZ timing and did the O-ring mod in the carb and went for a ride.  This bike freaking rips!  Same or better low-end response, excellent (maybe too good) snap from the o-ring mod, no cherry red pipe, STRONG mid and over-rev.  GOOD STUFF!  My arms still hurt 3 days later from hanging on.  I'll just stick with my WR exhaust cam timed to YZ specs, thank you very much!

 

I also spent some time on a 2012 CRF450R that was mildly hopped up and came away pleased with the power delivery of my WR.  The CRF had more and was more linear, but not a lot more.  Nice bike, the fuel injection was nice and clean.



  • Krannie McKranface
36,189 posts
Location: California
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Posted November 09, 2016 - 06:26 AM


Did a second ride this weekend at gorman with the 07 yz exhaust cam.  Probably about 100 miles of between this weekend and last weekend.  Of those 100 miles, probably 10% desert riding and 90% trail riding.

 

It's definitely missing some power down low, which only really affects singletrack riding for me.

 

The mid-range to high-RPMs absolutely rips - the front wheel comes up real easy now and it's much more fun to ride if the trail has room to ride more aggressively.  Had a few "oh crap don't loop it" moments early in the day as I was still used to the old cam.  If all I did was desert riding I would be thrilled with the mod.  

 

Also gone is the slow-revving feel - it revs much faster now.  On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being a YZ and 1 being a DRZ, it was a 2 before and it's a 4 now.

 

But alas, I like ST too much, so I'm going to continue to tinker to try to figure out.  When riding a tight singletrack, I need power right away, not .5 seconds later.  

 

Things I'm thinking of trying:

  1. Found a 08/09 YZ header pipe locally on craigslist for $50 (currently stock WR header+FMF Q4 pipe).  I'm thinking the bigger pipe will hurt the low-end though.
  2. Try the 07 YZ intake cam (I bought both cams, so I might as well try it)
  3. Look for other year cams (06? 03-05?)
    1. I made a wiki page with all the cam info I could gather... http://www.thumperta...-swap-info-r589  Unfortunately, after reading 40+pages of search results, I couldn't find specs (LCA, duration, lift, etc) on the 03-05 & 06 cams yet.  I've read accounts that the 03-05 have the most "grunt" and 06 have the best all around power..

Other note.  I still haven't gotten around to grinding down the decompression PIN.  I haven't had to use the kick starter, though the e-start does take longer than before.  Most times, it fires up first try, but there's a few times it takes a few attempts.  I hold down the hot start & give it a few throttle blips to get it going.

 

Gorman?

I ride the LPNF and other stuff in the area every weekend. 

See my 'Krannies just right ride thread' in the CA section.

 

If you want more off-idle throttle response and torque at lower rpms, you don't want a YZ header. That decreases back pressure, and increases flow only at higher rpms.

Advancing the timing helps to get back the response down low. You can do it at the stator pick up or, put in a Dynatek ECU.

So does a leaner needle. The stock 2006 YZ needle works great. You can prove this by dropping the needle you have two positions,  to feel the change.

You can get to the needle by taking off the tank and nothing else, and rotating the carb back and forth to access the allen head screws on the top of the carb.

Adjusting your TPS to spec also helps.

Have you done the gray wire mod yet?

Blocked off the ACV system and changed the Pilot air jet? That helps a few percent.

Removed the backfire screen? (requires a switch to non-flammable filter oil like NoToil)


Edited by Krannie McKranface, November 09, 2016 - 06:27 AM.


  • jamesm113

    TT Bronze Member

172 posts
Location: California
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Posted November 09, 2016 - 12:35 PM


Gorman?
I ride the LPNF and other stuff in the area every weekend. 
See my 'Krannies just right ride thread' in the CA section.

Yea, first time at Gorman. To be honest, after seeing the number of goons at the gate and in the parking lot, we considered turning around. But once we got deeper into the park, the riding was quite good, especially the blue square/black diamond trails. The "walls" were are joke though, especially compared to the 500 hill or even the sand hill at jawbone. My riding buddy didn't like the 120/east fraizer trail, so we turned around way too early there.   :thumbsdn: Typically my favorite spot is Ballinger. I'll check out your thread.
 
 

If you want more off-idle throttle response and torque at lower rpms, you don't want a YZ header. That decreases back pressure, and increases flow only at higher rpms.
Advancing the timing helps to get back the response down low. You can do it at the stator pick up or, put in a Dynatek ECU.
So does a leaner needle. The stock 2006 YZ needle works great. You can prove this by dropping the needle you have two positions,  to feel the change.
You can get to the needle by taking off the tank and nothing else, and rotating the carb back and forth to access the allen head screws on the top of the carb.
Adjusting your TPS to spec also helps.
Have you done the gray wire mod yet?
Blocked off the ACV system and changed the Pilot air jet? That helps a few percent.
Removed the backfire screen? (requires a switch to non-flammable filter oil like NoToil)

I ended up with an 06 yz header for $50 shipped off ebay.  I read the 08-09 was too big (i think 42-45mm) to offset the corked up stock muffler so I passed on the CL one. When I measured the 06 yz header, I got an ID of 40mm, which is consistent with other posts here.  I think the WR header is 38mm, but I'll measure it when I'll pull it to be sure.   Anyway, the 06 header is just something to experiment with.

 

I also purchased a pair of 06 yz cams from a fellow TTer, which are in the mail, arriving Monday.

 

Hmmm, I've been meaning to look into ignition timing more.  Hadn't heard of changing the timing at the stator pick-up..  I've read on the YZ forum here that they'll swap out CDI's to the '06 (or even 03-05) to get a little better response down low.  I suppose I couldn't do that with the WR?  Dynatek is probably out of my price range.

 

I currently have the JD red needle and have been pretty happy with it.  How would the 06 yz needle (NFPR) compare?  I've already done your recommended pumper mods (honda diaphragm kit, tokyo mods spring, #50 leak jet) and currently get just over a 0.5 second squirt.  I am quite pleased with the results from the pumper mods.  I have a #40 leak jet that I plan on trying out next time I pull the rear subframe (putting that air boot back on gives me nightmares :D )

 

I'll check the voltage/resistance of the TPS next time I'm in there.  I haven't had any of the surging/etc issues I read about being common to these bikes.

 

Gray wire mod is done  :thumbsup:

 

ACV & pilot air jet (#70) are stock.

 

Backfire screen is stock.  I run no-toil oil, but I am extremely disappointed in their filters.  I've had two of their filters disintegrate at the seams after one wash.  

 

Overall, the 07 yz exhaust cam alone was a big upgrade from mid to high RPMs and is an absolute blast to ride anywhere that is not singletrack. For ST, it's OK, but the WR exhaust cam was better - I could lug around in 3rd gear and have enough power to grunt it out.  With the yz cam on ST's, I'm not fast enough to be in the powerband of 3rd, so I'm constantly battling not having enough power and engine braking in 2nd.

 



  • stevethe

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5,231 posts
Location: California
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Posted November 09, 2016 - 06:55 PM


Yea, first time at Gorman. To be honest, after seeing the number of goons at the gate and in the parking lot, we considered turning around. But once we got deeper into the park, the riding was quite good, especially the blue square/black diamond trails. The "walls" were are joke though, especially compared to the 500 hill or even the sand hill at jawbone. My riding buddy didn't like the 120/east fraizer trail, so we turned around way too early there.   :thumbsdn: Typically my favorite spot is Ballinger. I'll check out your thread.
 
 

I ended up with an 06 yz header for $50 shipped off ebay.  I read the 08-09 was too big (i think 42-45mm) to offset the corked up stock muffler so I passed on the CL one. When I measured the 06 yz header, I got an ID of 40mm, which is consistent with other posts here.  I think the WR header is 38mm, but I'll measure it when I'll pull it to be sure.   Anyway, the 06 header is just something to experiment with.
 
I also purchased a pair of 06 yz cams from a fellow TTer, which are in the mail, arriving Monday.
 
Hmmm, I've been meaning to look into ignition timing more.  Hadn't heard of changing the timing at the stator pick-up..  I've read on the YZ forum here that they'll swap out CDI's to the '06 (or even 03-05) to get a little better response down low.  I suppose I couldn't do that with the WR?  Dynatek is probably out of my price range.
 
I currently have the JD red needle and have been pretty happy with it.  How would the 06 yz needle (NFPR) compare?  I've already done your recommended pumper mods (honda diaphragm kit, tokyo mods spring, #50 leak jet) and currently get just over a 0.5 second squirt.  I am quite pleased with the results from the pumper mods.  I have a #40 leak jet that I plan on trying out next time I pull the rear subframe (putting that air boot back on gives me nightmares :D )
 
I'll check the voltage/resistance of the TPS next time I'm in there.  I haven't had any of the surging/etc issues I read about being common to these bikes.
 
Gray wire mod is done  :thumbsup:
 
ACV & pilot air jet (#70) are stock.
 
Backfire screen is stock.  I run no-toil oil, but I am extremely disappointed in their filters.  I've had two of their filters disintegrate at the seams after one wash.  
 
Overall, the 07 yz exhaust cam alone was a big upgrade from mid to high RPMs and is an absolute blast to ride anywhere that is not singletrack. For ST, it's OK, but the WR exhaust cam was better - I could lug around in 3rd gear and have enough power to grunt it out.  With the yz cam on ST's, I'm not fast enough to be in the powerband of 3rd, so I'm constantly battling not having enough power and engine braking in 2nd.


You won't get much HP difference from the 07 WR450 cam. That should provide the best torque. Then run the YZ or such intake.

  • jamesm113

    TT Bronze Member

172 posts
Location: California
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Posted November 16, 2016 - 11:26 AM


Krannie,

Regarding the TPS - is there a specific value I should be targeting, or just whatever is in the service manual?

 

This is what I got last night. Closed position was OK (.5kOhms), but WOT was low (3.66kOhms).  It was a colder than 68F, so I'm going to try again when it's closer to 68F.

20161115_231206.jpg


Edited by jamesm113, November 16, 2016 - 11:30 AM.





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