Nutec race fuel

[lawdog]

Hello all,

Well I have just completed a fuel test to include several versionsofthe Nutec product.I normaly run Cam 2, andwas very happy with it, However. I first did a dyno run of Cam 2, then we went the Nutec GP-2,and got a small increase in bottom end. Next we tested Nutec special 4,and WOW we got 3 horsepower increae. This stuff is incredible. But the down side to this is, the cost at 15.00 a gallon, and it's HARD on the motor. In case you ever wanted to know. Dave

[John_Lorenz]

Lawdog

Is the tests compiled against say 91 octane fuel from the pumps ?

What is the summary of the test cases you have run through ?

What Test Cases did you validate on these summaries.

I.E.

Comarison between race fueles and standard fuels

Sorry its my job to look at this kinda stuff in a relitive manner differant industry though ?

At 15 bucks a gallon, it would be nice to see full figures on why spend the money (Right Shawn)

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

[lawdog]

The fuel that I normally run is Cam 2, wich is rated at 110 octane. I do not run regular gas in my bike,as it is not even close to being stock. The Nutec GP-2is rated at 110 octane while the special4 is rated at 90 octane. However both of the Nutec fuels are oxygenated. After each run, the carb. was drained and the fuel tank taken off and emptied. All tests were performned at the same motor temperature. Does that help? Dave

[John_Lorenz]

Ya it does for understanding the Test Spec

I did not mean anything (No Offence), my career is based on research and development. It is a very bad habit of mine to want information. I think if I were a Hotshoe and racing I would venture into the world of 15 buck a gallon fuels. But since I am a washed up balding ol`fart haz bin the Buck 80 91 octane is just right for me.

I like numbers and info so What I would say is since your bike is pumping iron, what are the Mods that you have done aka piston, stroker Cam or ??

This would be the Test Spec

test Case would be the senarios you ran the bike under

Test Summary would be the conclusion of the Data gathered and evaluted from the spec and case.

Man I am a stickler for perfection ?

Goo info though thanks for postig it

[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

[EK314]

Originally posted by lawdog:

But the down side to this is it's HARD on the motor.

Dave,

Can you please explain how it is hard on the motor?? Corrosive?? Eats seals?? Heat??

VP MR-2 is also oxygenated. Do you have any experience with it?? Is it hard on the motor also??

Ernie

[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: yzernie ]

[IBWFO]

We run MR2 in my son's CR 125 and it works great.

You have to jet accordingly though.

I tried it in my 426 and it didn't seem to run that well. I have a Yosh pipe, airbox and done the BK mod. The best I've found for the 426 is VP motorsprts 103.

D

[John_Lorenz]

I am not sure about your areas, but in San Jose there are a few 76's near the fairgrounds that carry 102 Octain for last I checked 5 bucks a gallon. I have not tried it but thinking about it. Good ol 91 works just fine in me beast.

The fairgrounds hosts every Friday Night and some wekends Sprint racing, thats why the 76 racing fuel in some Stations.

I mention this in case you have a regular raceway in and about the area try and scope the 76 stations and see if the ones close to the track have the 102.

[lawdog]

Ok,I hate to give out all of my motor secrets,but here we go. The motor has been completely redone, by GT Thunder (Major Sponsor). I run stock cranks, but the bore is increased to a 440 displacement. I just put a set of degreeable cams in it, and the cylinder has been milled to increase compression. The motor does have a 12.5 to 1 compression piston,and I now use a Dr. D wet sump conversion. With Nutec fuel we broke 51HP. Corrosion is a problem, I was told after using this fuel to drain the tank, carb and then run regular gas into the motor. I have used MR-2/C-12 and both work great, but I'm alway's looking for an edge. Later Dave

[MGR_8]

Lawdog,

How long have you had your motor wet sumped? I just had mine done last week. My question to you is are you going over 1 hour per oil change or do you have a practice bike? Any adverse reliabilty yet? I put about 1hr fifteen minutes on mine this past weekend. Bike ran fine, but the oil was spent. Would appreciate your insight.

I am very happy with the weight saving...you can really feel the difference on the bike. MXA made the whole changing the oil thing sound so difficult...I found it to be as easy or easier then stock....having a small funnel is essential. Getting the DrD CF airbox this week....can't wait to see if it makes as much difference in the handling (wt. wise) as the wet sump.

Let me Know..thanks

MGR8

[Hootna]

Lawdog,

Not to seem skeptical I do believe that it is possible to get a 3 Horse gain especially on a bike that is creating 45+ horsepower. But when you are only comparing the NUTEC to CAM2 it is not a very thorough test.

Now if you had tested a few different blends of VP, 76, Trick etc. I could understand. I just have a feeling that VP makes a gas that is comparable with the same results or close.

Also at 15$ a gallon that is way way to steep, I hope at that price it comes in the cool little painted drum and not just a Blue can.

Well to this point I have had no need for Race Gas on my 4 stroke just a shot of VP octane booster but I personally run 76 110 Leaded in my 2 Stroke at 6$ a gallon.

[kfrosty]

First of all I'm not flaming or trying to sound condescending but I went through all this stuff trying to figure out what type of fuel to run in the 426 when I first switched. I was confused, the book says run 91 (I believe) octane but all the replies I got back said I needed to run this or that racing fuel. I wasn't looking for an advantage with the bike but more so trying to figure things out to just make sure it ran solid and let me be the deciding factor.

I see $15 a gallon fuel all these mods on a bike that hauls anyway for MX applications.

After reading all this hoopla I went to about the fastest guy I know around here on the east coast. (Actually the reigning 25+ A and 30+ A national champion.) and asked what mods and fuel he runs. I think he runs a Big Gun pipe (Not a plug for them because I run DRD. And this is only because I just bent my stock one all to pieces.) and some suspension work. For fuel I believe it's 85 octane in the winter and 89 in the summer. I can promise you, if you watch and hear his bike go around the track there won't be many that go much faster anywhere. (Outside the nationals.)

If all of this is tinkering because it's a hobby, then more power too you and I think it's great. I just wanted to post this because there are people out there in my shoes reading all this and trying to figure out what they should do to make their bikes run sound. Just read the manual and run Premium pump gas. (Unless of course you are mod'ng the bike and they require the extra mods.) But if you feel you need this for an edge, just go check out the bikes of the fatest guys at your local tracks and see what they are doing.

Again, for all the persons on here, I'm not attacking you and all this stuff you are talking about is great. I'm posting this for persons like me who just want their bike to run solid and not want to rely on mods to give them an advantage but more so want to make sure the bike doesn't break down or run improperly to put us at a disadvantage.

[Hootna]

KFROSTY, Man you are 100% correct there is in my opinion no need to run RACE gas in a stock motorcycle as the compression ratio timing etc. makes this useless. I personally run the highest octane available at the pump which is normally 91 and I do choose to add some VP octane booster. Now on my 02 CR125 it is necesarry to run Race Gas due to the motor mods and the inconsistency of pump gas. I have seen many folks that swear that Race Gas gives a stock bike more power but have not found this to be true. So if you dont have mods do yourself a favor and save some money buy at the pump.

[John_Lorenz]

I have posted a couple before this but I agree also with Kfrosty:

1st Yamaha designed the bike to run with the highest lowest Octane, They have to, us nim rods who just run stockers on the weekend would buy soemthing else if 115 octane was the norm.

I like Lawdogs tests though good insite and good info for the Racer who wants the most from his bike. Again common sence is needed here to distingush what Lawdog has posted and what is best for your bikes.

Personaly I would not spend 15 bucks a gallon on Gas, ( would pay 42.95 for a spanner wrench thoug Eh Hootna) ?

even my emntioning 102 octane from 76 @ 5 bucks is a stretch for me so I will stick with my 91.

KFrosty I would bet that the Fast Dude you refer to has his bike dialed to the letter. But I do find it hard to believe 85 Octan though, No Diss just have a question marc on that one.

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

[Hootna]

Let me see 42.95 for the spanner wrench or 3 gallons of NUTEC. I think I would buy the spanner over the NUTEC but man do I want one of those NUTEC cans with the cool graphics. Well at least that is what the can looked like in the MX mag with the bikini clad babe next to it. I wonder if she got a discount. Oh by the way EGO I wouldnt run you off the trail, I dont ride like that unless I am seriously provoked. Hope you made it up to the Hills this past weekend it was some awesome riding. Hey if you are ever looking for Race Gas or if anyone you know wants some the 76 Station in Morgan Hill on the corner of Main and East Dunne sells 110 Leaded for like 6$ a gallon. Just an FYI.

Peace..

[John_Lorenz]

Nah No offense, I have to big an EGO to be offended or worried about someone thinking they can knock me off . ?

Anyway I usually eat at Super tacaria for all the race gas I need prior to riding

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

[Hootna]

Yeah I know what you mean I got in trouble from the moderator on the CRF board. Seems I am not allowed to comment negatively towards his suspension review and the lack of credible evidence that his 450 could cut under an 02 YZ250.

So I now must tune myself down or risk being banished by the Red Thumper God!!!

Well then again we got in trouble on the 426 board too. Man we are batting a thousand..

Maybe we need to go pay the KTM board a visit and give that moderator a fit.

[John_Lorenz]

My Buddy is a Ktoomer, and the last time I was to go riding with him he got so scared he put himself in the hospital.

Ya the diagnosis was lack of Baa&&^&llls

Wuzz That got to doo with Race Fuel

Anyway if and when we hook up at hollister maybe we should duel to the finish ?

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: EgoAhole ]

[Shawn_Mc]

Now this is just my belief, but here it is. I believe Yamaha went with the 3-D iginition mapping just for the reason of cheap/bad/just plain crappy gas. Ya never really know what you'll get at the pump. Go look at Tim Ferry's bike. No throttle sensor! Ya know why? Im betting they dont need to think about it because they are running race gas 100% of the time. I run VP c-12 or Trick 108 in my bike, mainly because it starts easier and seems to run a tad cooler.

Ego has got a serious point about $15 a gallon gas. If you understand how gasoline works, you'll understand why Nutec at 90 octane makes more power but is harsher than the 110 octane. Im thinkin the chemical make up of the 90 octane is heavy with trichlor-ethylene (which will desolve aluminum not unlike true Ethanol)and Methyl Ethel Ketone. Both of these carry very high levels of available BTU's. Both very hard on engines, but make a ton of power. Understanding how octane ratings are achieved is also key when deteriming what fuel is best for which applications. Motor octanes are very different that research octanes. The pump octane ratings are achieved by averageing the Research and Motor octanes. Problem: Motor octanes are developed by testing done at 4000 rpm and research octanes are developed at 1500 rpm. Which do you think are the most important for a racing spec? Problem 2: What if your average octane 92 gas is something like 100 research and only 84 motor? Bad gas, but its still 92 average octane gas.

The best of both worlds, I cut my race gas with 92 pump gas. I run like I said, VPc-12 or trick 108@50%. Saves me a ton, my bike starts easier, eveabody happy

[kfrosty]

Ego, I had a little doubts about the 85 oct as well but didn't question the guy. I planned on running pump gas but as I said I just wanted his opinion. That's why I chose to go with pump gas. I went with Premium and my next question which brand comes close to giving you the most consistant and best quality. Around here, opinion is Amoco. I've tried it and Texaco and really don't notice a difference in the way my bike performs.

Also, I need to learn the difference between their's and there's. ?

[lawdog]

To All: EgoAhole;Hootna; and Kfrosty,

I do appreciate all of your input,and all I was trying to do was give some insite on a new fuel that hit the market.I do believe that VP makes a very comparable fuel (MR-8),and it works very well. If you guy's don't know,I am a quad rider,and compete on the Pro level. I am the fastest guy around here,on a quad, and on the national level I need everything I can get. Where isthe one place you can pass 19 quads a once??? The Hole shot!!! Stock 426's run great on pump gas, but I can't leave any thing to chance. I hope I haven't offended any one, just wanted to post some info. Later Dave