Honest Review- 2017 300XC

[2strokenut]

To date I have about 41 miles and maybe 3 hours on the bike, if this doesn't sound like enough time to give some sort of review and opinion then this thread may not be for you. What I do have is a set of trails that I'm very familiar with next to my home and some hard data to show. I'll most likely update this as I get more time on the bike.

My stats: 
31 years old, 6'3" 215lbs 30A rider and haven't ridden in 3 months due to ankle injury

Mods to bike: 
Replaced AER with CC forks with KYB carts done by TBT in AZ. 
Fork lugs changed to 22mm AER lugs
Rear re-valved and appropriate spring installed. 
Lectron carb with 2-3XL rod. 
RK TEK head

First, here is what I like about the bike:

-I love the light feel of the bike. It really makes the pre 17s feel like a tank.
-Electric start. I can't emphisize how useful this is and how well it works. I will never own another bike without one. Period.
-Vibration. Its very smooth and riding at any speed is very pleasing to your hands.
-You don't feel like you're going fast, but you are.
-Turns like nothing I've ever experienced. I've owned quite a few RM125/250s. 
-Love the 6 speeds
-Bottom to mid is a thing of beauty. It chugs so low and has more bottom-mid than my 300sx.

What I don't like about the bike:
-The bike turns sooooo easy it seems much easier to make a mistake and get squirrly. To sum it up, it doesn't give the same confidence as my 14 300sx. I felt like I could hit anything on that and feel confident where the tire would go. On the 17 I would get into a groove and it felt that the bike knew where I wanted to go...and then I'd hit a rock the wrong way and almost go over the bars.
-On my 14 I would steer with my rear wheel, rear brake controlling everywhere I wanted to go. This bike wants you to steer with the front wheel like a 4t. 
-The rear brake doesn't seem as responsive as my 14, this may be due to me just forgetting to use it and steering with the front wheel.
-I don't like the 2 bolt seat


Strava Data- Here are a few loops I did today in order:

Section 1 1- 2.3 miles
Today- 13:55 PR
Previous record April 15th - 14:00 (this was with a buddy who edged me out for the 30B championship this year and got 2nd in 30A at Shady Burro last weekend, so we were doing a good pace)

Section 2- .5 miles
Today- 2:22
Previous record April 15th-  2:22 tied

 

EDIT-Missed one

 

Section 3 (probably the rockiest and hardest one) 1.2 miles

Today- 7:19 PR
P. Record April 15th- 8:04

Section 4- 1.1 miles
Today- 7:25 3rd best
P. Record- April 6th 5:54

Section 5- .9 miles
Today- 6:55 3rd
P. Record- April 6th 5:52

So to break it down, as the ride got longer I got slower. No surprise. What I am surprised with is that the first loop I posted I beat my best time. I really didn't feel like I was keeping a good pace since I kept struggling with how to ride the bike. With every other loop I lost more and more confidence. In fact, in the first loop I was thinking "did I just make a 10k dollar mistake?" lol. Every so often I would concentrate on using the front wheel and changing my body position and that would last until the next close call.


Some confounding variables:
-I'm used to a Tubliss setup running much lower pressures
-The KYB forks need some valving changes for the new chassis. My buddy who I spoke about above has the exact same setting in his bike, and he likes the 300 so much he doesn't even want his 16 350 anymore.
-I should have stayed with the 26mm axle to slow down the handling
-I haven't ridden in 3 months, could be that I'm just getting tired and not handling the bike like I did a few months back. Maybe my body position is wrong and I'm too tired to keep it.


Anyways, if you read through all of that, give yourself a pat on the back. 

Here are some pics from today. I'm not happy about my side plate number coming up.

Edited July 26, 2016 by 2strokenut

[Aimtech]

i have a 16 we are weighted the same but i am 6'6".i find the front suspension very twitchy and deflects of square corners real easy, not as stable as my 13 450 xc-w.

gonna re spring and valve both front and rear and was considering a steering dampener, do you run one or consider a good way to stabilize the front end?. otherwise i love it.

also no issues with rear brake responsiveness 

[shrubitup]

. With every other loop I lost more and more confidence. In fact, in the first loop I was thinking "did I just make a 10k dollar mistake?" lol. 

No, not a $10K mistake. You can always sell it for $6500 or so - so it's just a $3500 mistake.

 

That's not very nice. The good button and the counterbalanced motor are worth that. 

 

I'm sure as you tinker and revise it will all come together and provide KTM Konfidence. ?

[2strokenut]

i have a 16 we are weighted the same but i am 6'6".i find the front suspension very twitchy and deflects of square corners real easy, not as stable as my 13 450 xc-w.

gonna re spring and valve both front and rear and was considering a steering dampener, do you run one or consider a good way to stabilize the front end?. otherwise i love it.

also no issues with rear brake responsiveness 

 

Good question, I have never run a stabilizer. TBH, not sure how they work lol. But twitchy would describe the front end, it deflect only of square edge at speed, but the exact same forks were on my 14 and I almost got no deflection at all, but I was running tubliss not a tube at 15 psi.

No, not a $10K mistake. You can always sell it for $6500 or so - so it's just a $3500 mistake.

 

That's not very nice. The good button and the counterbalanced motor are worth that. 

 

I'm sure as you tinker and revise it will all come together and provide KTM Konfidence. ?

 

Ha ha, its funny if had not beaten those times I would be very worried right now. But with any new bike you gotta tinker and find what works.

[Woodsweapon350]

So you changed 2 of the big things people are worried about for this test, the forks and the carb lol the rest of this just sounds like you need to get used to the new characteristics of the bike

[2strokenut]

So you changed 2 of the big things people are worried about for this test, the forks and the carb lol the rest of this just sounds like you need to get used to the new characteristics of the bike

 

I think you summed it up pretty well. I'm curious if I'm not the only one who thinks the bike wants to turn with the front wheel instead of the rear. Could be why my buddy with the 350 took to the 300 so easily

[rideorange525]

Something to keep in mind is lighter isn't always better. A lighter bike will be more likely to get bumped off line, even in the corners. My yz426 always felt like there wasn't enough weight on the floor not wheel.

I'm coming off 12 years of 4T since I had a 2T so it will be interesting to see if I feel at home with these traits like you're buddy. Last bike was '14 450xcw.

Steering dampers can help with twitchy-ness. GPR works both ways, I prefer Scott which only dampens turning away yet lets you turn back to center freely. It will help in any situation where your wheel gets bumped offline. Baby heads, bark buster clipping a tree and your rock in the middle of a corner issue. Instead of feeling alone he full deflection of the front wheel you'll only feel part of it as it will be slowed down. I've had steering dampers on last 4 bikes but am going to try going without on this one???

Thanks for all your information and review!

[Kenpo1]

I run a stabilizer on the RM and the YZ. I think they are a great mod for our terrain, but I don't like them as a fix for a twitchy front end. The more bikes I've owned and the more I've had different tuners do the suspension and help me with set up, the more I've realized twitchy front ends are a set up issue. 

Will a stabilizer lessen twitchy feeling? yes, but it's only eliminating a symptom, not a root cause. 

What the stabilizer does do well, that you would like as we ride all the same trials, is save your bacon when rocks come out of nowhere at speed, take some strain off your arms when blitzing a rock garden, and help straighten the bike out in fast whoops when you're tired and bad body position causes sawpping. I run my HS damping on my fastway almost all the way out. I change low speed dependent on terrain and I like some return to center damping as well. 

 

Per our FB conversation, sounds like you may need to make some minor set up changes, but mostly adjust a little to a different chassis that has some different handling characteristics than your last bike. 

I've followed you enough (not a lot) but enough that I'm really curious if I can see a difference in your riding style/bike handling on this new bike. That is, if you'll slow from an A pace to a B pace long enough hahaha. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Kenpo1

[2strokenut]

I run a stabilizer on the RM and the YZ. I think they are a great mod for our terrain, but I don't like them as a fix for a twitchy front end. The more bikes I've owned and the more I've had different tuners do the suspension and help me with set up, the more I've realized twitchy front ends are a set up issue. 

Will a stabilizer lessen twitchy feeling? yes, but it's only eliminating a symptom, not a root cause. 

What the stabilizer does do well, that you would like as we ride all the same trials, is save your bacon when rocks come out of nowhere at speed, take some strain off your arms when blitzing a rock garden, and help straighten the bike out in fast whoops when you're tired and bad body position causes sawpping. I run my HS damping on my fastway almost all the way out. I change low speed dependent on terrain and I like some return to center damping as well. 

 

Per our FB conversation, sounds like you may need to make some minor set up changes, but mostly adjust a little to a different chassis that has some different handling characteristics than your last bike. 

I've followed you enough (not a lot) but enough that I'm really curious if I can see a difference in your riding style/bike handling on this new bike. That is, if you'll slow from an A pace to a B pace long enough hahaha. 

 

You know what, I asked my friend Bill who a super fast older guy about my issue and his response was "that's exactly what I found and why we switched from 22mm to 26mm axles" Him and his son (whos AA) rode their 16s with the big axles because thats what they had on previous bikes but when they switched to the new axle they were like what the hell happened? So he said to try the old lugs and see how it feels. My other buddy who has a TX300 even offered to let me try his AERs next week while he's out of town.

 

As far as the faster trails and worrying about deflection, that wasn't even on my mind with my 14. I could hit anything at speed and be fine. I have no where near the confidence now. You should come over and ride this thing and see if you feel what I'm talking about.

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

I think you summed it up pretty well. I'm curious if I'm not the only one who thinks the bike wants to turn with the front wheel instead of the rear. Could be why my buddy with the 350 took to the 300 so easily

Nope,one of the testers for a major magazine had said exactly the same thing.Said took him zero adjustment time (being a 4t rider not riding a 2t for 15 years or so) because it steers and tracks more like a 4t in his opinion.Also said the power delivery was more 4t like than he expected.I believe he said this about the new 250sx but same idea.

[2strokenut]

Nope,one of the testers for a major magazine had said exactly the same thing.Said took him zero adjustment time (being a 4t rider not riding a 2t for 15 years or so) because it steers and tracks more like a 4t in his opinion.Also said the power delivery was more 4t like than he expected.I believe he said this about the new 250sx but same idea.

Yeah it totally turns like a 4t. It threw me for a loop trying to come to terms with it. I just got off the phone with my suspension guy and I feel kind of like an idiot but he asked if I set my sag...nope. I'm gonna check it tonight and hopefully ride it tomorrow and see how that affects it.

[Kenpo1]

Nope,one of the testers for a major magazine had said exactly the same thing.Said took him zero adjustment time (being a 4t rider not riding a 2t for 15 years or so) because it steers and tracks more like a 4t in his opinion.Also said the power delivery was more 4t like than he expected.I believe he said this about the new 250sx but same idea.

 

That's really interesting, since rotating mass, higher center of gravity and engine breaking are all major aspects of what makes a 4t handle like a 4t... what chassis changes are making a 2T feel that way? 

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

That's really interesting, since rotating mass, higher center of gravity and engine breaking are all major aspects of what makes a 4t handle like a 4t... what chassis changes are making a 2T feel that way?

Yeah the new chassis forces a more forward aggressive riding position and puts a lot of weight on the front wheel.2strokes description of his thoughts on the handling were exactly how I felt when I first got my 16 350xcf wich is also the new generation geometry.I found it very unusual at first but you adjust to it fairly quickly.I don't have my 17 yet so I am making an assumption based on his assessment and the fact a couple pro testers have mentioned the same thing.I defer to the guys actually riding the new smokers for the facts.

[Cactus73]

That's really interesting, since rotating mass, higher center of gravity and engine breaking are all major aspects of what makes a 4t handle like a 4t... what chassis changes are making a 2T feel that way? 

 

From the KTM website: These all-new die-cast engine cases feature an 8mm higher clutch shaft and a 27mm higher crankshaft, resulting in better mass centralization and quicker handling. In addition, it allows the implementation of a counter balance shaft. 

[ac717]

I don't really like how 4 strokes handle. I was set on getting a 250xc. Think i better get a ride on one before buying. Right now I'm on an rm250. I rode a Dungey 450sxf. Felt pretty good to me but that's a 450

[Sycamore]

I run a stabilizer on the RM and the YZ. I think they are a great mod for our terrain, but I don't like them as a fix for a twitchy front end. The more bikes I've owned and the more I've had different tuners do the suspension and help me with set up, the more I've realized twitchy front ends are a set up issue. 

Will a stabilizer lessen twitchy feeling? yes, but it's only eliminating a symptom, not a root cause. 

What the stabilizer does do well, that you would like as we ride all the same trials, is save your bacon when rocks come out of nowhere at speed, take some strain off your arms when blitzing a rock garden, and help straighten the bike out in fast whoops when you're tired and bad body position causes sawpping. I run my HS damping on my fastway almost all the way out. I change low speed dependent on terrain and I like some return to center damping as well. 

 

Per our FB conversation, sounds like you may need to make some minor set up changes, but mostly adjust a little to a different chassis that has some different handling characteristics than your last bike. 

I've followed you enough (not a lot) but enough that I'm really curious if I can see a difference in your riding style/bike handling on this new bike. That is, if you'll slow from an A pace to a B pace long enough hahaha. 

excellent post.  a Damper is a safety mechanism, at least that's the way I look at it.  I took mine off a few years back and REALLY liked not having it on, even in rocks.  One ride I came around a corner and hit a small dollheard wrong, high sided, and spent 3 days in the hospital with an ALLEGED puntured lung.  It was a bogus diagnosis but the point is I REALLY dont think it would have happened had I had a damper on.  

[Andrew_v949]

I hate riding without a damper.  I honestly feel handicapped without one.  Some bikes need one a lot more than others, but once I got used to my front end never moving on me, the small tradeoff of not being able to flick my bars as quickly is more than worth it

[rideorange525]

I can't stand it if I can feel the damper under normal riding so I set it almost as soft as it will go and use it only for safety or lots of baby heads.

[Kenpo1]

excellent post.  a Damper is a safety mechanism, at least that's the way I look at it. 

 

Exactly. 

 

 the point is I REALLY dont think it would have happened had I had a damper on.  

 

And you may well be right. It's only happened a couple times in the 40-60 hours I've been riding with a damper, but I can think of two times that my brain said "crap you're screwed" and then the bike settled enough to by me time to correct and I didn't crash. I am 99% sure the damper saved me. The jerk on the bars was so violent and the chassis so skittywampy then it just went away, the violent jerk on the bars.... like someone caught hold of it for me. 

 

I hate riding without a damper.  I honestly feel handicapped without one.  Some bikes need one a lot more than others, but once I got used to my front end never moving on me, the small tradeoff of not being able to flick my bars as quickly is more than worth it

 

 

Agreed, and the fastway has a HS, LS and return to center damping, so I run the high speed high to act as an oh sh@t safety mechanism and running the LS light or off keeps handle bar steering light. One thing I've noticed though, is that a lot of the times when I'm steering with the bars I SHOULD be leaning the bike over, and the stabilizer settings force me to do that. Only becomes an issue when I get too tired ride correctly, if that makes sense. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Kenpo1

[Andrew_v949]

I run my damper tighter than anyone I know.  I have a SCOTTS and my normal setting is 3-4 clicks in from full hard.  Only in the tightest single track where I have to steer with my bars a little will I back it off another 2 clicks.  Other than that, I just try to rear-wheel-surf my way through everything.  People ride my bike and shake their head not knowing what i'M THINKING

Edited July 27, 2016 by Andrew_v949