Amsoil motorcycle "dirt" oil



23 replies to this topic
  • mxrider4life847

Posted July 19, 2016 - 04:21 PM

#1

Few questions,

First off, please forgive me if this has been discussed before. I did do some research and online searching, but came up with no answers.

I'm a big Amsoil fan. I use it in everything I have (vehicles, tractors, lawn equipment, dirtbikes... Etc)

I'd like to run it in my new YZ450FX and intended on doing so, until I saw this, on the reverse label.... "RECOMMENDED for separate sump applications, including the Honda CRF and many two stroke dirtbikes"

Now I emphasize "recommended" because the oil DOES meet the specifications required for my yz. But... It is "recommended" for separate sump applications, the Yamaha 4 strokes are not separate sump, and require one oil for both engine and drivetrain.

So, assumptions/questions:
- the oil is formulated more towards a gear oil?
- but will work decently as an engine oil?

I'm sure that I am overthinking this and have already been running it in my bike. But it's been on my mind and curious if any fellow yz 4t'ers are running the same oil.

One other thing, When doing oil changes in my yz250 2T, I never used the check bolt as an "indicator", always used a measured amount of oil when performing an oil change. The YZFX book says to put in a specified amount, let the oil drain out of the check bolt, then loosen the oil pressure bolt, start the engine and wait <30ish seconds until oil begins to flow. Do y'all use the check bolt or pour in the correct amount?

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted July 19, 2016 - 04:42 PM

#2

MA rated for clutch side

MB rated for motor side

Use the recommended viscosity

Change the filter with each oil change

Ester oil if you want it push you oil change intervals farter apart, or if you ride to win at all costs.

Otherwise, pick a brand you like and go with it

 

Never have used the check bolt on any bike

Measure it in, occasionally measure it out, to check consumption

 

Don't buy 'synthetic' oil unless it says 'ester' or 'double ester' right on the bottle.

If it doesn't say that, it's not really synthetic, it's just ultra refined.

That's not to say you have to use synthetic. It just means it's less suseptable to temprature breakdown over time vs. Dino oil.

 

Just about every oil company offers a top notch oil product within their line.

Most oils come from one of a few US sources anyway...



  • grayracer513

Posted July 20, 2016 - 07:10 AM

#3

Amsoil's "Synthetic Motorcycle Oil", MCF (10w-40) or MCV (20w-50) is a high grade JASO MA/MA2 engine oil, and one of the few that is actually labeled as complying with API GL-1 gear lube specs.  It's a fully synthetic (Group IV) oil, completely wet clutch friendly, and absolutely excellent.  (And it's not the only one that is)
 
I haven't looked into their "dirt bike" oil, but oils labeled for separate crankcase/gearbox systems must be looked at carefully.  If labeled JASO MB, DO NOT use it in your YZF or any other application where it comes into contact with a wet clutch; too many friction reducers.
 
 

Don't buy 'synthetic' oil unless it says 'ester' or 'double ester' right on the bottle.
If it doesn't say that, it's not really synthetic, it's just ultra refined.

This statement is incorrect. There are oils labeled as "synthetic" that are nothing more than extremely refined petroleum products, such as Castrol SynTech.  They are the Group III oils.  It's stupid, and as you might guess, lawyers and courts were involved.

 

The esters mentioned are the Group V oils.  Esters offer only one significant advantage over other true synthetics, with is that they tend to cling to parts when left to sit for a time, and are thus less prone to allow wear on startups.

 

In between these, however is Group IV, which is the poly-alpha olefin (PAO) group of which Amsoil synthetics, Mobil1 synthetics, and probably most other good ones are members.  They are true synthetic oils, built from scratch out of component compounds, not refined petroleum, and are generally excellent in every respect.   Oil changes with high quality examples of these can be extended as far as 10 hours for recreational riding. 

 

Oil level check bolts in an application like your two stroke are rarely useful in straight drain/refill situations.  Measure the right amount in, you're fine.  There is one on the YZF also, but it's really still not of much use except in helping to diagnose problems with the oil system. Say that you drain and refill properly with the right amount, but find that there's way too much in the crankcase after it's been run for two minutes.  That would indicate a scavenging problem.  Otherwise, I don't bother with it, or the oil pressure check bolt, either.  There's virtually nothing except forgetting to add oil back or leaving the drain plug out that you could do during an oil change to keep it from having oil pressure after an oil change if it had any to begin with.



  • LeanBurn

Posted July 21, 2016 - 04:41 AM

#4

I'm reading from my bottle of Amsoil Dirt motorcycle oil.

It is a JASO: MA   API SG/SH/SJ/SL

Been using it in my 15 YZ250F since new. 75 hours and no issues with clutch or engine.



  • grayracer513

Posted July 21, 2016 - 06:27 AM

#5

If Amsoil labeled it MA, I wouldn't expect any problems whatever. 

 

Amsoil along with Mobil and a couple of others was one of the blenders that first realized there was a basic problem using multigrade engine oils as gear lubes; the additives used in most engine oils to give them their ability to perform as multi-grade oils were simply too fragile to stand up to the shearing forces in gear boxes.  Tougher additives existed at the time, those used in multi-grade gear oils, but they cost quite a bit more, and most oil blenders, especially in the automotive segment, didn't see the need to use them.  Amsoil, Mobil1, and a small handful of others upgraded about 10-12 years back, and their oils held up very significantly better than most otherwise good oils did.  Over the last 5 years or so, the rest of the field has begun to catch on, and there are considerably more good durable options now.



  • keeseckb

Posted July 21, 2016 - 10:07 AM

#6

What's everyone's opinions on the Lucas Oil motorcycle semi synthetic? http://www.motosport...eeF-RoChBzw_wcB

  • yzdude250f

Posted July 21, 2016 - 06:21 PM

#7

I've used Lucas oil on my 250f for a few seasons no issues, The first half of its life I used belray thumper, but as it got older I used Lucas as it was available at local autoparts stores and the bike was just back up.


I use amsoil in my current 450 because the previous owner used it if I had my choice I'd probably still use belray but he gave me a case of oil with the bike. Amsoil rep told me the "motorcycle" oil changed its name to Amsoil metric it's the same as the original motor cycle blend just a new name, Amsoil also has a few other oils more specific to just clutch side and crankcase side but they wouldn't apply in our case aswell as one specifically for dirtbikes that just came out within the past few years.

Edited by yzdude250f, July 21, 2016 - 06:25 PM.


  • mxrider4life847

Posted July 21, 2016 - 07:53 PM

#8

All very good info and highly appreciated. I have no doubts that there are quite a few very good oil brands/choices. I realize there are a lot of "what oil is the best" threads out there between many forums.

The Amsoil "dirt" line meets the required specifications for my bike. But I ponder the fact that they specifically state that it is recommended for separate sumps. The fact that they specifically call out two strokes, means that it is an oil blended/formulated closer to the gearbox than the engine.
And the fact that they even put that on the bottle label... Well, is enough to make me think a little harder about it and poses some questions. Did something happen in the past, on a single sump engine...? So to further cover their arses, they put in that statement... Maybe I will call them and get some info.

I'm sure that it would be perfectly fine and others have been using it for a while now with no problems. But when it comes down to it, I know that I do some nasty races with my bikes and I'd like to know I did the best I could to maintain the reliability and longevity of my engine.

Maybe I will have to forget the Amsoil in my yz and stick with the yamalube.

  • yzdude250f

Posted July 22, 2016 - 03:06 AM

#9

All very good info and highly appreciated. I have no doubts that there are quite a few very good oil brands/choices. I realize there are a lot of "what oil is the best" threads out there between many forums.

The Amsoil "dirt" line meets the required specifications for my bike. But I ponder the fact that they specifically state that it is recommended for separate sumps. The fact that they specifically call out two strokes, means that it is an oil blended/formulated closer to the gearbox than the engine.
And the fact that they even put that on the bottle label... Well, is enough to make me think a little harder about it and poses some questions. Did something happen in the past, on a single sump engine...? So to further cover their arses, they put in that statement... Maybe I will call them and get some info.

I'm sure that it would be perfectly fine and others have been using it for a while now with no problems. But when it comes down to it, I know that I do some nasty races with my bikes and I'd like to know I did the best I could to maintain the reliability and longevity of my engine.

Maybe I will have to forget the Amsoil in my yz and stick with the yamalube.

you would want Amsoil metric clearly states on the bottle 4 stroke and 2 stroke application, meets the required specs per manual too.

  • mxrider4life847

Posted July 22, 2016 - 06:10 PM

#10

Well..... I spoke with an Amsoil representative today....

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • JoeRC51

Posted July 23, 2016 - 08:40 AM

#11

Their  recommendation means it's good for either use , not ONLY in separate sumps.  Damn , some people are thick.



  • grayracer513

Posted July 23, 2016 - 09:42 AM

#12

You didn't need an Amsoil rep for that, did you?  It says MA on the bottle.

 

As to Lucas, that oil has a tendency to do rather poorly in anti-foaming tests, and comes up a little short in some other areas.  You can do better.



  • mxrider4life847

Posted July 23, 2016 - 01:32 PM

#13

Haha I did it out of curiosity. But, I was told that their "recommended" statement was supposed to say, "ALSO recommended for separate sump applications... " blah blah. So I'll keep using it. Thanks all for the good info.


Their recommendation means it's good for either use , not ONLY in separate sumps. Damn , some people are thick.


That's what she said... . No, but really. For a living I read maintenance manuals and use them to fix corporate, private and commercial aircraft, and wording like that, can realistically be the difference in safe flight, or catastrophic failure at 30,000 feet in the air. I'm programmed to read and question simple things like that. All it takes is one miss interpreted word or phrase, and it's game over.

  • JoeRC51

Posted July 23, 2016 - 01:54 PM

#14

Try a dictionary. Recommend and must / must not , don't have the same meaning. 



  • mxrider4life847

Posted July 23, 2016 - 06:44 PM

#15

Fella chimes in and says I'm "thick" then states that I need a dictionary because apparently, I'm unaware of the difference of recommended and must / must not...? Wow.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 24, 2016 - 06:34 AM

#16

Try a dictionary. Recommend and must / must not , don't have the same meaning. 

 

Lighten up.



  • xcbuckeyeguy

Posted July 24, 2016 - 08:32 AM

#17

Try a dictionary. Recommend and must / must not , don't have the same meaning.

Dictionary?? Do they still make those things? They're about as common as an encyclopedia set. Google is the info leader in this day in age.

  • cpetz24

Posted July 24, 2016 - 08:42 AM

#18

How come do all oil threads end this way?  Starts out great, then someone gets offended because someone didn't agree on their opinion of the best oil which, lets be honest, most people don't really fully understand the science behind it anyways.  I wish all oil threads could be put in a special section of TT and be banned from the Make/Model sections so that useful threads could actually be brought up for discussion.  

 

Get the oil that has the JASO-MA rating on the back and run it.  I run Rotella 15W-40 and never have had trouble.  Do I really care about all the specifics? No... I just know I've never had an engine failure, and IMO thats a win. .



  • stevethe

Posted July 24, 2016 - 05:02 PM

#19

How come do all oil threads end this way?  Starts out great, then someone gets offended because someone didn't agree on their opinion of the best oil which, lets be honest, most people don't really fully understand the science behind it anyways.  I wish all oil threads could be put in a special section of TT and be banned from the Make/Model sections so that useful threads could actually be brought up for discussion.  
 
Get the oil that has the JASO-MA rating on the back and run it.  I run Rotella 15W-40 and never have had trouble.  Do I really care about all the specifics? No... I just know I've never had an engine failure, and IMO thats a win. .


Hum an engine oil failure is pretty rare these days. However one might get more protection from the worst to the best oil.

  • RockerYZWR

Posted July 24, 2016 - 07:56 PM

#20

Oil is a religious matter for a lot of people...we Rotella users are non-denominational.





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