-84 and -86 engine mix?

[jamba]

I have 2 engines (both broken...)

Is it possible to mix parts to make one electiric start engine chancing -84 crank to -86 engine and -84 syl and piston to -86. What do i have to check?

[Beezerboy]

one engine in that era has a unique crankshaft, either 86 or 87.... only fits with that case & bearing set. other than that I think the 650s are pretty much the same, though here were other minor changes through out production. the biggest changes coming in '96 (clutch & basket, balancer weight design, cylinder & sleeve), I would maybe ping Eagle Mike for details. left on my own, I would measure the cranks side by side & check clearances. as I recall, the left side main bearing is impossible to find new, the rest is available. switch out the spring loaded balancer weights with the newer solid ones. reasonable price on ebay & they are a direct fit. there are no Gen I piston rings so if you want new, go Wossner.... they make the stock size piston & ring set (listed for the Tengai). the other piston option is a stock Kawi Gen II piston & ring set. Eagle Mike makes a 661(?) piston that will go in a pre 96 if you bore it, otherwise, you have to have a cylinder from 1996 or newer to bore 685.  oh,  and the Vulcan 1300 (I think) ... there were guys using a Vulcan piston for a psudo 685. but same story, pre 96 cylinder walls are too thin to bore big

 

if I had one that far apart, I'd put in a first gear from a 600 trannny. it's a lower gear than the 650... that way you can still have a pretty low gear with a 16 tooth countershaft sprocket. the 16T is great on the highway

 

 

and ya, cylinders & heads all interchange

Edited June 8, 2016 by Beezerboy

[jamba]

 

 

if I had one that far apart, I'd put in a first gear from a 600 trannny. it's a lower gear than the 650... that way you can still have a pretty low gear with a 16 tooth countershaft sprocket. the 16T is great on the highway

 

 

and ya, cylinders & heads all interchange

Thanks Beezerboy!

Both engines are 600, i think gears are identical. -I haven't checked that yet. I'll continue dismantling after i get full gasket set somewhere. I think my piston and cyl are ok, head is ok exept KARC has been removed by some earlier owner.

-jamba

[Beezerboy]

ah well.... different deal then. everything I put in my first post was about the 650.  the 600s are the same. some parts interchange with the 650 but not too many.  I think the balancer weights will work  but the chain is different on the kick start only model for sure (don't know if the electric start model is same as 650). fwiw.... the KARC is only needed for the kick start. I have purposely removed damaged ones from e start only bikes with no problems

 

as for cylinders & heads.... there was a guy on the 650.net site that bodged some of the 650 stuff on to a 600. I don't remember the details & cn not promise that any thing like that would work. most consider the 600 to be totally different from the 650

Edited June 8, 2016 by Beezerboy

[jamba]

Thanks again!

I will start this project with high hopes soon.

[Beezerboy]

also.... seen one (600) disintegrate from a broken Doo. the balance chain was hard to find (kick start only model). got a new lever & springs from Eagle Mike but could  not make the Torsion spring work. it was rubbed by the rotor & no way to make clearance. one other quirk on the early KLRs (650s too)... torquing the rotor nut.  on some the rotor will drag if fully torqued. I don't remember the exact number but around 130 ft lbs. if it drags,  Eldon Carl's method was to loosen & re-torque in steps & check for drag. anything over 100 is good enough. I have seen the rotor drag on a couple early ones & used that method - seemed to work.... never heard back about a blow up. Eldon was one of the early KLR gurus who had the first really good organized "how to" (with pix) for all the klr tech problems. he made & sold parts, but retired out maybe 6-7 years ago & his operation was taken over & renamed TopGun. all the tech stuff was taken down,  but he is still around & writes articles for TopGun. there is "history" between him, Sagebrush Jake & Eagle Mike (the big 3) so  differences of opinion & more exist. some of it got kinda nasty

[jamba]

Thanks again! I try to google those names, maybe i find something useful. Is it this:

http://www.topgunmotorcycles.com/index.html

[Beezerboy]

lotta options & talkin' etc. what I know for sure is Eagle Mike makes the best fix or the doo. made in USA, best material & design to fix a really terrible pos design from kawi that uses too many parts made of poor shit material. all  got to say

[jamba]

Now i have dismantled both engines. 

Engine a (-84, kickstart only) had original doohickey, good bearings and i was surprised how good condition it was. Kickstart shaft was bit bend :-(

Engine b (-86, with elecric starter) had broken doohickey and one bolt broken from waterpump, otherwise similar to engine a (except this had good kick shaft).

crankshafts are different from starter side

[jjktmrider]

Ya, they'll be different going from kicker to e starter motors . The stator and cover will be different , the crankcases themselves will probably be different or at least the left side due to the starter idler gear , Right side may not have a mount for the rear of starter either. It is usually only possible to use the entire bottom end off either motor but cylinder on up should be the same. A lot of things need to change to add that majic button , I've converted a few kicker bikes into e-start motors , all Japanese brands are pretty similar in what needs changing. 

 

Remeber whichever bottom end you use you'll need to use the frame for that motor or change the wiring and assorted thing to make the change in starting systems.

Edited October 2, 2016 by jjktmrider

[jamba]

Piston and cylinder we're nearly ok. i only honed cylinder slightly. Only one engine had cylinder...

I found that some previous owner had somekind of fixation to silicon, i found it everywhere..

 

 

He wasn't electric engineer either...

 

And this is how he had adjusted valve clearance

[jamba]

So, after i got a complete set seals and new doohickey, some valve shims, oil seals i begin to build engine.

I honed valves even they weren't so bad, -and got right size shims in.

Fixed few bad soldering. Took best clutch plates. Took better one waterpump propeller. Installed new doohickey. And lots of new bolts and nuts...

 

And i finally got one hopefully working engine.

 

[jamba]

So, i installed rebuild engine to frame

 

And fired it