450FX riveted masterlink


20 replies to this topic
  • motocrotts

Posted June 03, 2016 - 08:08 AM

#1

Have any of you guys removed your riveted master link yet?  I like to remove the chain from time to time and would like to put a regular master link on.  If so what type did you use?



  • cowboyona426

Posted June 03, 2016 - 12:51 PM

#2

I have to wonder why they went to a riveted master link, seems like it would increase cost and assembly time at the factory, plus the convenience of being able to easily remove the chain if needed.  The chain is a DID so I'd imagine any master link for a DID O-ring chain would suffice.



  • stevethe

Posted June 03, 2016 - 01:27 PM

#3

Riveted master links make the weakest link in the chain strong again. I only remove a chain to replace it with another rivited master link chain.
Most of the quality non rivet master links use a press on master link side plate anyways. It should really be replaced if disassembled anyways.

  • keeseckb

Posted June 03, 2016 - 02:08 PM

#4

look closely at the chain and see what model of DID chain it is. Then order a masterlink for that chain. Not all DID O-ring chains are the same. 



  • motocrotts

Posted June 03, 2016 - 03:32 PM

#5

It's a VM2 chain.  Can't find any master links for that.  Just ordered a VX2 link, I'll report in a few days and let you know how it works.



  • grayracer513

Posted June 04, 2016 - 09:29 AM

#6

A properly made and installed clip type master is every bit as strong and reliable as a riveted link, and in fact, can be more so if the riveted link isn't done 100% right.  A high quality clip link should be a tight enough interference fit that it requires pressing together, same as a good rivet type should, and there is no more reason to think that a properly installed clip should come off on its own than the heads of riveted pins to shrink and drop the plate.

 

I've always used clip type, and have never lost one.  OTOH, I don't remove link from the chain for any reason other than to replace the chain.  Just not necessary in most cases.



  • stevethe

Posted June 04, 2016 - 02:13 PM

#7

In my 50 years I have seen many many master clip chains go flying off. I've had a few and even two years ago my 450 supermoto bike had the non rivited master link chain go for a flying lesson. I had to park the bike and get a truck. Two years prior to that my son lost the non rivited master link and the chain went for a flying lesson on his 450.

Never have I seen a rivited chain go. So good luck with your master link clips.

  • RockerYZWR

Posted June 04, 2016 - 05:00 PM

#8

Gotta make sure the clip is facing the right direction, too.

Somewhat related story, I was a corner worker at motorcycle road races at a track in Texas on an infrequent basis back in college, had one of the 750s go powering out of the turn I was working, heard a pop, and watched his chain fire straight off the rear sprocket, up into the air surprisingly high, and land not far from where my little station was. Pretty hilarious - not for him and his DNF - but you don't see that every day.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted June 04, 2016 - 06:17 PM

#9

If you compress the link plate down over the orings using a c-clamp, you can get proper access to the seating of the clip into the grooves, without distorting it by trying to force it to seat.



  • grayracer513

Posted June 06, 2016 - 06:51 AM

#10

If you compress the link plate down over the orings using a c-clamp, you can get proper access to the seating of the clip into the grooves, without distorting it by trying to force it to seat.

 

Lots of ways to approach that, including a master link press made for that purpose, but it is definitely important.  If you cannot easily run the clip all the way down into the groove at all exposed points, the clip won't seat right.  Incorrect installation will account for 90% of all failures of high quality clip type links.  Neglecting a clip that's been severely worn by rubbing on stuff accounts for most others.

 

Don't need luck, you need to do it right. 



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  • motocrotts

Posted June 06, 2016 - 05:10 PM

#11

Lots of ways to approach that, including a master link press made for that purpose, but it is definitely important.  If you cannot easily run the clip all the way down into the groove at all exposed points, the clip won't seat right.  Incorrect installation will account for 90% of all failures of high quality clip type links.  Neglecting a clip that's been severely worn by rubbing on stuff accounts for most others.

 

Don't need luck, you need to do it right. 

 

I'll second that, I use a pair of vise grips and a 10mm nut to press the plate on.  Been doing it for years and no chain problems.  



  • stevethe

Posted June 06, 2016 - 08:28 PM

#12

Yup a second good luck on master link clips. There is a reason all the Motorycle manufactures went to rivet links. Good luck!! Hopefully you won't loose a chain through the cases.

  • RockerYZWR

Posted June 07, 2016 - 08:25 AM

#13

If this thread isn't dead yet, one other thing you can do is put a dab of JB Weld on the link clip on the side by the open end for a little added insurance. I don't but have seen many who do.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 07, 2016 - 12:00 PM

#14

 There is a reason all the Motorycle manufactures went to rivet links.

 

Yes there is: They're less expensive to manufacture, purchase from vendors, and take less time to install on the assembly line.  The Japanese alone produced over 520,000 units last year. $.05 saved per unit on something that has no other effect on the product adds up to $26000.

 

 

Besides,

 

1) There is no comprehensive data that supports the contention that clip types are weaker when assembled right. 

2) It's entirely possible to screw up assembling a rivet type.

3) Most chain failures are the result of neglect and/or running the chain too tight.



  • stevethe

Posted June 07, 2016 - 01:57 PM

#15

Yes there is: They're less expensive to manufacture, purchase from vendors, and take less time to install on the assembly line.  The Japanese alone produced over 520,000 units last year. $.05 saved per unit on something that has no other effect on the product adds up to $26000.
 
 
Besides,
 
1) There is no comprehensive data that supports the contention that clip types are weaker when assembled right. 
2) It's entirely possible to screw up assembling a rivet type.
3) Most chain failures are the result of neglect and/or running the chain too tight.


I consider telling people to use a clip type master link bad advice. It is quite easy to loose the circlip by a bent chain guide. Just back the bike up and ping it's gone or back it through a couple of rocks. My 50 years of supporting evidence of riding dirt bikes has shown me lost chains with master links = yes. Rivited linkes = none.

  • grayracer513

Posted June 07, 2016 - 02:08 PM

#16

Well, it appears we have roughly the same amount of seat time, and I have about that much pro wrenching time, and my experience is at odds with yours, I'm afraid.  I don't consider it bad advice at all.  Don't know what to tell you. 

 

Anything you do has to be done right.  I can tell you that if you were thinking of betting that one of my master link clips would become disengaged by dragging backward over any functioning part of the bike, placing that bet would be very bad advice. 



  • stevethe

Posted June 08, 2016 - 06:08 AM

#17

Interesting as I am just looking for new sprockets and a D.I.D. chain on one of our 450's. This is from the D.I.D. website. http://www.didchain....chainSpecs.html

 

If your stock motorcycle came with a "ENDLESS" chain, a replacement chain must be installed with a rivet type connecting link.

 

If nothing else at least some poor slob behind you might not get hit in the head with any possibility of a flying chain. :jawdrop:  253179d3d9f2fb69c22d17d4e37553be.jpg


Edited by stevethe, June 08, 2016 - 06:13 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted June 08, 2016 - 06:42 AM

#18

More from the risk management attorneys.  The endless chain thing at Yamaha started in part over a recall that resulted from an extremely small number of failures, likely brought on by end user meddling.  If they did not tell you not to modify the product they "corrected" the problem with, then someone would be able to say, "You never told me...", and the tort lawyers would be all over it.  Just like the lawsuits that arose from manufacturers failing to warn people not to strap refrigerators to their backs as a form of exercise, or that if you lift your toddler too far over your head, you might stick his head in a ceiling fan.  Next, they'll be warning you not to ride the bike you bought 'cause you might get hurt.

 

Believe anything you want, it changes nothing.



  • motocrotts

Posted June 08, 2016 - 08:30 AM

#19

I've had masterlinks on my chains since 1984 and have NEVER lost one or had it come off, nor have I seen anyone else have any problems with a good O ring chain.  I've had to remove a chain because the bike is easier to tow out of the middle of nowhere, and glad it had a link  I'd prefer a endless on a big street bike, but a dirt bike, no way. Greyracer is right the only reason is cost and ease of manufacturing, IMHO.


Edited by motocrotts, June 08, 2016 - 08:31 AM.


  • motocrotts

Posted June 23, 2016 - 05:50 PM

#20

You wanted to update everyone on the riveted master link.  I replaced mine with a DID 520 VX2.  Easy install and I'm glad I changed it.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_0729.JPG

Edited by motocrotts, June 23, 2016 - 05:51 PM.






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