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Sputtering and Popping above 1/2 throttle



45 replies to this topic
  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 14, 2016 - 08:41 PM


2008 WR450F:

 

Went to ride this morning after putting the bike away last weekend with zero issues. Got about 30-40mins of trail riding in. On the way back to the truck for some water. I decided I am going to get on the throttle and hit the big hill climb real quick before the water break. Crest the little hill prior to hill climb, get on the gas and bike is not happy. Starts stuttering, popping, and almost seems like a miss or lack of fuel. Bail on the hill and decide to try and run a quick flat trail to see whats up. Under load and above 1/2 throttle bike seems to be starving for fuel and popping like crazy and or seems to be missing. Bike starts no problem, idles no problem, and works fine cruising and putting below 1/2 throttle.

 

Got home and opened carb bowl to drain then closed drain and filled carb with carb cleaner then drained that. Seems so so in the garage, but with no real load I can't tell. Plan on making a quick run in the morning to see if it was as simple as that or if I am going to have tear into things. Any Suggestions?

 

Thanks for any and all help!

 

Thanks, Chris



  • JVP

    TT Silver Member

586 posts
Location: California

Posted May 14, 2016 - 08:51 PM


Check your fuse at the starter relay. It may be blown......

  • Krannie McKranface
36,164 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted May 15, 2016 - 05:21 AM


2008 WR450F:

 

Went to ride this morning after putting the bike away last weekend with zero issues. Got about 30-40mins of trail riding in. On the way back to the truck for some water. I decided I am going to get on the throttle and hit the big hill climb real quick before the water break. Crest the little hill prior to hill climb, get on the gas and bike is not happy. Starts stuttering, popping, and almost seems like a miss or lack of fuel. Bail on the hill and decide to try and run a quick flat trail to see whats up. Under load and above 1/2 throttle bike seems to be starving for fuel and popping like crazy and or seems to be missing. Bike starts no problem, idles no problem, and works fine cruising and putting below 1/2 throttle.

 

Got home and opened carb bowl to drain then closed drain and filled carb with carb cleaner then drained that. Seems so so in the garage, but with no real load I can't tell. Plan on making a quick run in the morning to see if it was as simple as that or if I am going to have tear into things. Any Suggestions?

 

Thanks for any and all help!

 

Thanks, Chris

 

Yeah, don't use 'carb cleaner' unless it's specifically for Motorcycles, as  you can melt rubber parts.

 

Sounds like:

 

- loose main jet

- loose plug cap/bad cap/bad plug

- stator pick up contamination

- bad ground



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 15, 2016 - 02:44 PM


JVP-

Thanks for the response. I don't know how to 100% diagnose if the relay is working correctly, but the two blade fuses look good. I must say it is entirely possible this is the problem, but the starter works great when the battery is juiced up. I'll elaborate on the when part following this post and a thanks to the next member explaining how this mornings ride went and my findings. If you could elaborate on how to test the relay I would like to test it to either find it as a problem or rule it out.

 

Thanks, Chris


Edited by csrosenberry, May 15, 2016 - 02:48 PM.


  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 15, 2016 - 02:47 PM


KRANNIE-

Thank you for your response also. That's a big 10-4 on the carb cleaner. I had no idea it would eat the rubber up. That was a first and last time use for me on this carb. And for the other items to check I will definitely start working on the list.

 

Thanks, Chris



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 15, 2016 - 03:20 PM


Today-

Well after cleaning the carb the best I could without removing the carb itself from the bike I went for another ride this morning. I had just about 40miles of trouble free riding with the exception of........I would come to a stop at the top of a trail and take a breather. I would shut the bike off, rest for a couple of minutes and then go to fire the bike off using the e-start. Sometimes I would hit the e-start and she would struggle to start the bike, sometimes I would hit the e-start and I would just get the buzz, and other times which was most the time I would hit the e-start and it sounded like I had a brand new battery in there and the bike would roll over and fire up effortless in a matter of a second.

 

After my 40miles of doing everything I could do to see if it was a fuel issue by running big hill climbs over and over and full throttle straightaways I thought I was in the clear and yesterday something had just clogged one of the jets and now it was no longer and issue after cleaning. No stuttering and no popping bike would pull as hard as I could hang on. On my way back to the truck to get a snack. Bike starts acting up again, exact same manner as yesterday.

 

So I pulled out my meter and checked a few items. The battery checked out ok but seemed a little lower than normal. I keep the tester on it and turn the run switch on. The voltage dropped like a rock. Probably 2 tenths a volt every second. Turned my run switch off and the battery voltage crept right back up. Not sure what's going on. I know the taillight and headlight take power but the gauge was plummeting. I then decided to leave the meter hooked up and kick start the bike. As the bike was running the voltage started to drop again just not quite as fast. Bike ran fine until the voltage got down to about 6 volts. Then the stumble came and a few moments later as the voltage hit 5 volts the bike stalls out. While the bike is running I check amps off the stator and everything is good, voltage off the rectifier is just fine. So I think I am ok there. After it dies I tried to kick start the bike and nothing. Hook a battery charger up and it starts up like a champ. I pulled the charger off, shut the bike down real quick and then hit the e-start voltage plummets to like 4 volts. So I decided to leave the bike on the charger for 15 minutes just to have a little bit of surface charge because with the bike now shut off including the run switch the battery only came up to about 10.6 volts. Now 15 minutes goes by and I go out into the garage to see what is up. I pulled the charger and checked voltage 12.6V. Turn the bike to run and voltage just every so lightly drops down to about 12.4V. I bump the e-start and it fires right off. I check the voltage now at the battery and its back up to 12.6V. I feed the bike a little throttle and voltage jumps up to 13.4 volts. So now I am confused. I check the amps at the stator and voltage at rectifier and we are still good. Mind you I have done zero riding between my findings. Just run time in idle in the garage.

 

Any thoughts, guesses, or opinions on what to do???

 

Thanks, Chris



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 15, 2016 - 03:46 PM


To anyone reading this. I haven't seen all that thumpertalk has to offer. Would there be a better location to put this thread where more members might see this or have suggestions. I don't think this is a WR450F only type of problem. I just started here because that is the type of bike I have...

 

Thanks



  • Krannie McKranface
36,164 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted May 15, 2016 - 04:22 PM


 

 

So I pulled out my meter and checked a few items. The battery checked out ok but seemed a little lower than normal. I keep the tester on it and turn the run switch on. The voltage dropped like a rock. Probably 2 tenths a volt every second. Turned my run switch off and the battery voltage crept right back up. Not sure what's going on. I know the taillight and headlight take power but the gauge was plummeting. I then decided to leave the meter hooked up and kick start the bike. As the bike was running the voltage started to drop again just not quite as fast. Bike ran fine until the voltage got down to about 6 volts. Then the stumble came and a few moments later as the voltage hit 5 volts the bike stalls out. While the bike is running I check amps off the stator and everything is good, voltage off the rectifier is just fine. So I think I am ok there. After it dies I tried to kick start the bike and nothing. Hook a battery charger up and it starts up like a champ. I pulled the charger off, shut the bike down real quick and then hit the e-start voltage plummets to like 4 volts. So I decided to leave the bike on the charger for 15 minutes just to have a little bit of surface charge because with the bike now shut off including the run switch the battery only came up to about 10.6 volts. Now 15 minutes goes by and I go out into the garage to see what is up. I pulled the charger and checked voltage 12.6V. Turn the bike to run and voltage just every so lightly drops down to about 12.4V. I bump the e-start and it fires right off. I check the voltage now at the battery and its back up to 12.6V. I feed the bike a little throttle and voltage jumps up to 13.4 volts. So now I am confused. I check the amps at the stator and voltage at rectifier and we are still good. Mind you I have done zero riding between my findings. Just run time in idle in the garage.

 

Any thoughts, guesses, or opinions on what to do???

 

Thanks, Chris

 

By your description you proably have a parasitic short.

 

Pull the ground lead from the battery.

Put yout meter between the battery ground and the ground wire.

Turn on your ignition, lights off, not running.

 

If the battery voltage drops more than 5%, you have a parasitic drain: a device, a wire, or a ground that is shorting to some degree.

If it drops more or gradually more with time, you have a dead short on a circuit with no fuse.

 

Affix the meter leads in place to the wire and ground using zip ties.

 

Now, start uplugging things from the harness. If unplgging has no affect, plug it back in.

If it does have an affect you have isolated the specific issue of shorting....start looking down the harness to see what the problem is. 



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 17, 2016 - 05:25 PM


KRANNIE-

I can not get the bike to duplicate what it was doing. When I got back from my ride its was black and white on the voltage readings. Turn bike to on and bam major voltage drops! Turn bike off power shot back up. All I have done is wiggle wires and check at the points I noted in my posts above. Now I affixed the leads onto the battery to test and voltage drops less than half a volt when the bike is turned to the run position. I spent 15mins wiggling every wire and ground I could find and not once did my voltage fluctuate.....Now I don't have the problem so I can start unplugging to to find out. Any suggestions on testing parts that could be related to this?

 

Thanks, Chris



  • Krannie McKranface
36,164 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted May 17, 2016 - 05:37 PM


KRANNIE-

I can not get the bike to duplicate what it was doing. When I got back from my ride its was black and white on the voltage readings. Turn bike to on and bam major voltage drops! Turn bike off power shot back up. All I have done is wiggle wires and check at the points I noted in my posts above. Now I affixed the leads onto the battery to test and voltage drops less than half a volt when the bike is turned to the run position. I spent 15mins wiggling every wire and ground I could find and not once did my voltage fluctuate.....Now I don't have the problem so I can start unplugging to to find out. Any suggestions on testing parts that could be related to this?

 

Thanks, Chris

 

Have you physically unplugged any harness connections?

 

You will find lots of dirt and corrosion in them if you do, and you have to clean it out and put in dielectric grease.



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 18, 2016 - 07:42 AM


Negative, only one I was able to break free was a ground for something. I haven't successfully pulled any apart. The harnesses seem like they are glued together haha. I was not able to break any free by hand. So the pliers might have to come out.....My first thought was ah ha. Something shorted and this thing melted together. But every connection seems to be this way. And other than this odd symptom going on. Everything else is working just fine. So I doubt I had total failure and all the connections are fused together.



  • DrFeelGood

    TT Silver Member

712 posts
Location: Illinois
Garage View Garage

Posted May 18, 2016 - 08:46 AM


Those connectors can be a pain in the ass.  I went one season without pulling them apart and this winter they, as you described, seemed as though they were glued.  They will come apart.  Just don't put too much strain on the wires themselves.

 

And, as mentioned by Kran, use a liberal amount of dielectric grease on the connections.  I also lube the gaskets between the connectors with dielectric grease to keep them free of water and fine dirt.  

 

Check all the connectors and wires under the seat as well as the ones behind the number plate on the left side of the bike.

 

Also make sure the wiring bundles, where they enter the subframe under the seat, haven't worn from the zip-ties being too tight and are shorting to the frame.  Mine was showing a little wear this year so I added a few extra layers of electric tape just to be sure.



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 21, 2016 - 08:32 AM


DrFeelGood-
Thanks for the comment on getting those connectors apart. At first I thought I was just completely missing what to depress to get the connector apart, but there is only so many ways..... I am fearful of damaging the wires or connector while trying to separate. If I manage to get them apart I will be applying plenty of dielectrical grease for both reasons. Time has been limited and I hope to be able to spend a little time on the bike this weekend.

Just a thought. My battery has not lost one bit of charge sitting the entire week nor did it lose any voltage prior to riding last weekend when again the bike sat all week with no run time. So now I am thinking. At that point there was no loss of charge with ignition switch off. Does this help isolate some particular devices that only use juice with ignition on? My though is this might help me pinpoint a couple points to check..... As mentioned above when it was acting up, I was only losing charge with ignition on. The moment it went off the voltage jumped up. So yes it might be parasitic, but not 100% by definition on what I've read. Its more of an isolated parasitic problem (ignition must be on) instead of a parasitic draw no matter whether ignition is in or off. Just trying to narrow my search down as I am no mechanic. Any opinions or direction to give going off of this though process?

 

Thanks to all who are helping me out!


Edited by csrosenberry, May 21, 2016 - 10:21 AM.


  • bkoz

    TT Silver Member

658 posts
Location: British Columbia

Posted May 26, 2016 - 07:14 PM


Any updates, I have a '99 WR400F that is doing the same thing.



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted May 26, 2016 - 07:18 PM


Not Yet.

 

Hopefully I'll get a chance to mess with it this coming weekend.



  • DrDe4th

    TT Newbie

1 posts
Location: Utah

Posted June 08, 2016 - 12:50 PM


I have a 03 WR450 with the same problem.
I've pulled the carb, cleaned it out, new pilot and main jet, but no luck.
Any info or help would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted June 08, 2016 - 01:00 PM


Still haven't touched mine, work..............

 

Good Luck in your search!

 

Lets keep this thread going with any results!



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted June 12, 2016 - 08:31 AM


I cannot for the life of me get the bike to act up in the garage. But it's happened the last two times ive gone riding. Any other suggestions?

  • Krannie McKranface
36,164 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted June 12, 2016 - 01:38 PM


I cannot for the life of me get the bike to act up in the garage. But it's happened the last two times ive gone riding. Any other suggestions?

 

If needs a load to work against.

 

Sounds like electrical arcing.



  • csrosenberry

    TT Member

48 posts
Location: California

Posted June 18, 2016 - 06:55 AM


Krannie,

I 100% want to agree with your statement, but when it was acting up last. The bike didn't even have to be running. It would do it ignition on and not running as well as at idle, and with throttle with the RPMs up. I spent probably 3-4hrs last night with the bike striped down trying to shake, wiggle, move, pull, push, any and every electrical connection I could find. NOTHING casued the bike to give it the symptoms again. I went back to one of your original comments. "Loose plug cap/bad cap/bad plug". I am going to try and focus on this a bit.

 

I am going to pick up a new plug and throw that it in for the hell of it.

 

The ignition coil seemed like it had positive connection to the plug it takes what I felt was the appropriate effort to pop it on and off.

 

So I pulled out my manual, tester, and ignition coil. Let me state real quick I have a super basic tester and I am not familiar or educated on how to use it but I gave it a go. I tested the primary coil resistance and did not get the 0.08-0.10 as specified (but I don't know if I had things on the right settings). I then checked secondary coil resistance and that came in right smack in the middle of the specified range. If I leave the settings the same on the tester and re-check the primary, would that be a good indicator I might have a problem? Or is it a different setting I should be testing with?

 

Thanks for continuing to respond. I hope to find my problem........


Edited by csrosenberry, June 18, 2016 - 06:55 AM.





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