Adding a thermostat


63 replies to this topic
  • jpgolf14

Posted April 26, 2016 - 08:28 AM

#41

When you stated in an earlier post about covering a radiator I did that on another WR and it's a nuisance, really don't want to do that on my new ride.  I'm trying to find another style or brand of Tstat without the bleed holes as I feel this setup would work well with a Tstat that didn't leak by.

Agreed, this was for testing only.  Not an acceptable solution.



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 26, 2016 - 08:40 AM

#42

Ok, more tests performed.

 

After verifying my low temps with an IR gun, I decided to swap out my 90C thermostat with my 80C and see if it had the same issue.  Before doing that though, I thought more about the hole in the thermostat and wanted a visualization of how much coolant is passing through.  So i rigged up the thermo bob to exit into a drain pan instead of the radiator.  There is a pretty decent amount of flow through that hole.  See video below.  This was at about 100F coolant temp.  I then swapped to the other thermostat and saw the same flow. 

 

https://www.flickr.c.../perdoch/UZ8z92

 

I tried soldering the hole shut but I couldn't seem to get enough heat into the thermostat with a soldering iron and my questionable skills so I ended up JB welding it shut.  I will run some test tonight when I get home.  Looks promising to me.

 

 



  • toten

Posted April 26, 2016 - 08:56 AM

#43

I'd want to make sure coolant flow is pushing the JB Weld into the hole, rather than out of it. You probably thought of that, just making sure. 

 

I doubt a typical soldering iron would work well. I'd probably want a very small propane/butane torch. Then again, I'm not sure how well thermostats tolerate heat, so I'd test after.



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 26, 2016 - 09:15 AM

#44

 Then again, I'm not sure how well thermostats tolerate heat, so I'd test after.

Thats why I didn't use a torch.  We'll see tonight.



  • toten

Posted April 26, 2016 - 09:24 AM

#45

Many people might not expect it, but an intense but concentrated heat source often puts less heat into the object as a whole than a more moderate heat source, as there's much less on time. 

 

It's possible that a soldering gun would do the trick too. 

 

Has anyone contacted Watt-Man and asked whether thermostats are available without holes?



  • Macsplace

Posted April 26, 2016 - 09:51 AM

#46

Ok, more tests performed.

 

After verifying my low temps with an IR gun, I decided to swap out my 90C thermostat with my 80C and see if it had the same issue.  Before doing that though, I thought more about the hole in the thermostat and wanted a visualization of how much coolant is passing through.  So i rigged up the thermo bob to exit into a drain pan instead of the radiator.  There is a pretty decent amount of flow through that hole.  See video below.  This was at about 100F coolant temp.  I then swapped to the other thermostat and saw the same flow. 

 

https://www.flickr.c.../perdoch/UZ8z92

 

I tried soldering the hole shut but I couldn't seem to get enough heat into the thermostat with a soldering iron and my questionable skills so I ended up JB welding it shut.  I will run some test tonight when I get home.  Looks promising to me.

Awesome test video. That's what I thought was happening. My concern with soldering or plugging the stat holes is either the heat damaging the stat  or something coming loose in the cooling system. I have emailed Bill at Watt Man to find out if he has any different stats.



  • Macsplace

Posted April 26, 2016 - 09:53 AM

#47

Many people might not expect it, but an intense but concentrated heat source often puts less heat into the object as a whole than a more moderate heat source, as there's much less on time. 

 

It's possible that a soldering gun would do the trick too. 

 

Has anyone contacted Watt-Man and asked whether thermostats are available without holes?

I did email Watt Man, will let you guys know what he says.



  • zibbit u2

Posted April 26, 2016 - 11:32 AM

#48

I'm wondering if adding a Termo-Bob kit, and deleting the non-filler neck (LH) radiator might get these bikes up to operating temperature..  I'm looking at possibly trying this option out so I can clear up some space for a fuel pump catch tank and converting my 04 to FI.



  • toten

Posted April 26, 2016 - 11:48 AM

#49

I'd expect cutting cooling capacity in half (roughly) would lead to problems at lower speeds in warm weather. 



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 27, 2016 - 10:05 AM

#50

Well blocking off the bleed hole didn't help much.  I'm still running in the 130s at speed.  It did speed up my 60-200F warm up when idling.  See video below.  The amount of fluid is reduced somewhat, maybe half.  I am going to try my other termostat and see what happens.

 

https://www.flickr.c.../perdoch/H0VoF9



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  • Macsplace

Posted April 27, 2016 - 11:14 AM

#51

Received an email from Bill at Watt Man today and he indicated that the Tstats are probably leaking a small amount of coolant causing our over cooling issue. jpgolf14 has proven this with his test video. He also indicated the bleed holes need to be in the stats to help when re-filling the cooling system, maybe it also helps with air pockets. Bill is sending me another stat so I would suggest to anyone else having this issue to contact him.  


Edited by Macsplace, April 27, 2016 - 12:49 PM.


  • RockerYZWR

Posted April 27, 2016 - 05:40 PM

#52

One simpler option might be to make some sort of partial airflow block (piece of aluminum sheet or something - even cardboard just to prove the concept) for the left radiator to keep it hotter at speed (maybe even a full block on the left) and then run a fan on the right radiator to cool it down in traffic. Then check with an IR or other temp meter to verify they right amount of block. It would be a cheap experiment anyway. It's something people who live in super cold places do to get their engines to operating temps at all in the winter.

  • jpgolf14

Posted April 27, 2016 - 09:20 PM

#53

All right, daily check in.

 

Took my thermostat out and the JB Weld didn't hold.  So i used a mini torch and soldered the hole shut, but the heat caused the guts of the thermostat to rupture making the thermostat no longer functional.  It does not open now.

 

So I installed the extra 80C thermostat I had laying around.  It made no difference.  This basically eliminates the possibility of my thermostat being defective.

 

Next, I decided to reinstall the original thermostat that is no longer functional.  This thermostat cannot open, it is broken.  With this thermostat, I still saw no improvement.  The issue is not the thermostat opening or the bleed hole.  Obviously the engine is cooling regardless of the thermostat state.  My theory is it is cooling like an air cooled engine.

 

The only thing that ever showed an improvement for me was blocking the radiators which then blocks a lot of air flow that would pass over the engine.  If you look at the stock radiator shrouds, they force air through the radiators and then guide the air over the engine.  It would be interesting to try a shroud that ducted air through the radiators but then away from the engine.



  • Macsplace

Posted April 28, 2016 - 08:01 AM

#54

All right, daily check in.

 

Took my thermostat out and the JB Weld didn't hold.  So i used a mini torch and soldered the hole shut, but the heat caused the guts of the thermostat to rupture making the thermostat no longer functional.  It does not open now.

 

So I installed the extra 80C thermostat I had laying around.  It made no difference.  This basically eliminates the possibility of my thermostat being defective.

 

Next, I decided to reinstall the original thermostat that is no longer functional.  This thermostat cannot open, it is broken.  With this thermostat, I still saw no improvement.  The issue is not the thermostat opening or the bleed hole.  Obviously the engine is cooling regardless of the thermostat state.  My theory is it is cooling like an air cooled engine.

 

The only thing that ever showed an improvement for me was blocking the radiators which then blocks a lot of air flow that would pass over the engine.  If you look at the stock radiator shrouds, they force air through the radiators and then guide the air over the engine.  It would be interesting to try a shroud that ducted air through the radiators but then away from the engine.

After installing your damaged Tstat what was the outdoor ambient temp and engine temp during the test ride?



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 28, 2016 - 09:32 AM

#55

After installing your damaged Tstat what was the outdoor ambient temp and engine temp during the test ride?

Approx 60F ambient and 138F coolant temp.



  • mattf450f

Posted April 28, 2016 - 09:56 PM

#56

In Australia we get up to 45 degrees Celsius,witch melts the road and your thongs,wr still runs n dosnt puke coolent out ,Ktm however needs a thermo fan,smaller radiators is Ktm downfall

Edited by mattf450f, April 28, 2016 - 09:57 PM.


  • toten

Posted April 29, 2016 - 06:27 AM

#57

There are lots of parts of the US that get that hot (113F) reasonably often. Luckily I live somewhere that it doesn't get outrageously hot in the summer. 

 

Even streetbikes with factory fans get hot if you're stuck in stop and go traffic and it's that hot (as do the riders). It wouldn't surprise me if WRs have more radiator area than most streetbikes, plus the shrouds help direct more air. The lack of fan is the main reason they get hot in that kind of situation. A friend offered me one that he thinks should work, I just need to get around to picking it up and making it work. Even at 60F it can get pretty warm if you're barely moving.



  • jpgolf14

Posted May 13, 2016 - 02:00 PM

#58

On slightly unrelated news, I finally finished up my fan install last week.  Works great.  Turns on at 208 and off at 188.  Takes about 2 minutes to bring the temp down on a warm day idling in the sun.  The fan and bracket block a fair bit of the right radiator and as a result my 45mph cruise temps are up to around 150F.  Better but still not enough.  With the fan now, I am very confident in my low speed cooling.  I think i am going to try semi-permanently blocking the left radiator and see if I can get this thing running at the temp I want all the time.

 

I also recorded my highest by far fuel mileage on my first real tank of gas running at higher temps.  My previous best was 39mpg and now it is 47mpg.

 

Will post pics later.



  • toten

Posted May 13, 2016 - 02:35 PM

#59

What fan/fan thermostat did you use?



  • jpgolf14

Posted May 14, 2016 - 09:47 PM

#60

What fan/fan thermostat did you use?

See reply #7.  I believe due to the specifics of the fan switch installation, the switch trips 20 degrees higher than advertised.  I originally bought the 210F fan switch but it didn't switch on until 230F.  Then I bought the 180F switch and it turns on 205-208F.  Perfect.






 
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