Adding a thermostat


63 replies to this topic
  • GuyGraham

Posted April 22, 2016 - 07:24 AM

#21

Yes I'm in England

Temps where high teens °C

30 - 40 mile rides round the country lanes using all the power available but still I could never stop the emulsified oil in those breather pipes



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 22, 2016 - 08:06 AM

#22

No need to fit temp gauge the white emulsified oil indicated that it wasnt getting hot enough.
You cant tell the temp by how the bike runs. Modern syn oil needs temp rather than viscosity for its full protection
Its your bike.
If you are fine with running it on road without a stat then thats ok its your bike. I wasnt thats why i stopped using it on the road and put it back to its intented design use.

 

 Guy,

 

Some people don't want to learn or even consider the possibility that they may be wrong.  I think you are right, its their bike, do what they want.  All we can do is provide evidence which has been provided in spades here.

 

Facts:

- These bikes run 60 degrees F over ambient temp at speed w/o a thermostat.

- Most people don't ride where its 160 F ambient

- Moisture from oil is removed by it boiling out, to do this oil must reach 212 F.

- Oil typically runs about 10 degrees warmer than coolant once the engine is warmed up

- At lower temps, oil is thicker creating more drag and reducing efficiency and performance

- At lower temps, engine clearances are tighter leading to more engine wear and reduced efficiency and performance



  • toten

Posted April 22, 2016 - 11:17 AM

#23

You don't need to hit 212 to evaporate it. Running coolant temp at 180 works well, and water evaporates quickly enough at that temp to not be a problem. 140 is a different story (or 150, if oil = coolant + 10). 

 

Is Thermo-Bob the way to go or is there another option I should consider? Should I go with the 176 thermostat that comes with, or get something different?



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 22, 2016 - 11:55 AM

#24

You don't need to hit 212 to evaporate it. Running coolant temp at 180 works well, and water evaporates quickly enough at that temp to not be a problem. 140 is a different story (or 150, if oil = coolant + 10). 

 

Is Thermo-Bob the way to go or is there another option I should consider? Should I go with the 176 thermostat that comes with, or get something different?

True, but you are also creating water vapor.  So I guess the question would be at what temp does the evaporation equal the creation?  That I don't know.

 

I'm not sure what other options there are but the thermo-bob is super compact and light weight which is nice.  It also has a port for temperature sensor like the one on the Trail Tech.  I went with the 195 thermostat, but I think the 176 would work ok as well. 



  • toten

Posted April 22, 2016 - 12:02 PM

#25

180 is a pretty typical automotive thermostat temp which is why I used it. Very few cars that don't get used for short trips have problems with condensation in the oil. 

 

I just messaged them and will see what they suggest.



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 22, 2016 - 02:04 PM

#26

180 is a pretty typical automotive thermostat temp which is why I used it. Very few cars that don't get used for short trips have problems with condensation in the oil. 

 

I just messaged them and will see what they suggest.

Agreed.  I use a 180 in my old Camaro.  I'm not so sure you'll find a 180 on anything stock though?



  • toten

Posted April 22, 2016 - 07:08 PM

#27

I bought the kit today. He suggested a 185 or 195, so I'm getting one of each (and not a 175 as he usually includes). 

 

I don't know about what comes stock, my truck likes to sit right at 180 CHT but there isn't much stock on it. I thought 180 was pretty common but could be wrong.



  • Macsplace

Posted April 23, 2016 - 07:34 AM

#28

My 16 WR450 is on the road 45% of the time so I added the Thermo Bob kit and a Trail Tech gauge. The WRs cooling system is super efficient and when ambient temps are below 65 degrees the engine temp will still drop in the 140 to 160 range at speeds above 30 mph even with this kit. This is not a fault of the TB kit it just shows how efficient these bikes are. You indicated that you want to add a fan and it will be needed as these bikes heat up quickly in traffic and since the engine temp will be higher when you stop for a traffic light you will be closer to overheating with no fan.



  • stevethe

Posted April 23, 2016 - 07:53 AM

#29

My 16 WR450 is on the road 45% of the time so I added the Thermo Bob kit and a Trail Tech gauge. The WRs cooling system is super efficient and when ambient temps are below 65 degrees the engine temp will still drop in the 140 to 160 range at speeds above 30 mph even with this kit. This is not a fault of the TB kit it just shows how efficient these bikes are. You indicated that you want to add a fan and it will be needed as these bikes heat up quickly in traffic and since the engine temp will be higher when you stop for a traffic light you will be closer to overheating with no fan.


The 16's have more efficient radiators likely due to the different style radiators that have extra ribbing on them. Your trail tech temp. may also be off I know my outside temp reading on mine is not accurate.

  • Macsplace

Posted April 23, 2016 - 09:48 AM

#30

The 16's have more efficient radiators likely due to the different style radiators that have extra ribbing on them. Your trail tech temp. may also be off I know my outside temp reading on mine is not accurate.

I have a 07 WR that has the same over cooling issues as on the 16. Yes the 16s definitely have more efficient radiators and seems like over cooling is worse on it than on the 07 during street riding. I've checked calibration and the TTech gauge is very close to accurate on the 16 while the TTech gauge on the 07 is off by 8 degrees engine temp but accurate on ambient temp.



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  • jpgolf14

Posted April 25, 2016 - 08:03 AM

#31

I installed my thermo bob (TB) this weekend on my '03.  My trail tech temp sender is screwed into the TB housing.  Results as follows:

 

Before installing the TB, my bike would run at 120 F at 45mph on a 60 F day.

 

I installed the TB and my 45mph temp only rose to 128 F.

 

My next theory was that all the cold air blowing through the radiators was blowing over the TB and artificially skewing the temp reading down.  So I covered the TB with insulation and then noticed a 45mph temp of 132 F.

 

Next I blocked both radiators with cardboard.  I covered the radiator guard which sits about 1" off the radiator.  So they were not fully sealed off but fairly close.  My 45mph temp then rose to 172F.  Still not high enough but getting closer.

 

For those that have installed the TB you know that the thermostat bypass tees into the left radiator outlet.  I was hoping by just keeping the left radiator blocked and unblocking the right radiator the radiators wouldn't be contributing much to cooling of the bypassed coolant.  No such luck.  With just the left radiator blocked, my 45mph temp was 152F.

 

So now I am figuring what to do next.  I will probably try really sealing off the radiators and see what that gets me.  That is not a workable solution though, as I won't be bothered with installing and removing rad covers all the time.

 

I am wondering if cold air blowing over the engine is working to keep the engine cool, a la air cooled engines.  Thoughts?



  • toten

Posted April 25, 2016 - 08:37 AM

#32

It's odd that adding a thermostat did so little. Does the TB only stop flow to one radiator, or is it both?

 

Have you checked your temp sensor to make sure it's accurate? Boiling water is the easy way.



  • Macsplace

Posted April 25, 2016 - 10:44 AM

#33

It's odd that adding a thermostat did so little. Does the TB only stop flow to one radiator, or is it both?

 

Have you checked your temp sensor to make sure it's accurate? Boiling water is the easy way.

The TB kit stops flow to both radiators. The Trail Tech gauge is correct on my 16 but off on my 07 so you may want to check yours out. I have some of the same issues that you indicated. On 50 degree days I'm 140 to 160 degrees, last weekend was mid 70s and engine temp was 160 to 180.This was only while riding on the road, on trails I'm usually at 180. Don't think it's  a problem with the TB kit but rather the thermostat. I believe what is happening is a small amount of coolent  leaking through the thermostat and also the T'stats have bleed holes made in them letting some by, also as stated earlier these radiators are very efficient. Presently looking for another style of T'stat but no luck yet. When riding I can feel some warmth in the right Rad most of the time while the left one is cold until engine temp opens the stat at which point they are both hot.



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 25, 2016 - 12:16 PM

#34

It's odd that adding a thermostat did so little. Does the TB only stop flow to one radiator, or is it both?

 

Have you checked your temp sensor to make sure it's accurate? Boiling water is the easy way.

It is certainly in the neighborhood.  Reads correct ambient temp when the bike sits.  I will verify tonight with IR thermometer.



  • jpgolf14

Posted April 25, 2016 - 12:21 PM

#35

The TB kit stops flow to both radiators. The Trail Tech gauge is correct on my 16 but off on my 07 so you may want to check yours out. I have some of the same issues that you indicated. On 50 degree days I'm 140 to 160 degrees, last weekend was mid 70s and engine temp was 160 to 180.This was only while riding on the road, on trails I'm usually at 180. Don't think it's  a problem with the TB kit but rather the thermostat. I believe what is happening is a small amount of coolent  leaking through the thermostat and also the T'stats have bleed holes made in them letting some by, also as stated earlier these radiators are very efficient. Presently looking for another style of T'stat but no luck yet. When riding I can feel some warmth in the right Rad most of the time while the left one is cold until engine temp opens the stat at which point they are both hot.

 

Yes I would not be surprised if the small hole in the thermostat is contributing.  My bypass hose is certainly hotter than the rads, but the rads are getting some heat as well.



  • toten

Posted April 25, 2016 - 02:20 PM

#36

Got the setup today (ordered friday). It's the cutest little thermostat I've ever seen. 

 

I ordered a 185 and a 195 (he was willing to sub the default 175 for something else). Both of them are factory marked 90C (which is 194F), one of them has that crossed out and 185 written below it (with a hand engraver). I think I'll check them before I install it. The spring coil looks different on the two, so I suppose he did some sort of modification. 



  • Macsplace

Posted April 25, 2016 - 03:12 PM

#37

Yes I would not be surprised if the small hole in the thermostat is contributing.  My bypass hose is certainly hotter than the rads, but the rads are getting some heat as well.

Same here bypass hose is plenty hot. When you stated in an earlier post about covering a radiator I did that on another WR and it's a nuisance, really don't want to do that on my new ride.  I'm trying to find another style or brand of Tstat without the bleed holes as I feel this setup would work well with a Tstat that didn't leak by.


Edited by Macsplace, April 25, 2016 - 03:37 PM.


  • Macsplace

Posted April 25, 2016 - 03:34 PM

#38

Got the setup today (ordered friday). It's the cutest little thermostat I've ever seen. 

 

I ordered a 185 and a 195 (he was willing to sub the default 175 for something else). Both of them are factory marked 90C (which is 194F), one of them has that crossed out and 185 written below it (with a hand engraver). I think I'll check them before I install it. The spring coil looks different on the two, so I suppose he did some sort of modification. 

Interesting, I ordered an extra 165 and it also has 90C scratched out.



  • toten

Posted April 25, 2016 - 04:33 PM

#39

It wouldn't be too hard to solder up the hole, but I imagine you need some flow through the thermostat so that it'll get warm when the coolant does. Then again, I'm not a cooling system expert. Given the size of the hole vs the size of the bypass, I sure wouldn't expect the coolant flow through the radiators to be significant. 

 

If some flow is important, you could always try soldering up the hole and then drilling a smaller one. 

 

For testing, it might be nice to put a few temp gauges on the bike: one where it exits the engine, one where it exits the radiator, one where it enters the engine, and then a CHT gauge if you could figure out somewhere reasonable to put it. I know I've seen gauges that go around the spark plug. That said, while it would be interesting, and I'd certainly like to see the data, I don't feel like doing it to my bike. 



  • Pancho_Jsy

Posted April 26, 2016 - 01:07 AM

#40

An aftermarket part that doesn't work as intended, now there's a surprise :lol:

 

I've seen a few bikes fitted with OEM inline thermostats that don't run a bypass hose. Maybe these would be worth a go? I think the KTM 125exc and Husqvarna SMS 125s run them.






 
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