Fuel questions


12 replies to this topic
  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 23, 2016 - 10:23 AM

#1

My owners manual for my '14 450F says don't use any leaded fuel. Previous owner gave me a big can of U4.4 that he said he would mix in with regular gas when hot outside.

Is it safe to use the 4.4 though the manual says no lead?

I have been able to get pump non-ethanol 93 easily, but now all we get in non-eth is 90. I was thinking I would mix a gallon or so of 4.4 with 4 gals of 90 to get a better octane rating. I really don't want to run ethanol in my bikes.

  • Turbolife

Posted March 23, 2016 - 12:01 PM

#2

If the Manual says not to then I wouldn't. I know that leaded gasoline for modern vehicles is really bad because it will ruin the catalytic converters and kill your O2 sensors which will then kill your gas mileage. I'm sure it isn't ideal for our bikes either. I'm sure someone else can chime in and give you a definitive answer.

  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 23, 2016 - 12:11 PM

#3

If the Manual says not to then I wouldn't. I know that leaded gasoline for modern vehicles is really bad because it will ruin the catalytic converters and kill your O2 sensors which will then kill your gas mileage. I'm sure it isn't ideal for our bikes either. I'm sure someone else can chime in and give you a definitive answer.

Yeah, it's strange because VP U4.4 is, according to their website, designed for both 2 and 4 strokes.



  • SAthump

Posted March 23, 2016 - 01:25 PM

#4

There's nothing about your bike that will be damaged by leaded fuel

Pumping out that sweet tasting neurotoxin to the kiddos taking in deep breaths while riding behind you, though!

  • WYO522

Posted March 24, 2016 - 10:20 AM

#5

VP U4.4 is full of Ethanol. So, if you are not wanting ethanol in your bike then stay away from it. Ethanol is used to carry the oxygen in "oxygenated" fuels. that being said, I run U4.4 in my race bikes and love it. I treat the fuel with Enzyme Fuel Treatment. It seems to keep the ethanol from gumming things up too bad. I do not leave it in my bikes more the a month though.



  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 24, 2016 - 02:21 PM

#6

VP U4.4 is full of Ethanol. So, if you are not wanting ethanol in your bike then stay away from it. Ethanol is used to carry the oxygen in "oxygenated" fuels. that being said, I run U4.4 in my race bikes and love it. I treat the fuel with Enzyme Fuel Treatment. It seems to keep the ethanol from gumming things up too bad. I do not leave it in my bikes more the a month though.


Really?? I had no idea it had ethanol in it. So people pay all that extra money for "special" gas that has ethanol in it??

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  • grayracer513

Posted March 25, 2016 - 06:39 AM

#7

U4.4 contains no ethanol. 

 

The oxygenate compound used is methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), which is the compound the state of California ordered put into gasolines at the pump, and then ordered removed because it was contaminating ground water, just like the oil industry told them it would.

 

It's also insanely expensive at $16/gallon, and requires re-jetting in order to use it because of the high oxygen content.  That means that there's no practical way of switching back and forth between that and pump gas without changing the jets.  EFI bikes are simpler; just remap them.  But that needs to be done each time you change fuels.

 

Lead from the fuel will deposit itself in the ash and carbon residue from combustion, and can be detrimental to valve life.  An engine that really has an excuse to run the stuff usually gets run so hard and torn down often enough that significant carbon accumulation isn't a major issue.



  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 25, 2016 - 06:46 AM

#8

U4.4 contains no ethanol.

The oxygenate compound used is methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), which is the compound the state of California ordered put into gasolines at the pump, and then ordered removed because it was contaminating ground water, just like the oil industry told them it would.

It's also insanely expensive at $16/gallon, and requires re-jetting in order to use it because of the high oxygen content. That means that there's no practical way of switching back and forth between that and pump gas without changing the jets. EFI bikes are simpler; just remap them. But that needs to be done each time you change fuels.

Lead from the fuel will deposit itself in the ash and carbon residue from combustion, and can be detrimental to valve life. An engine that really has an excuse to run the stuff usually gets run so hard and torn down often enough that significant carbon accumulation isn't a major issue.


So would you recommend just running the 90 non-eth pump that I can get now locally straight?? I wish the supply of gas around me would stabilize so I could count on the same gas all the time.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 25, 2016 - 07:03 AM

#9

Pump gas labeled 90 octane or higher in the US or Canada is equivalent to the required 95 Research Octane required by the manual.  A stock or slightly modded YZ450F doesn't need more than that. 

 

Pump gas containing less than 15% ethanol is not particularly hazardous to any part of the fuel system.

 

There are two octane rating methods, Research and Motor.  The Research (RON) method produces higher numbers and sounds more impressive, but isn't a very realistic comparison to real world high performance engines.  The Motor (MON) method is much more representative of actual needs, but produces lower numbers for any given level of detonation resistance, so fuel blenders prefer to post Research numbers.  The 95 the manual recommends is an RON value, and is about the same as 86-87 MON.  In the US, the law requires posting the average of the two.  You'll see a sticker on the pump stating the octane rating as "AKI" and "R+M/2".



  • WYO522

Posted March 25, 2016 - 10:09 AM

#10

Sorry for the misinformation. I could swear I read somewhere in a fuel data sheet that U4.4 had a high % of ethanol in it, but I cant find it now. Thanks to grayracer for clearing up any confusion I caused :thumbsup:



  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 25, 2016 - 12:20 PM

#11

Thanks gr!

  • grayracer513

Posted March 25, 2016 - 03:48 PM

#12

Sorry for the misinformation. I could swear I read somewhere in a fuel data sheet that U4.4 had a high % of ethanol in it, but I cant find it now. Thanks to grayracer for clearing up any confusion I caused :thumbsup:

 

Some place or other, I have a list of the contents of U4.  It could take forever to find though.  The thing is that VP is race fuel, and race fuel differs from pump fuel mostly in terms of the energy content of the components used.  In fact, a lot of them have the same components as pump gas, just in different proportions, with a couple extra additives. 

 

Knowing that, understand that ethanol has an extremely low energy yield compared with MTBE.  Why would VP use ethanol?  Other than to perk up the punch bowl.



  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 25, 2016 - 03:57 PM

#13

Gray, safe to burn up these gallons of 4.4 in my YZ295 2 stroke? I normally mix 1 gallon of pump race fuel to 4 gallons of pump 93 in that bike. I would replace the pump race gas with the 4.4 to use it up





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