Does anyone run valvoline 10w40 atv oil in their yz450f?


35 replies to this topic
  • colerlone

Posted March 01, 2016 - 04:36 PM

#1

I have an 08 n it says in the manual that Canadian users can use 10w40 its jsa m. It's just cheap like 4 a quart n at walmart so it's convenient to pick up

  • grayracer513

Posted March 01, 2016 - 04:49 PM

#2

"Cheap automotive oil" usually means it's OK for the engine as long as it is NOT labeled "API Energy Conserving II".  Such labeling indicates the presence of friction reducers that can affect the clutch adversely.  JASO MA/MA2 compliance is what you would look for on the label on that score

 

The problem with oils not correctly blended for transmission service is that the shear forces at work in a gear box can shred the viscosity improvement additives that allow the light base oils used in multi-grade blends to maintain their viscosity at high temperatures, and in an alarmingly short time.  It is more expensive to blend good gear oils in multi-grades than it is engine oils, and most automotive blenders just don't see a need for that to serve their target market.  

 

Many such oils will go from being 10w-40's to more like 10w-25 in as little as 2 hours or less.  If you use an oil not blended to be used in a motorcycle engine that shares oil with a transmission, and you have no lab results on a used sample to go by, you are advised to change the oil after each ride day to avoid viscosity loss.  



  • AFelix

Posted March 02, 2016 - 04:34 PM

#3

I run the Valvoline 4T 10-40 in my 400, and I run the Valvoline 4T 20-50 in my street bike. I have tried every synthetic there is, and this dino oil gives me best shifts of them all.



  • colerlone

Posted March 02, 2016 - 04:39 PM

#4

The one i buy isn't the 4t it's just regular oil it's a little less than 4 a quart

  • YHGEORGE

Posted March 03, 2016 - 05:16 PM

#5

"Cheap automotive oil" usually means it's OK for the engine as long as it is NOT labeled "API Energy Conserving II".  Such labeling indicates the presence of friction reducers that can affect the clutch adversely.  JASO MA/MA2 compliance is what you would look for on the label on that score

 

The problem with oils not correctly blended for transmission service is that the shear forces at work in a gear box can shred the viscosity improvement additives that allow the light base oils used in multi-grade blends to maintain their viscosity at high temperatures, and in an alarmingly short time.  It is more expensive to blend good gear oils in multi-grades than it is engine oils, and most automotive blenders just don't see a need for that to serve their target market.  

 

Many such oils will go from being 10w-40's to more like 10w-25 in as little as 2 hours or less.  If you use an oil not blended to be used in a motorcycle engine that shares oil with a transmission, and you have no lab results on a used sample to go by, you are advised to change the oil after each ride day to avoid viscosity loss.  

Re-read the title. I use the oil in question and it is very excellent.


Edited by YHGEORGE, March 03, 2016 - 05:17 PM.


  • colerlone

Posted March 03, 2016 - 05:21 PM

#6

It says it is atv oil good forwet clutches and jasa ma

  • yz250f 78

Posted March 03, 2016 - 06:58 PM

#7

I did not like it because it would sludge or leave a sludge after periodically changing every other ride.
So I'm gonna say it was breaking down very quickly.
We run rotella triple 15w40

  • colerlone

Posted March 03, 2016 - 07:11 PM

#8

How does running diesel oil work with the wet clutch? I see people on here do it all the time. What i think is crazy is the service manual says to change tbe oil every 500 miles, which is also the checking valves interval

  • knuckleduster271

Posted March 03, 2016 - 07:17 PM

#9

How does running diesel oil work with the wet clutch? I see people on here do it all the time. What i think is crazy is the service manual says to change tbe oil every 500 miles, which is also the checking valves interval

Ive been running rotella in my wr for a long time.
I had 7k mostly street miles on my factory clutch before i did a rebuild and it was was still fine.

Edited by knuckleduster271, March 03, 2016 - 07:18 PM.


  • colerlone

Posted March 03, 2016 - 07:26 PM

#10

I have a rekluse z start i wonder if that matters

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  • RockerYZWR

Posted March 03, 2016 - 08:19 PM

#11

There should be a sticky in this forum that says "If it's JASO-MA, it's fine - look on the back of the bottle. Also, change it frequently."
I have also run the Valvoline motorcycle oil before because it was on sale, but my go-to that I keep gallons of on hand, stock up on whenever it's on sale, and run in my WR450, YZ two-stroke gear box, lawn mowers, pressure washer, and even my old Dodge muscle car is:
s1200_is_it.jpg

Sorry, I know this is about Valvoline ATV oil. It's fine, too. Just probably more expensive than oil should be.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 04, 2016 - 07:50 AM

#12

You can say what you want to, and believe what you choose, but until you have a used oil analysis of a sample of your oil from your bike taken at your oil change interval, you don't really know whether the oil is holding up or not. 

 

There are a number of factors involved in oil longevity, but only some really apply to a YZ450, just because of the nature of the beast and how it gets used.  The oil's ability to tolerate fuel contamination and heat, as well as the quality of the anti-wear package, are somewhat more important here than in the automotive world, but primarily, the problem is with holding the viscosity the oil is rated at for a practical length of time.  

 

Rotella used to be a really good bad example.  It's been upgraded, according to UOA's I've seen in the last couple of years, but if you go back no more than 4 or 5 years, things were different.  It has always been a very good engine oil, but the transmission would beat the stuff up so badly that a YZ250F could take it down to SAE 25 in two hours time, by actual test.  By contrast, my own UOA's of Mobil1 Racing 4T or Amsoil MCF have all come back showing the oil still at its rated grade after as many as 11 hours.  

 

The point is that JASO MA covers clutch compatibility and anti-wear/boundary lube standards, but failed to really address the shear stability issue that arises out of gearbox use, so because there isn't a discreet labeling certification that addresses that, you can't tell by the label.  The only oils I know of that are any different are Amsoil MCF and MCV, which carry the API GL-1 labeling, indicating it's suitability for use as a light gear lube.  Otherwise, only a published, trustworthy lab analysis or your own UOA's are the only way to know.  Absent that, change your oil more often than you think you should have to. 

 

Almost any reasonably good oil that meets the standards set out in the manual will "work", but when you're using a quart at a time, the difference between $4 and $10 doesn't seem like much compared to the price and inconvenience of a rebuild.  The oil in question may be excellent in all respects, but frankly, Valvoline doesn't have a stellar reputation in this market.  All I'm saying is to do your own testing, or change it out frequently.

 

As far as how clean it keeps the interior of the engine, here's mine after over 300 hours of 6-10 hour oil changes using Amsoil MCF and Mobil1 Racing 4T.  The oil in the cases is the used oil from the engine.

 

 

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  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 04, 2016 - 07:59 AM

#13

I have a rekluse z start i wonder if that matters

I've run Rotella with z-starts for several years and zero problems.  I change it out every couple of rides, which problem equates to 7-10 hours or so.



  • colerlone

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:01 AM

#14

Do u use the amsoil as an additive?

  • grayracer513

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:04 AM

#15

A Rekluse will behave a little differently with some oils that with most others.  It's not a matter of slipping under a load, but of how smoothly the clutch acts when partially engaged, as on take off, or while crawling through technical sections.  Some oils will cause the clutch to be grabby and jerky, but otherwise, any decent non-ECII oil will generally be OK on that particular point. 


Do u use the amsoil as an additive?

 

No, it's a motorcycle oil, not an additive.  



  • colerlone

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:07 AM

#16

It said both oils so i wasnt sure

  • grayracer513

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:16 AM

#17

It said both oils so i wasnt sure

 

I used Amsoil for a long time, but switched to Mobil1 after my son went into the Marine Corps.  That was because I was no longer using enough oil in a year's time to make the preferred customer program pencil out for me, and without that, Mobil1 Racing 4T was a net $2 less, and easier to find.  The two products are functional equals in virtually every performance category, so I switched in '09. 



  • colerlone

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:28 AM

#18

Why do some people say not to use synthetic something about a friction additive?

  • TN Dirt Rider

Posted March 04, 2016 - 08:57 AM

#19

Why do some people say not to use synthetic something about a friction additive?

If you use any oils that have a friction additive in your motorcycle gear box you are subject to experience clutch issues due to slippage....at least that is my understanding.



  • grayracer513

Posted March 04, 2016 - 09:30 AM

#20

All oils have friction reducers of one sort or other.  The specific thing you look for on the label is API Energy Conserving Level II, or simply, "EC II".  Those oils should be avoided because the additives used in them might cause the clutch to slip, but by and large, most such oils are too low in viscosity to be suitable for use in a YZ450 anyway.  Also avoid oils labeled JASO MB, as these are formulated for engines only, and have very high levels of friction reducers.

 

As far as synthetics go, any warning not to use them is really, really old information, and largely mythological in any event.  Such stuff comes from a general misunderstanding of what a synthetic oil is in the first place.  With natural petroleum oils, you start with crude oil and remove the dirt, fossilized cockroaches, and all of the other chemical components you don't want until you have what you do want left.  Depending on how well you refine it, there could still be some cockroach parts and other trace components floating around in the soup.  With true synthetics (and not all of them really are), you start with nothing but the chemical compounds and oil components you want and build the oil up without adding anything you don't want.  The basic lubricating components are nearly identical in both cases, just the path they took to get there is different, and the real synthetic never had any old bugs, or tar, or paraffins, or whatever else in it to be taken out in the first place.

 

There is actually one class of synthetic oils that are not really synthetic at all.  "Group III" oils are oils that are refined to a greater degree than most others.  The manufacturers argued successfully in court that the oil was so highly refined that it amounted to a synthesized product, and the court bought into it, so stuff like the old Castrol V-Syn was allowed to be labeled "synthetic" even though it's really not.

 

I haven't used anything other than high quality true full synthetics in any engine that I built commercially or owned personally since somewhere around 1980, including for break in purposes, and I have an impeccable record of success with that. The question of whether it's synthetic or not really has no bearing on clutch compatibility.







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