Big Gun or T-4???


29 replies to this topic
  • Rokatt88

Posted March 04, 2004 - 02:05 PM

#1

I've just decided that I want a full race exhaust. I currently have the stock headers & a White Bros E Series S bend. One of my ridin' budz has the Big Gun on his BRP and it looks good and he says it runs good too. Just to be different, I was thinking of the PC T-4. Any opinions one way or another?

  • qadsan

Posted March 04, 2004 - 02:34 PM

#2

Why not go for the gold and get the Moriwaki. Here's the link, but I understand the picture still shows a pre-production unit that has a longer cannister than what you'll get. The one I seen looked sweet and everyone I've talked to just loves their Moriwaki. I can't say the same for Big Gun and you may want to seach this forum for those comments from previous Big Gun owerns.

http://www.bigvalley...waki_XR650.html

I personally like the PCT4 over the Big Gun in terms of workmanship based on the last time I seen one, but the Moriwaki looks the best and it sounds/performs good too based on feedback from others.

  • Rokatt88

Posted March 04, 2004 - 02:55 PM

#3

Ooooh, that Moriwaki does look good. I just beat up my local dealer and am going to get a PCT4 for 4 Benjies! :)

Looks like it's tuna & crackers for lunch for the next couple of the months! :D

  • irondude

Posted March 04, 2004 - 04:12 PM

#4

BIG GUN SUX!

Mine rattled itself to pieces. They use rivets-where they should have screws. The fit is sketchy, at best. And when i called them to ask how to prevent blow-by-i got the major run around-twice.

I am not crazy about the performance of the T4 (dont even think of putting flimsy Ti on the BRP) - BUT its not a bad pipe. The Moriwaki has a great reputation. The Barnum pipe has the best performance i have found...but he is out of them right now!
I am running the stock pipe with the suppressor completely removed (just unbolt that end cap and adjust the carb). It runs BETTER then it did with the Big Gun!

  • msm650

Posted March 04, 2004 - 05:22 PM

#5

What's "blow-by"? I've got a Big Gun full system and becides being a pain in the arse to install, I've had no problems with it. I'd have to say it's more of a top-end pipe though as the middle of the powerband seems to have flattend a bit while the top has considerbly more pop now.

  • sunnymex

Posted March 04, 2004 - 06:59 PM

#6

If you go with the Moriwaki...ask for Jerry. He quoted me 399.99 for the full system. I think they give that price to racers. Tell him the guy in Cabo/Baja sent you and he will probably give you the same price.

I think I am going to get one of these systems. They seems pretty sweet and also from what I have heard have a good rep.

Good luck.

  • smashinz2002

Posted March 04, 2004 - 07:17 PM

#7

the Big Gun pipes are garbage!!! Mine completely fell apart, leaked, rivets loosened, silencer leaked at seams, not to mention it didnt fit right to begin with. Piece of junk waste of money.
The power was good, especially in the upper revs, but the low end and midrange suffered.
Now, I run the stock headers and I have the exhaust tip completely removed, and jetted a bit richer. THIS setup makes alot of power all over the place, but it's loud. Another good setup is to take the HRC tip and cut off the spark arrestor screen and baffle cap end piece. Running only the bell reducer part. This in itself gives better power than the big gun pipes did in my opinion.
Oh yeah, and keep in mind the bike has to be jetted correctly and be able to breathe freely through the intake to take advantage of any exhaust changes.

  • fourstrokin650

Posted March 04, 2004 - 07:39 PM

#8

I had an FMF Powerbomb and a powercore IV on my 01 BRP. Now I have an 02 with a stock header and an R4 pipe. I just got rid of a Power Core IV squared which they don't make anymore. The R4 has way better power. I was running the stock pipe with the powerup tip between aftermarket pipes and it worked much better than the fmf. The FMF was a megaphone style and the R4 is an S-bend. The megaphones are more for top end and the S-bends give good bottom end I believe, but the PowerCore IV Squared did not seem to flow better anywhere. I think the stock header will be better for bottom end than an aftermarket header. I am very happy with it. It's nice to know that honda did a good job with a stock pipe.

  • Rokatt88

Posted March 05, 2004 - 07:38 AM

#9

Thanks for all the Big Gun ammo for when I get together with my Big Gun Buds. Should we call them Pop Gun?? :D

I put the T-4 on last night. Went on the bike like a hot knife through butter! No problems at all. Looks good. Sounds good. :) With this set up I am looking for more poop at higher revs so there is a method to my madness. The stock headers with the E-Series S-Bend is a good torque set up. I'm going to double check my main jet. If I remember, it should be a 172. I have not vented the air filter side panel. Is that something I should consider? I have decided to mess with my CRF450R Buds and really show them the back side of my rig from a longer distance. HA! :D Next up: stage 2 cam. Bwaa Ha Ha Ha! :usa:

Oh yeah...That Moriwaki does appear to be a fine pipe. Sunny, thanks for the offer to drop your name for a good (great) price. It must be the full moon coming but, I just got a wild hair yesterday and HAD to Pipe it by last night.

I take it back! There is no method to my MADNESS! :usa: :D :D

  • qadsan

Posted March 05, 2004 - 08:06 AM

#10

have not vented the air filter side panel. Is that something I should consider?



YES! It's the lowest cost hosepower mod you can do out of any mod I can think of. The side panel cutout will increase the HP from ~4,250 RPM on up and improve the torque from ~3,750 RPM on up without sacraficing anything on the low side on a properly jetted bike from what I've seen in dyno printouts. If the bike isn't properly jetted, then you may increase the off idle hesitation slightly if you whack open the throttle from down low, but careful tuning can minimize this, but a pumper carb takes care of these types of issues completely. The negative issues from doing this mod is that you'll hear more intake noise, you'll be more subject to getting the filter wet since the side panel will be open and your filter will get dirtier quicker. It's a win win for me cause I've got two side covers, one modified and one stock incase I decide to take the pig in the mud, but I ride with the cut out side panel 99% of the time. Nike says...Just Do It :)

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  • Rokatt88

Posted March 08, 2004 - 09:04 AM

#11

:cool:Rokatt Reporting.

T-4 lives up to it's high rev claim! Really let's the beast breath!

Had an interesting thing happen...For this weekend I swapped out my Clarke for the stock tank to get back to slender. When I was pulling the petcock from the Clarke to the stocker I inspected the fuel filter but did not blow it out as it appeared to be fine. For the first ride I topped off the tank and off we went. Got about 42 miles in and hit reserve. Before hitting reserve I was sort of impressed with the higher revs but it seemed that I was hitting the rev limiter as it revved out (which didn't seem right as I wasn't "over" revving). Once I switched to reserve this sucker was on fire! The reserve position was getting more gas to the carb and this thing flat flew! Anybody else experience this? Should I modify my petcock or just blow out the screen filter? -or just leave it in the reserve setting?

I'm going to Lowes at lunch to get a rivet gun and some screen for my Hot Rod vents for the air cleaner cover. Man this is FUN! :) :D

  • Dave102429

Posted March 08, 2004 - 10:45 AM

#12

:cool:Rokatt Reporting.
I'm going to Lowes at lunch to get a rivet gun and some screen for my Hot Rod vents for the air cleaner cover. Man this is FUN!


For what it's worth, I bumped into one of today's off-road racing legends that rides for Team Honda. While I was talking to him, I told him I cut the team Honda air vents in my left side panel and I couldn't get the carb jetted right to get rid of that off-idle lean spot (that nearly wants to make the bike stall). He asked me if I had the HRC cam. I said no. He said that I shouldn't have cut the holes if I'm running the stock cam. My lesson for the day, stock cam = no holes, HRC cam = cut the holes. I think I agree. I taped up my vent holes and the bike runs great now. :)

Oh, and my Big Gun muffler rattled apart too.

  • J_T

Posted March 08, 2004 - 12:43 PM

#13

I must have a first generation Big Gun pipe b/c I know its a 2000 race series b/c it came with the bike when I bought it Jan 2001. The reason i'm thinking this is b/c I don't have any pop-rivits at all in the canister (or anywhere else obviously) I have allen screws.

Another reason I suspect an older design was I had planned for a ride in state park (w/out noise limits) so I ordered a spark arrestor and some fresh packing from them and they didn't fit...packing was about 4 inches too long and end-piece didn't butt up to the core.

Here comes the good news; when I called the company to let them know and to figure out how to send back they offered to send me all the parts w/out charge to make the new ones fit along with new packing b/c I crapped up what I had trying to get it to work. They were really helpful and in the past when I first bought it and was rejetting to my Alt they responded in several emails with suggestions and recommendations for tuning. The parts they sent were only about $35-$40 worth of stuff but it was good service and now it is solid with a clean solid billet end cap. The allen screws are tight all the way around. Oh yea the core inside was welded on solid as well and took me a while to cut it off then grind the welds down to tack weld the new core. I know it wasn't coming apart. There is no sooty leaking at the header-canister joint or at the engine-header joint so its solid.

Ok so I can't say anything about performance comparisons b/c it was on it when I bought it and it still runs great so haven't ever used anything else. I could certainly see why probably better for high rpm performance b/c it looks like if the spark arrestor screen is removed you could possibly roll a billiard ball all the way through its a huge free flowing piece it may be that way in all BRP pipes. (never really compared in size, I'm confident in my size :D and I like it) But I put the Edelbrock QS on and there was a big difference in low end snap probably due to the pump but I feel well rounded now.

Ok so all of this is mainly just to put a good word in for their service...I don't know if quality has decreased in the past or if it was the past and they are getting better :) but Im just letting my 2 cents worth say that I haven't found them being as junk as I am hearing.

I love the deep rumble of these big-bore 4 strokes, like a good set of pipes on built small block with a performance cam...not the high twangy of those rice-burners!

IMHO
JT

  • qadsan

Posted March 08, 2004 - 01:23 PM

#14

He said that I shouldn't have cut the holes if I'm running the stock cam


Our XR650R's have no off idle hesitation at all with the stock cam & holes cut in the side cover, but then we're not using the stock carb. Your bike is asking for more fuel, hence the initial lean spot. To minimize it takes careful tuning, which can be time consuming.

  • irondude

Posted March 09, 2004 - 03:09 PM

#15

Nothing personal, but IMHO your buddy that races for Honda is smoking crack...

Cut out airbox performance issues have nothing to do with the cam grind at all. Increased air flow-from an opened up airbox, ram air, turbocharger, whatever-- will improve any 4 stroke engine on earth. Your lawn mower, your power boat, your A1 Abrams Deisel Powered Tank, your Yamaha YZ450F, and your XR650R with or without the stage 2 cam...in fact i am thinking of doing an airbox mod on my F350 Deisel pick up truck....

I've never heard any truth from Team Honda Off Road. That BS about the frame not being strong enough for USD forks? Bullshite. That crap about the footpeg bolt not coming off-bullshite...that crap about the Keihin works fine if ya just jet it right--bullshite, that crap about the airbox is large enough, the hubs cant take Excell rims...it goes on and on.
HONDA employees will bullshite everyone on earth just to save themselves any embarrassment that they didnt get it right when they built the bike.

Ya need the stage 2 cam for the airbox mod? WRONG.

Dont believe everything ya read on the internet....

DITTO on the stock pipe with the suppressor totally removed from the can. Bullet proof, great performance, and ya just bolt the end back on for a nice quiet trail ride!

  • qadsan

Posted March 09, 2004 - 03:26 PM

#16

and ya just bolt the end back on for a nice quiet trail ride!


I wanted the Moriwaki, but recently found out it's rated at 102 dba...ouch :D. The few Moriwaki owners I've heard from have said their exhaust seems a little quieter than the HRC tip, but Moriwaki's own web site lists 102 dba for this pipe and that turned me off, especially with all the new sound regulations propogating throughout the country. It's nice being able to pop in the slightly modified stock exhaust tip to comply with sound requirements when necessary and it's also nice to be able to pop in the HRC tip for more performance. Too bad the stock pipe doesn't look badass like some pipes (gotta have the eye candy factor :)), but a nice ceramic coating might spruce it up. I also like the lack of maintenance (i.e. no packing) with the stock setup and it outperformed several leading exhaust systems based on the pipe shootout done a ways back. No matter how you slice it, the stock system can be made pretty decent, but that PCT4 that Rokatt88 scooped up sure looks tempting :D

  • irondude

Posted March 09, 2004 - 03:34 PM

#17

eye candy factor is a good point...maybe dip the stocker in a Tijuana chrome tank and get a custom aluminum heat guard hard anodized red? I saw on one of the chopper shows on TV that they are now lighly painting over chrome for a cool new look....glitter red paint over the chromed pipe with 'BRP' full red on the can? i gotta get a job..... :)

  • Rokatt88

Posted March 09, 2004 - 03:41 PM

#18

Man, do I feel like a ping pong ball! I went to Lowes and got all my air filter modification emplements of destruction, then came back from lunch and saw the post about NOT boaring holes, almost returned everything, and now it's OK to rip away...what to do, what to do?? .....Whats that ripping sound??? :D :) :D

Tanx Budz :D

  • TimBrp

Posted March 10, 2004 - 07:45 AM

#19

While we're on the pipe issue I was thinking of getting the White Brothers canister with the stock headers. I have the B53 Needle 3rd clip, 175main, 68s unifilter. If I put on that pipe should my jetting be ok? I think it's a bit rich now because I only have the drilled tip. I'm pretty sure I should be using a 172 main. What do you guys think?

  • Dave102429

Posted March 10, 2004 - 10:35 AM

#20

Hi TimBrp,

That setup sounds just like mine, except I have the T-4 silencer. I found a 172 main makes my spark plug a nice tan color, and a 175 makes the plug a shade darker and makes the exhaust tip a little sooty. Try both of them, one should work out well depending on your alt. and temp.


Hey Rokatt88,

If you do cut the holes, let me know the results. Maybe you'll have better luck than me. Unless you can find someone in your area with a modified side panel, then you can try it first before cutting yours.

Thanks,
Dave





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