Just tell me my new '04 450 doesn't need carb work.......


21 replies to this topic
  • ColdChillin

Posted March 04, 2004 - 04:53 AM

#1

I hope it is just my starting technique that is causing the problem, but my bike is WAY to hard to start when cold. After the thing has been ran it is pretty easy to start, but it still is the worst bike I've ever owned when it comes to cranking it.

When cold I've tried a few methods attempting to find out what the best method is.

1. No choke, no shot of gas. Bike will whirl until the battery starts dying out.

2. Choke it, no shot of gas. Kinda hit and miss here. Has worked on occassion, and at times get the same result as above.

3. Choke it, one quick shot of gas. Seems to be the best method, but it still whirls entirely to long. Has intermittent puffs and pops out the exhaust.

4. No choke, couple quick shots of fuel. About the same as throwing the dice at Harrah's, you never know what you're gonna get. Will it be 7,11, or the dreaded snake-eyes. :D

Once again, this is when the bike is cold. When the thing has been ran any at all it seems as if it will consistently crank about the same. Even then though I feel as if the starter is working overtime.

My carb is stock other than the modified throttle stop. I haven't turned the first screw on the thing, and really don't want to have to go real deep into the thing unless it is absolutely necessary. I will be happy with just an improvement at this point because I really want to ride the thing instead of wrench on it. I've only had the thing for two weeks, it ain't even dirty!!! :)

  • WR450F_RDR

Posted March 04, 2004 - 05:06 AM

#2

Well if it is like most 450's when they come from the dealer they are set up pretty lean. How does it run when you do get it started? The method I use to start mine is:
Choke on.
twist throttle fully 3-4 times before starting.
then start it.
whatever you do dont twist throttle while starting.
works well every time.

  • ETP

Posted March 04, 2004 - 05:20 AM

#3

What works for me is to turn the gas on. 2 to 3 twists of the throttle, then let it sit for a minute or two. This seems to prime the carb. Starts right up. Works well in cold weather. (yes we do see below 32F temps here in Southern California sometimes)
My jetting is pretty good too. Not lean.

  • ColdChillin

Posted March 04, 2004 - 05:44 AM

#4

Ok, I'll try giving it a few more shots of gas then. I've been going light on the juice because I've heard these things flood real easy. Any kind of adjustments I can make to improve the starting???

  • geo199

Posted March 04, 2004 - 06:02 AM

#5

my 03 is by far the most difficult bike i've ever had to start when cold. i've changed to richer jets including a 70 starter jet and i need to twist the throttle at least 10-12 times when cold before i have any hope of it starting. kick starting works much better when cold but it's still ridiculous how difficult it is to start what should be a modern high tech machine.

  • Mike_Hudson

Posted March 04, 2004 - 06:19 AM

#6

The best solution for cold weather is to install a bigger starter jet. I believe Indy_WR450 uses a 72, I have a 70. I think stock is 65. This will make a huge difference in cold starting. I just pull the choke and it fires up almost instantly. I typically use the choke if it is below 50 F. I just put my 70 in last fall, so I'm not sure if I will have to switch back to the 65 when it gets back up to 80 or 90. Hopefully, I can not choke it and keep the 70. Getting the right jetting will save you headaches in the long run. Let us know if you need help on switching out the jet.
Mike

  • ColdChillin

Posted March 04, 2004 - 06:37 AM

#7

Mike,
It sounds like you've got your bike starting up pretty good. I told the guys at the dealership how that I loved the bike, but was astonished at how hard the thing is to start when cold. I can't believe Yamaha doesn't remedy this. Their thumpers are notorious as being a pain to start. When I told some friends that I was thinking about getting either the YZ-F or WR they were like "Dude, I hope you enjoy kick-starting because you have a lot of it in your future"!!! That was one of the reasons I got the WR. I figured I'd let the pushbutton do the work. But geesh,.....I feel sorry for that little battery & starter. In all honesty each time I start the bike when it's cold I almost run the battery down. So sad.....

Now on to the starter jet. A pain to install? Carb have to be removed??? I actually think my bike came with some extra jets? It is a small plastic package with what appears to be jets. That, a manual, and a plug wrench is all that came with the bike.

  • ckulzer

Posted March 04, 2004 - 06:39 AM

#8

Gents,
I use a 72 all summer (Minnesota-up to 90 degrees F) long with no issues. The wrench at the local Yamaha shop told me that my bike was the best starting YZ/WR he had ever seen.

I was ice riding this winter and I thought about increasing the sj but never got to it.

Highly recommended.

Ride fast-take chances.

Chad

  • Mike_Hudson

Posted March 04, 2004 - 07:50 AM

#9

ColdChillin,
As with anything you need to get it set up correctly. I haven't used the kick starter since last fall when I put the 70 sj in. I ride a couple of times a month, and never use my battery tender. The extra jets you have are main jets and pilot jets, you'll need to order the starter jet. Do a search and you can find the part number. You don't need to take the carb completely off, but you will have to loosen both boots are rotate it to remove the bowl from the bottom. I wanted to be extra careful not to loose any parts so I took the carb off to change the SJ. That also gave me a chance to check the float level (although it was fine). Look in your manual at the carb diagram. It will show all of the jets. If I remember correctly, you have to remove a little plastic shroud to get access to the SJ. I also would recommend the JD kit, you'll find nothing but good comments on it.
Good luck,
Mike

  • JVP

Posted March 04, 2004 - 08:08 AM

#10

Once you get the jetting down it will start in the cold. But what do I know! It never gets cold in San Diego :)

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • ColdChillin

Posted March 04, 2004 - 10:12 AM

#11

Mike,
What are the benefits of the JD kit?

  • Mike_Hudson

Posted March 04, 2004 - 11:11 AM

#12

You'll get a lot of different opinions on this so I'll qualify my answer. First, I believe you can get a strong running bike using standard taper needles and jets. However, I am not an expert and do not have the knowledge that James Dean does. I saw two main benefits, it worked right out of the box using the instructions..I made one clip adjustment when I first installed it on the red needle. I played with the main jet, but you wouldn't have to. The transition through the mid range seems to be smoother with the JD needles. Again, this is compared to the stock needle. I am one to constantly tinker, so I changed to the blue needle and went up one size on the main when the weather started getting colder. With either my cold or warm weather setups I have easy starting, no bogs, no hesitation, no pops, just good crisp power. I don't know that its perfect, but I have a summer setup and a winter setup that work for me. I plan on just riding from now on cause thats the reason we have bikes in the first place :)

  • ColdChillin

Posted March 04, 2004 - 11:26 AM

#13

Point well taken. I may look into that in the very near future.

  • mtrablue

Posted March 04, 2004 - 03:02 PM

#14

here's the 72 sj number. 3tj-1494f-16. it will help. there is a small box in the "starting and break-in" section of you manual. it says to open the throttle three or four times before starting when it is below 41F. i was told by someone on-line that this was not in the '04 manual but i'm helping a freind set up an '04 and it is still there. it's in "gen info". i'm sure you have the same jetting as my buddie. you will have a 45 pilot and a 165 main. if you pull the insert out of the air box and switch the exhaust insert you may want a 48 pilot. the 165 main will probably be okay. love those jd needles. look, you can probably leave your bike stone stock and love it. figure out some of the quirks and have a blast. BUT this bike can go to another level with just a little tlc.

  • RichBaker

Posted March 04, 2004 - 05:50 PM

#15

Ok, it doesn't need carb work..... :)

  • ColdChillin

Posted March 05, 2004 - 02:40 AM

#16

here's the 72 sj number. 3tj-1494f-16. it will help. there is a small box in the "starting and break-in" section of you manual. it says to open the throttle three or four times before starting when it is below 41F. i was told by someone on-line that this was not in the '04 manual but i'm helping a freind set up an '04 and it is still there. it's in "gen info". i'm sure you have the same jetting as my buddie. you will have a 45 pilot and a 165 main. if you pull the insert out of the air box and switch the exhaust insert you may want a 48 pilot. the 165 main will probably be okay. love those jd needles. look, you can probably leave your bike stone stock and love it. figure out some of the quirks and have a blast. BUT this bike can go to another level with just a little tlc.


Well I for one cannot argue with that,....well said my man.



Rich, I oughta..........don't make me.........
That's funny dude!!!!! :)

  • Jim_Patterson

Posted March 05, 2004 - 07:43 AM

#17

I feel I have the answer to cold starting. It works on cr250 2 stroke, wr426, wr450, and drz.I'm in michigan, and I'm talking 20 to 35 degree weather starts. 1 Gas on (this helps a lot (HAHA) 2 Lean bike to left to fill carb bowl. 3 ignition on (WR450/DRZE) 4 Choke on, Blip the throttle 3 to 5 times and return throttle to full closed. Kick start only, for all but the DRZE which has a good battery and starter. Use a good firm kick. Kick 3 to 5 times if it doesn't start blip 3-4 times and kick up to 5 times. repeat until it starts.It will start. When it's cold the starter on a wr450 just won't turn enough RPM's to get it fired. Kicking it turns it over at higher RPM's. I expect to get flack on this, but give it a try.

  • N7SLC

Posted March 05, 2004 - 08:42 AM

#18

I feel I have the answer to cold starting. It works on cr250 2 stroke, wr426, wr450, and drz.I'm in michigan, and I'm talking 20 to 35 degree weather starts. 1 Gas on (this helps a lot (HAHA) 2 Lean bike to left to fill carb bowl. 3 ignition on (WR450/DRZE) 4 Choke on, Blip the throttle 3 to 5 times and return throttle to full closed. Kick start only, for all but the DRZE which has a good battery and starter. Use a good firm kick. Kick 3 to 5 times if it doesn't start blip 3-4 times and kick up to 5 times. repeat until it starts.It will start. When it's cold the starter on a wr450 just won't turn enough RPM's to get it fired. Kicking it turns it over at higher RPM's. I expect to get flack on this, but give it a try.


That's good advice.

I started my DRZ last night using a nearly identical
procedure (I don't lean my bike to fill the bowl) and it
fired right up. :)

Wrong forum (DUH) but is the Yamaha "Starter Jet" the same
one that Suzuki calls the "PAJ"? Seeing how the carbs are
nearly identical, is that the one just inside the intake of
the carb?

  • mtrablue

Posted March 05, 2004 - 08:57 AM

#19

no. the starter jet is the jet the choke uses to draw fuel from the float bowl. wr450's a known for being hard starters in cold weather, so going to a fat jet helps. when the weather warms up you have to go back to stock or you'll get to much fuel and may flood the bike.
it's located next to the main jet. not sure about the suzuki but if it uses the fcr carb it probably has one. it's in the float bowl along with the main jet and pilot jet.

  • ColdChillin

Posted March 05, 2004 - 09:19 AM

#20

I tried the choke on, & 3 to 4 twist of the throttle a little while ago when I was on my lunch break. The bike fired right up, better than it ever has when cold. Although it is 63* outside right now, I've never had the bike fire up so easily after sitting a few days. Looks like some of the advice I was given (not by any board members) was entirely WRONG!!! :) Plus I should of read my manual closer. Arrogance on my part, or stupidity, neither are a good trait to have. :D




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.