WR FI

Yamaha WR450F

30 replies to this topic
  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 01, 2016 - 10:10 AM

#1

Have a buddy here in Baja.Wants to buy 12 to 16 Wr450.Question now that the Wr Fi bikes out for 5 years.Can you tune,for slow Idle? I know in the past not possible. Thanks for any help on this.



  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 01, 2016 - 10:25 AM

#2

A slower idle may make it stall easier.  Is this for super tight singletrack?  If so I would go from a 50 to 52 tooth rear.  You know, a radiator fan would not be a bad idea on these as I boil over all the time on first gear stuff, but then again I like water based coolant and the standard pressure cap. 



  • stevethe

Posted January 01, 2016 - 01:07 PM

#3

Wait for the backwards head 16' WR450.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 01, 2016 - 02:23 PM

#4

Yes
You need the CO adjustment tool to change anything below 4k rpm
With that tool you can dial it in for any idle

  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 10:17 AM

#5

Yes
You need the CO adjustment tool to change anything below 4k rpm
With that tool you can dial it in for any idle

Ok Krannie,are you saying you can make it low Idle XR like.Wr12/15.



  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 10:26 AM

#6

A slower idle may make it stall easier.  Is this for super tight singletrack?  If so I would go from a 50 to 52 tooth rear.  You know, a radiator fan would not be a bad idea on these as I boil over all the time on first gear stuff, but then again I like water based coolant and the standard pressure cap. 

Ok OL we ride super hard slow single track,steep hill climbs.You know the type,no run/rocks ruts/dog paddle up.On all of our Wr450,(with carbs,super low idle) 14/50 gearing,with 13t too hard to control on trail.We use 100% coolent,no water.Never overheating problems,not ever.I know when I first posed this years ago,no fix for.Us wanting slow idle.So now we can have slow idle Fi.Could you talk more,about how to use tuner to do that.Thanks all .



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 02, 2016 - 10:52 AM

#7

Ok Krannie,are you saying you can make it low Idle XR like.Wr12/15.

 

 

The XR's idle speed is near 1000 rpm

The WR's idle speed is closer to 2000 rpm

 

You can't get it below 1700, I don't think, and still have it idle all time.

 

You are not riding either bike even close to idle.....even if you think you are.

If you are trying to ride in the lowest possible RPM, specifically for traction's sake, you need to refine the tuning of the WR.

I have done it successfully on the carb models......which are exactly the same as the FI model, accept for the fuel delivery system.

 

You are comparing two completely different motor types.

The XR's reciprocating mass is probably double, or more, than the WR's.....so it has an inheirently lower idle, and less stalling issues.....but that's about it's only advantage.

 

The WR motor will never tractor like an XR, until you change the 0-2000 CO levels, and change the mapping to be linear as possible without loosing any hp.

 

If you want the ultimate in low rpm control, install a 2007 YZ cam, port the head for much more flow, and re map to suit.



  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 11:09 AM

#8

The XR's idle speed is near 1000 rpm

The WR's idle speed is closer to 2000 rpm

 

You can't get it below 1700, I don't think, and still have it idle all time.

 

You are not riding either bike even close to idle.....even if you think you are.

If you are trying to ride in the lowest possible RPM, specifically for traction's sake, you need to refine the tuning of the WR.

I have done it successfully on the carb models......which are exactly the same as the FI model, accept for the fuel delivery system.

 

You are comparing two completely different motor types.

The XR's reciprocating mass is probably double, or more, than the WR's.....so it has an inheirently lower idle, and less stalling issues.....but that's about it's only advantage.

 

The WR motor will never tractor like an XR, until you change the 0-2000 CO levels, and change the mapping to be linear as possible without loosing any hp.

 

If you want the ultimate in low rpm control, install a 2007 YZ cam, port the head for much more flow, and re map to suit.

Thanks for clearing that up,Stevethe has his Carb Wrs that idle same as Xr.Where we like low Idle,is for going down.Steep trails with no run out at bottom.I would not enjoy riding my 450,like my Cr500.Going down hill with clutch in,not using engine braking.As far as tractor low end Xr like.Hand on the clutch,slight more speed,Wr works great.Thanks Krannie for info,and the way you explained it.



  • Jimmy boy

Posted January 02, 2016 - 11:27 AM

#9

Thanks for clearing that up,Stevethe has his Carb Wrs that idle same as Xr.Where we like low Idle,is for going down.Steep trails with no run out at bottom.I would not enjoy riding my 450,like my Cr500.Going down hill with clutch in,not using engine braking.As far as tractor low end Xr like.Hand on the clutch,slight more speed,Wr works great.Thanks Krannie for info,and the way you explained it.

Stevethe also has an unlimited supply of GREENIE bucks.

  • JDLowrance

Posted January 02, 2016 - 12:41 PM

#10

In order to achieve the tractability/anti-stall characteristics you are after (if I understand what you're asking for correctly) you should try a heavier flywheel weight.

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  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 06:51 PM

#11

Zero problems with Tractability/zero problems with stalling.You missed my post.



  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 02, 2016 - 07:17 PM

#12

Ok OL we ride super hard slow single track,steep hill climbs.You know the type,no run/rocks ruts/dog paddle up.On all of our Wr450,(with carbs,super low idle) 14/50 gearing,with 13t too hard to control on trail.We use 100% coolent,no water.Never overheating problems,not ever.I know when I first posed this years ago,no fix for.Us wanting slow idle.So now we can have slow idle Fi.Could you talk more,about how to use tuner to do that.Thanks all .

I know you do some pretty gnarly stuff BTR so I'm not sure I understand why you would want 14/50 gearing for that.  Maybe I'm missing the point of what you are trying to accomplish, but it seems to me that lower gearing would give you a lower crawl speed.  On the newer F.I. WRs if that makes it too hard to control you can still soften the power a bit with the programmer by retarding the ignition some and playing around with the fuel map.  I would not want my gearing any taller than 13/50 for the way I like to use 1st gear and I know the stuff you ride is more difficult than what I do.    I've played around with a number of different maps, most all of them tamer than stock and my bike is a pussycat in the slow speed stuff. 

 

I will say though that I turned down the idle by mistake a few weeks back and it made my bike an absolute bitch to start.   As Krannie said, these WRs seem to like a lot more idle than XRs and they most definitely have lighter flywheels, which makes them seem to work better with that higher idle.  I had an '08 WR and although it ran very strong, I like the fuel injected WR better for the slower stuff. 



  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 07:37 PM

#13

I know you do some pretty gnarly stuff BTR so I'm not sure I understand why you would want 14/50 gearing for that.  Maybe I'm missing the point of what you are trying to accomplish, but it seems to me that lower gearing would give you a lower crawl speed.  On the newer F.I. WRs if that makes it too hard to control you can still soften the power a bit with the programmer by retarding the ignition some and playing around with the fuel map.  I would not want my gearing any taller than 13/50 for the way I like to use 1st gear and I know the stuff you ride is more difficult than what I do.    I've played around with a number of different maps, most all of them tamer than stock and my bike is a pussycat in the slow speed stuff. 

 

I will say though that I turned down the idle by mistake a few weeks back and it made my bike an absolute bitch to start.   As Krannie said, these WRs seem to like a lot more idle than XRs and they most definitely have lighter flywheels, which makes them seem to work better with that higher idle.  I had an '08 WR and although it ran very strong, I like the fuel injected WR better for the slower stuff. 

I hear you.Here is why we Like 07/11 wr450 with 14t on front (13t stock). On hard trail,like side of mountain,off camber.With the 13t way too responsive.Slide off side,with 14t takes the hit out it works perfect.Also as you know in Baja,long 3/6 day ride.Low gearing sucks the gas/oil/too slow on dirt roads to get to trails.So Win Win with taller gear.No complain  about crawl speed.Have few buddys here would like to upgrade there older 450s.Get the Fi,we have all rode the 450FI love it.Hate the hi Idle,for riding we do.  



  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 02, 2016 - 07:51 PM

#14

I hear you.Here is why we Like 07/11 wr450 with 14t on front (13t stock). On hard trail,like side of mountain,off camber.With the 13t way too responsive.Slide off side,with 14t takes the hit out it works perfect.Also as you know in Baja,long 3/6 day ride.Low gearing sucks the gas/oil/too slow on dirt roads to get to trails.So Win Win with taller gear.No complain  about crawl speed.Have few buddys here would like to upgrade there older 450s.Get the Fi,we have all rode the 450FI love it.Hate the hi Idle,for riding we do.  

Maybe a rekluse would be an option as it tends to soften the initial power a bit.  For me 13/50 works because the few times I'm in baja I would rather enjoy the slow speed stuff more and take my time on the dirt roads and highways.  You live there so you understand how norte gringos like me like to take my time and enjoy the scenery.



  • chu

Posted January 02, 2016 - 07:55 PM

#15

I still say a 6th gear would have been nice



  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 08:04 PM

#16

Maybe a rekluse would be an option as it tends to soften the initial power a bit.  For me 13/50 works because the few times I'm in baja I would rather enjoy the slow speed stuff more and take my time on the dirt roads and highways.  You live there so you understand how norte gringos like me like to take my time and enjoy the scenery.

We are same as you,We just like.On boring dirt road,get it over with.Get to the good stuff.



  • Baja trail Rider

Posted January 02, 2016 - 08:06 PM

#17

I still say a 6th gear would have been nice

No 6th gear needed,plenty top speed,with hi gear.We are off post.How to make FI bike Idle slow.Is only thing Im asking.



  • mch

Posted January 02, 2016 - 08:40 PM

#18

I remember reading some guy saying that the WR idles too high for baja and a lot of people said the guy was crazy.  I can assure you that I have no problems with slow technical stuff with stock gearing on my 12 Wr and with a stock clutch in the Las Vegas / surrounding area.  I mean, I figure I can ride 2mph with the clutch fully engaged at whatever the idle is... It pretty much won't stall until the wheel stops.  Most nasty uphills, I just keep it in 1st and tractor up the hill.



  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted January 02, 2016 - 10:12 PM

#19

I remember reading some guy saying that the WR idles too high for baja and a lot of people said the guy was crazy.  I can assure you that I have no problems with slow technical stuff with stock gearing on my 12 Wr and with a stock clutch in the Las Vegas / surrounding area.  I mean, I figure I can ride 2mph with the clutch fully engaged at whatever the idle is... It pretty much won't stall until the wheel stops.  Most nasty uphills, I just keep it in 1st and tractor up the hill.

Funny you say that about stalling.  When I first got my bike, with the stock map (all zeros) I was goofing around in first gear on a hard packed trail that had just a little bit of loose dirt on top and I tried going on idle as slow as I could, gradually adding more and more front brake.  Eventually I got to the point where the front wheel was almost completely stopped and the rear wheel was spinning at idle, still digging for traction.  I have jacked with the map so much now that I don't know if it could still do that with my current map.  These bikes really don't stall very easily from my experience.



  • chu

Posted January 03, 2016 - 05:00 AM

#20

No 6th gear needed,plenty top speed,with hi gear.We are off post.How to make FI bike Idle slow.Is only thing Im asking.

Turn the knob clockwise.  I used to set mine a few hundred rpms lower than spec.  It still sounded healthy.  I didn't stall too often.  It's not going to idle at 1000 rpms but you can get it a little slower.  The CO adjustment tool might help a little.







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